I-Series belt cleaning units clogging up

[srvctec]

I decided to start a thread where maybe we can keep track of this. This thread (https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/konica-minolta/159740-c750i.html?highlight=#post1897506) is where I first saw mention of the issue right after I had the same issue on a C550i, the first time we've come across the issue.

Well, today I had a C360i in the field for 10 months with 26K on the meter with the same issue. I spent quite a bit of time trying to find out what caused it but came up with absolutely nothing. I was able to clean all the toner out of the cleaning unit and it seems fine now but not sure why it clogged up in the first place. I thought maybe when the belt was installed at the factory that maybe the shutter didn't open like it should, causing the cleaning unit to fill up. Upon further inspection of the Waste Toner Conveyance ASSY, it had toner in the entrance shutter. If the belt shutter never opened, there would be no toner there.

Then I removed the shutter assy above the Waste Toner Conveyance ASSY and below the belt to see if it was clogged and it had toner in it but wasn't clogged. Once I opened the bottom shutter, the toner just fell out. I even disassembled the Waste Toner Conveyance ASSY to see what might be the issue with it and didn't see anything abnormal. It did have an issue with turning hard and I had to remove the drive assy and lube the second gear with a tiny bit of grease to free it up.

Post if you have had the same issue and what you find if anything.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/fcead93eb23beaae63df24282c25fdb3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/1ad35cd5ead0f3f1d3577c8db047decc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/81275c25a0301ee2ef2c066f8a3bd56b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/0fd9b6836cfe2befcb05cda6652adb4b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/e9492a76daac8cd5bd800fbe3d24031a.jpg

[blackcat4866]

I've seen this sort of issue on a wide variety of Konica Minoltas, Toshibas, & some Kyoceras. The print engine layout is pretty similar.

The event sequence that I've noticed goes something like this:

Enduser runs low percentage of color (though I've seen it on the B&W versions of the same machines).
Normal color calibrations account for a relatively larger percentage of transfer waste at the far left side of the waste bottle.
Waste toner full detection is right of center.
The left side of the waste bottle fills to overfill, backing up into the spout, then the primary transfer cleaner.
Enduser sometimes complains of a thumping or screeching sound from the finisher end of the machine or "an internal error has occurred ... " and clears by itself ... or the enduser doesn't even notice.

Here is where the sequence varies:
Service Call

or Enduser changes the waste bottle, but the noise doesn't change, then service call.

If you get there and the waste bottle is overfull, or the waste bottle is new and overspray around the transfer waste, this fits with this scenario. If you find compressed chunks of toner, toner rocks, or hard toner coating on the inner surface of the spout, this fits with this scenario. You might also see primary transfer shift errors, crossfeed image blurrs, ripped transfer belts, registration patch and toner density patches on the prints, registration patch and toner density patch errors, spun gears (either spun on a "D" shaped shaft or broke the auger), and on Toshibas E011 paper jams (the transfer belt stops turning, stalling the paper at second transfer).

In very rare cases I've had customers mention in passing, some of these symptoms, and when they changed the waste bottle it resolved itself without service.

Does that sound like it? =^..^=

[jwai]

i remember there have modified waste toner bottle.

[copier tech]

I decided to start a thread where maybe we can keep track of this. This thread (https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/konica-minolta/159740-c750i.html?highlight=#post1897506) is where I first saw mention of the issue right after I had the same issue on a C550i, the first time we've come across the issue.

Well, today I had a C360i in the field for 10 months with 26K on the meter with the same issue. I spent quite a bit of time trying to find out what caused it but came up with absolutely nothing. I was able to clean all the toner out of the cleaning unit and it seems fine now but not sure why it clogged up in the first place. I thought maybe when the belt was installed at the factory that maybe the shutter didn't open like it should, causing the cleaning unit to fill up. Upon further inspection of the Waste Toner Conveyance ASSY, it had toner in the entrance shutter. If the belt shutter never opened, there would be no toner there.

Then I removed the shutter assy above the Waste Toner Conveyance ASSY and below the belt to see if it was clogged and it had toner in it but wasn't clogged. Once I opened the bottom shutter, the toner just fell out. I even disassembled the Waste Toner Conveyance ASSY to see what might be the issue with it and didn't see anything abnormal. It did have an issue with turning hard and I had to remove the drive assy and lube the second gear with a tiny bit of grease to free it up.

Post if you have had the same issue and what you find if anything.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/fcead93eb23beaae63df24282c25fdb3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/1ad35cd5ead0f3f1d3577c8db047decc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/81275c25a0301ee2ef2c066f8a3bd56b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/0fd9b6836cfe2befcb05cda6652adb4b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/e9492a76daac8cd5bd800fbe3d24031a.jpg

The waste looks totally black not the usual brown could one would expect.

What is the colour v black count ratio ?

[blackcat4866]

The waste looks totally black not the usual brown could one would expect.

What is the colour v black count ratio ? Sorta fits with my theory, yes?

[tsbservice]

Looking like sping with 33 coils to me from B0265 post.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211008/81275c25a0301ee2ef2c066f8a3bd56b.jpg

[rrrohan]

I thought the wtb had a mixing paddle to help evenly distribute toner.



Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[copier tech]

Sorta fits with my theory, yes?


Yes pretty much.

Konica do have history with developer being pulled into the waste box.

[srvctec]

I've seen this sort of issue on a wide variety of Konica Minoltas, Toshibas, & some Kyoceras. The print engine layout is pretty similar.

The event sequence that I've noticed goes something like this:

Enduser runs low percentage of color (though I've seen it on the B&W versions of the same machines).
Normal color calibrations account for a relatively larger percentage of transfer waste at the far left side of the waste bottle.
Waste toner full detection is right of center.
The left side of the waste bottle fills to overfill, backing up into the spout, then the primary transfer cleaner.
Enduser sometimes complains of a thumping or screeching sound from the finisher end of the machine or "an internal error has occurred ... " and clears by itself ... or the enduser doesn't even notice.

Here is where the sequence varies:
Service Call

or Enduser changes the waste bottle, but the noise doesn't change, then service call.

If you get there and the waste bottle is overfull, or the waste bottle is new and overspray around the transfer waste, this fits with this scenario. If you find compressed chunks of toner, toner rocks, or hard toner coating on the inner surface of the spout, this fits with this scenario. You might also see primary transfer shift errors, crossfeed image blurrs, ripped transfer belts, registration patch and toner density patches on the prints, registration patch and toner density patch errors, spun gears (either spun on a "D" shaped shaft or broke the auger), and on Toshibas E011 paper jams (the transfer belt stops turning, stalling the paper at second transfer).

In very rare cases I've had customers mention in passing, some of these symptoms, and when they changed the waste bottle it resolved itself without service.

Does that sound like it? =^..^=

Your theory sounds solid except there was hardly any toner at all in the waste box or the Waste Toner Conveyance ASSY and the WTB has never been changed.

Total count was 26,750. Black was 25,238 and color is only 1,512.

[blackcat4866]

How about the environment?

Is it in a small or overly hot room? Poor ventilation?
=^..^=

[srvctec]

How about the environment?

Is it in a small or overly hot room? Poor ventilation?
=^..^=

Perfect office environment. It was in the front office right behind the receptionist, until the day I serviced it last week when they moved it back to the server room. Not too warm or cold and no abnormal humidity.

[copyrooks]

I encountered my first one in the wild last week. Started as a noise complaint that was intermittent. Eventually pinpointed it with a help of a colleague. There was a big pile of toner/developer where the transfer belt cleaner unit sits when latched inside the copier. We ended up just replacing the belt and sent it in for a warranty claim. Copier had less than 60,000 clicks on it. We don't think the problem is fixed of course so we keeping an eye and ear out. If happens again might have to dig deep.

[Konicatech]

Had this exact same issue myself on a c250i a few months back, went like this:

1. Customer called in to say machine wouldnt print and was making a really loud grinding sound
2. I arrived on site and initially thought it was coming from the fuser, but removed the belt and could see that it would not turn by hand.
3. Removed cleaning mechanism and it was PACKED with toner, emptied this and cleaned machine and not heard from customer since.

Waste toner bottle was not full and machine is relatively low mileage - been installed for 9 months

[srvctec]

We just had another C550i do the same thing last week. I didn't get the call but the customer has only had the machine a couple months. That's about a 20% failure rate for us on these i-series machines getting the cleaning unit plugged up. Pretty ridiculous as far as I'm concerned. Never had any consistent belt issues like this on any other Minolta or KonicaMinolta machine. Hope they get it figured out soon because this is looking pretty bad.

[copytechtrouble]

Had this exact same issue myself on a c250i a few months back, went like this:

1. Customer called in to say machine wouldnt print and was making a really loud grinding sound
2. I arrived on site and initially thought it was coming from the fuser, but removed the belt and could see that it would not turn by hand.
3. Removed cleaning mechanism and it was PACKED with toner, emptied this and cleaned machine and not heard from customer since.

Waste toner bottle was not full and machine is relatively low mileage - been installed for 9 months


just wanted to confirm that i have had the EXACT same issue as this on a c250i.

[avecosat]

I also have several C250i with that problem. Is like the C360 series

[Hansoon]

Is like the C360 series

Never had any C-280/360 doing this but the C-253/353........ yes and YES!

Hans

[avecosat]

The problem was the same: intermittent noise and blockage of the transfer cleaning unit. KM told me that it was a problem of humidity and poor ventilation of the equipment.

[srvctec]

The problem was the same: intermittent noise and blockage of the transfer cleaning unit. KM told me that it was a problem of humidity and poor ventilation of the equipment.

Yeah, well they always blame stuff like this on something else other than poor engineering design. Also, since there never was a single problem of this happening on 4/4e/8 series that were in the exact same offices we now have i-series in, obviously the office environment ISN'T the issue. NONE of our i-series machines that have done this are in any weird environments where ventilation or humidity are an issue.

If this is happening worldwide then they need to get it fixed ASAP. We've already had a couple customers complain that a new machine shouldn't have a problem like this and of course I agree but can't really say anything except sorry for the trouble.

[Sysco]

Never had any C-280/360 doing this but the C-253/353........ yes and YES!

Hans

Yes, it was an old problem on the C220 series.
Noise when turning the waste toner box gear, but it can't move the stuck in toner pipe from the ITB to WTB.
In the C220 pull out the ITB, and you can find a screw which fixed the toner pipe.
After clean the pipe and it's ok for the next 2k pages.
Only 5 minutes work and done.
I hope same problem solving for the i series.

[mincopier]

Konica Minolta has a bulletin about the "Spiral Screw" on the waste toner box becoming dislodged or moved out of place. They say to "Form" the spiral gear into place with needle nose pliers.

This is mainly for noise but if it is out of place it could be a contributor to this problem for some.

[occus]

I decided to start a thread where maybe we can keep track of this. This thread (https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/konica-minolta/159740-c750i.html?highlight=#post1897506) is where I first saw mention of the issue right after I had the same issue on a C550i, the first time we've come across the issue.

Well, today I had a C360i in the field for 10 months with 26K on the meter with the same issue. I spent quite a bit of time trying to find out what caused it but came up with absolutely nothing. I was able to clean all the toner out of the cleaning unit and it seems fine now but not sure why it clogged up in the first place. I thought maybe when the belt was installed at the factory that maybe the shutter didn't open like it should, causing the cleaning unit to fill up. Upon further inspection of the Waste Toner Conveyance ASSY, it had toner in the entrance shutter. If the belt shutter never opened, there would be no toner there.

Then I removed the shutter assy above the Waste Toner Conveyance ASSY and below the belt to see if it was clogged and it had toner in it but wasn't clogged. Once I opened the bottom shutter, the toner just fell out. I even disassembled the Waste Toner Conveyance ASSY to see what might be the issue with it and didn't see anything abnormal. It did have an issue with turning hard and I had to remove the drive assy and lube the second gear with a tiny bit of grease to free it up.

Post if you have had the same issue and what you find if anything.



Is that the same noise you had? Front door open/close

https://youtu.be/-3plSf5igKM

History:
Delivered summer 2020
-after a while maybe 5000 prints customer calls me for a new waste toner box, on visit waste toner box is empty (how can the full allert pop up even the transparent plastic nose is total clear and empty... strange)
-changed the waste toner box, since this i had no calls.
-before a few days i was there to deliver toner and the customer tells me about noise, i checked error counter and made a few tests but i found nothing.
-yesterday the customer sends me a video with the noise.

The noise sounds for me like the problem of the old 220 Series... which we all know. So i expected hardened toner in the cleaning area of the belt and in the auger or in the hole waste toner transport way. But there was only normal toner soft and pulvered, from auger to waste toner.
The gears of the waste toner box and the conveyance assy turned easily.

Now what i have done:

I took out the expansions spring from the old waste toner box to compare with a new orange/blue dotted waste toner box, these were the same length. But why? Anyway i cuttet the spring a bit.

Remember the bulletin: (but i'm pretty shure factory date from this machine is older than the change of the cover)

Since the shape of a plastic cover near the Waste Toner Conveyance Unit
slotting area on the main body was changed, the front end of the conveyance
unit can get angled downwards more than before as it is installed. As a result,
the edge of the shutter may not hit the contact part on the main body side,
and the shutter will not open. When the Conveyance Unit and the Waste Toner
Box are installed together as one assy, this problem hardly occurs.

51951

>>so install waste toner box, take out the bundle together and install again as workaround.
Thanks for feedback.

[srvctec]

Is that the same noise you had? Front door open/close

https://youtu.be/-3plSf5igKM

History:
Delivered summer 2020
-after a while maybe 5000 prints customer calls me for a new waste toner box, on visit waste toner box is empty (how can the full allert pop up even the transparent plastic nose is total clear and empty... strange)
-changed the waste toner box, since this i had no calls.
-before a few days i was there to deliver toner and the customer tells me about noise, i checked error counter and made a few tests but i found nothing.
-yesterday the customer sends me a video with the noise.

The noise sounds for me like the problem of the old 220 Series... which we all know. So i expected hardened toner in the cleaning area of the belt and in the auger or in the hole waste toner transport way. But there was only normal toner soft and pulvered, from auger to waste toner.
The gears of the waste toner box and the conveyance assy turned easily.

Now what i have done:

I took out the expansions spring from the old waste toner box to compare with a new orange/blue dotted waste toner box, these were the same length. But why? Anyway i cuttet the spring a bit.

Remember the bulletin: (but i'm pretty shure factory date from this machine is older than the change of the cover)

Since the shape of a plastic cover near the Waste Toner Conveyance Unit
slotting area on the main body was changed, the front end of the conveyance
unit can get angled downwards more than before as it is installed. As a result,
the edge of the shutter may not hit the contact part on the main body side,
and the shutter will not open. When the Conveyance Unit and the Waste Toner
Box are installed together as one assy, this problem hardly occurs.

51951

>>so install waste toner box, take out the bundle together and install again as workaround.
Thanks for feedback.

That sounds a lot like it except it seems ours were making a faster cadence, almost double the speed of that video.

Sounds like your issue was a bit different than on all ours making that noise. It has always been a completely clogged up shutter pipe on the cleaning unit of the belt. It requires taking it apart and digging out the toner.