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JasonSBE
11-30-2021, 04:30 PM
This is a weird one for me. Installed a used c658 for a client and they're going through black toner very fast. I thought it was user error, but I went to the site this morning and the machine was down due to lack of toner. The K cart was bone dry. I put in a new oem cart and it ran a replenish cycle and started printing. The web ui only shows 20% of K in the supplies list. There's no pooling toner at the waste tank, though the tank does feel somewhat full(new tank at install time).


Anyone seen anything like this? The tcr for k in level 1 history is about where it should be..... 6.65% and copy quality is good.

tsbservice
11-30-2021, 07:35 PM
When you install machine how much K toner was inside or you've put brand new at this time?

JasonSBE
11-30-2021, 08:29 PM
When you install machine how much K toner was inside or you've put brand new at this time?

At the time of install it was a used cart. Roughly 45% in the cart. My user has changed for new carts 4 times since then and I put a new cart in today as well. After auto replenish the supply level was 20%

copier tech
11-30-2021, 08:34 PM
This is a weird one for me. Installed a used c658 for a client and they're going through black toner very fast. I thought it was user error, but I went to the site this morning and the machine was down due to lack of toner. The K cart was bone dry. I put in a new oem cart and it ran a replenish cycle and started printing. The web ui only shows 20% of K in the supplies list. There's no pooling toner at the waste tank, though the tank does feel somewhat full(new tank at install time).


Anyone seen anything like this? The tcr for k in level 1 history is about where it should be..... 6.65% and copy quality is good.

The simple question here is how many prints has the machine done since you installed it?

tsbservice
11-30-2021, 08:46 PM
The simple question here is how many prints has the machine done since you installed it?


He seems to omit specification. We may guess or pull that. It's simply plain wrong after installation of new toner it will read 20% left.

JasonSBE
11-30-2021, 10:38 PM
The simple question here is how many prints has the machine done since you installed it?


They are doing roughly 5k black and 3k color a week. As already stated, a brand new oem cart was installed when toner showed 0%, and after running a toner add routine the k shows 20% available. At least 5 full carts have been used in the last 4 to 5 weeks

copyman
12-01-2021, 02:14 AM
You can't depend on the accuracy of what the machine shows as % left. And those toner gauges on screen are very inaccurate! See how many pages you get out of this new btl just installed no matter what % machine shows. If you get around 20-25K pages be happy, machine is working fine:)

JasonSBE
12-01-2021, 02:20 AM
You can't depend on the accuracy of what the machine shows as % left. And those toner gauges on screen are very inaccurate! See how many pages you get out of this new btl just installed no matter what % machine shows. If you get around 20-25K pages be happy, machine is working fine:)


Dude......

Woxner
12-01-2021, 02:50 AM
This happens when dev unit is falling. Had customers complain of toner usage. Change dev unit and it stopped.
If the bottle seems full it could be toner and some dev. Calibration could be sucking it down. So try replacing dev unit

JasonSBE
12-01-2021, 03:17 AM
This happens when dev unit is falling. Had customers complain of toner usage. Change dev unit and it stopped.
If the bottle seems full it could be toner and some dev. Calibration could be sucking it down. So try replacing dev unit

I actually brought a dev unit to the site today bug I didn't change it when I saw the toner percentage only go up to 20% with a fresh cart. Konica support suggested the sub hopper. Even with the cart not showing full do you still think the developer could be the culprit?

Woxner
12-01-2021, 03:39 AM
If you pull the cart and it fells pretty empty go with dev unit. Sub hopper may be secondary issue on level.

copyman
12-01-2021, 05:18 AM
Can't see how dev unit would be bad with State confirmation showing 6.65% and good print quality?

copyman
12-01-2021, 05:19 AM
DUDE! Can't see how dev unit would be bad with State confirmation showing 6.65% and good print.

Forget the % and see what the page yield is with new btl.

Albonline
12-01-2021, 03:03 PM
This happens when dev unit is falling. Had customers complain of toner usage. Change dev unit and it stopped.
If the bottle seems full it could be toner and some dev. Calibration could be sucking it down. So try replacing dev unit


with a new, not used unit. to reset life count and hv settings.

tsbservice
12-01-2021, 04:57 PM
This happens when dev unit is falling. Had customers complain of toner usage. Change dev unit and it stopped.
If the bottle seems full it could be toner and some dev. Calibration could be sucking it down. So try replacing dev unit
Does it have other symptoms together with toner hunger?

emujo2
12-01-2021, 09:26 PM
What is the current toner coverage percentage? These bottle ratings are based on 6% 1 sided..If you are running 11x17 1 click you can cut that in 1/2, and a rule of thumb for me (based on production machines, not in anyway saying this is fact) every 4-5% of coverage will drop the coverage by 1/2 again. A week is pretty fast to run through toner, especially at 5K/week. You might want to run a job and pull the black drum out..see if the edge delete lamp is working, or the discharge wire is doing it's job..Maybe the blade is just scraping off all the excess toner and it doesn't know any better. E

JasonSBE
12-02-2021, 08:22 PM
I swapped the machine out and brought it back go the shop. The waste tank was primarily full of black. Vacuumed out the hopper and put in a new developer. The drum was recently changed out. The toner is showing 2% but the cart is still about half full so its definately running itself out even when the machine is idle. Did a manual toner add and that went normal. I'm gonna leave it idle over the weekend and see if it runs through the bottle or operates as it should. If it's still running through toner I suppose the sub hopper and high voltage board will be the next things to consider.

tsbservice
12-02-2021, 08:36 PM
Machine is sucking toner into wtb. Forget about wrong toner reading this as already mentioned is secondary issue. I would put new wtb in and run a thousand test prints checking dev unit and tcr level at every 2 hundred prints. Also check if erase leds are doing their job. Let us know.

copyman
12-02-2021, 11:28 PM
I swapped the machine out and brought it back go the shop. The waste tank was primarily full of black. Vacuumed out the hopper and put in a new developer. The drum was recently changed out. The toner is showing 2% but the cart is still about half full so its definately running itself out even when the machine is idle. Did a manual toner add and that went normal. I'm gonna leave it idle over the weekend and see if it runs through the bottle or operates as it should. If it's still running through toner I suppose the sub hopper and high voltage board will be the next things to consider.

When you say you put in new developer, did you replace just the dev powder with aftermarket or new OEM dev unit? If aftermarket you have to consider that being problem. Even if you have a used "OEM" dev unit to try it will take that out of the mix. First thing I always do if a new customer is using aftermarket supplies with quality issues is I tell them I have to start fresh with new "OEM" supplies. The reason 99% of my customers use OEM toner is I don't want the guess work when they call for print quality issues.

Maybe it was asked already are you using aftermarket toner?

Really strange that state confirmation is showing correct reading and print quality good with machine blowing through toner like that. To eat that much toner that fast there would have to be a thick coating on drum at some point and cleaned off with drum blade into waste box.

Think you may be on the right track with high voltage problem if nothing else corrects it. Perhaps something like HV not turning off when suppose to, etc

Thanks for keeping us posted. Since this is such an odd issue would like to hear what caused it.

Good luck

robinsonad86
12-03-2021, 10:21 AM
Just out of interest Konica aren't supplying "half bottles" for this range are they?

copyman
12-03-2021, 01:06 PM
Just out of interest Konica aren't supplying "half bottles" for this range are they?

Thought I read something about K/M putting less toner in btls because of toner shortage? Hope they don't charge same price for it!

Original poster probably would of felt if bottle just half filled.

Still curious if using aftermarket developer & toner? Think this has to be considered as problem.

emujo2
12-03-2021, 01:17 PM
Thought I read something about K/M putting less toner in btls because of toner shortage? Hope they don't charge same price for it!

Original poster probably would of felt if bottle just half filled.

Still curious if using aftermarket developer & toner? Think this has to be considered as problem.

These 1/2 bottles are supposed to be only for customers that run very low AMV..and as most customers are contracted the price is not a factor. E

kingarthur
12-03-2021, 03:12 PM
Thought I read something about K/M putting less toner in btls because of toner shortage? Hope they don't charge same price for it!

Original poster probably would of felt if bottle just half filled.

Still curious if using aftermarket developer & toner? Think this has to be considered as problem.

Yes, they're supplying half bottles, the part number ends in an "H", and there's a blue dot on the box, but the toner situation seems to be resolving itself, as supplies now seem to be getting through

JasonSBE
12-03-2021, 06:52 PM
When you say you put in new developer, did you replace just the dev powder with aftermarket or new OEM dev unit? If aftermarket you have to consider that being problem. Even if you have a used "OEM" dev unit to try it will take that out of the mix. First thing I always do if a new customer is using aftermarket supplies with quality issues is I tell them I have to start fresh with new "OEM" supplies. The reason 99% of my customers use OEM toner is I don't want the guess work when they call for print quality issues.

Maybe it was asked already are you using aftermarket toner?

Really strange that state confirmation is showing correct reading and print quality good with machine blowing through toner like that. To eat that much toner that fast there would have to be a thick coating on drum at some point and cleaned off with drum blade into waste box.

Think you may be on the right track with high voltage problem if nothing else corrects it. Perhaps something like HV not turning off when suppose to, etc

Thanks for keeping us posted. Since this is such an odd issue would like to hear what caused it.

Good luck


I put in a new OEM developing unit. We have both OEM and after market toner. This machine has only had OEM black toner so far.

Synaux
12-03-2021, 07:30 PM
On the topic of toner, it is my understanding the the shortages are not actually do to lack of toner but lack of chips (at least that I what I have been told).

On the topic, I still think the coverage rate is still a valid question. Anything over 5% and you will not get the proper yield of only 28k (as opposed to nearly 50k on the predecessor).

What about PQ on halftone and gradation tests on 12x18"?

Power Standby settings?

suomi
12-04-2021, 04:47 PM
Konica Minolta Supplies Tatsuno Factory Resumes Production | KONICA MINOLTA (https://www.konicaminolta.com/global/newsroom/2021/1108-01-01.html)

JasonSBE
12-07-2021, 09:20 PM
Quick update. I've run several hundred lattice patterns and left the machine idling for a few days. Toner level still showing 2% but the bottle still feels about half full. No excessive waste toner so far. I'm still going to run the bottle down to empty and put in a new oem cart and see if the level shows 100%. Tcr density is staying level.

JasonSBE
12-08-2021, 05:30 PM
Quick update 2. I've been running thick lattice patterns to try to run down the toner. Supply level stayed at 2% but the cart was getting lighter. After 1800 or so, the orange light finally started flashing. Replace k toner. Supply level got to 1%, and the cart felt empty. Put in fresh oem cart and Supply reset to 100%! I'm gonna test a bit more before I bring it back to site but this is promising.

tsbservice
12-08-2021, 05:46 PM
Quick update 2. I've been running thick lattice patterns to try to run down the toner. Supply level stayed at 2% but the cart was getting lighter. After 1800 or so, the orange light finally started flashing. Replace k toner. Supply level got to 1%, and the cart felt empty. Put in fresh oem cart and Supply reset to 100%! I'm gonna test a bit more before I bring it back to site but this is promising.
Just in case you didn't know - on these there are dip switches to reset toner levels.

JasonSBE
12-08-2021, 08:15 PM
Just in case you didn't know - on these there are dip switches to reset toner levels.

I did not know. Could you please elaborate?

tsbservice
12-08-2021, 08:32 PM
I did not know. Could you please elaborate?

31: Y 32: M 33: C 34: K

dacam20590
12-08-2021, 11:01 PM
31: Y 32: M 33: C 34: K
on these there are dip switches to reset toner levels.Can you tell me more about how to fix this?

JasonSBE
12-09-2021, 11:21 PM
31: Y 32: M 33: C 34: K


I looked in the service manual, and switch 33 references expert adjustment and list counter in administrator mode, not toner levels.....

tsbservice
12-10-2021, 07:09 AM
I looked in the service manual, and switch 33 references expert adjustment and list counter in administrator mode, not toner levels.....
Dude...it's not even listed in manual, they're DIP SW not Soft SW!
Just in case you didn't know - on these there are dip switches to reset toner levels.
51050

JasonSBE
12-12-2021, 04:45 PM
Dude...it's not even listed in manual, they're DIP SW not Soft SW!
51050
Thank you for clarifying that. After I ran the bottle down and put in a new one, it quickly dropped back to 20%. I took the bottle out, ran the machine until it quit and demanded toner, set the dip switch and rebooted machine. Put the bottle back in and it set back to 100% and is moving down at an expected rate. I'm going to keep testing and make sure that it's depleting normally.

Synaux
01-06-2022, 04:50 AM
Thank you for clarifying that. After I ran the bottle down and put in a new one, it quickly dropped back to 20%. I took the bottle out, ran the machine until it quit and demanded toner, set the dip switch and rebooted machine. Put the bottle back in and it set back to 100% and is moving down at an expected rate. I'm going to keep testing and make sure that it's depleting normally.
Over the years, I have just learned to not trust the toner level on KMs they just never seem to be very accurate.
The c650s series were horrendous about not resetting the levels. For a while I would leave a sticky note with the date replaced and meter, but stopped doing that just really wasn't useful. I gave up and just ran them until they were dry.
Good idea taking the bottle out (I am too cheap to waste the toner though :rolleyes:).

Hansoon
01-06-2022, 05:04 AM
Just in case you didn't know - on these there are dip switches to reset toner levels.

Not knowing this machine YET, could you please PM me where to find those DIP-Switches please?

Hans

tsbservice
01-06-2022, 06:33 AM
Not knowing this machine YET, could you please PM me where to find those DIP-Switches please?

Hans
Done :)

Hansoon
01-06-2022, 06:45 AM
Thanks!

Hans

JasonSBE
01-13-2022, 05:33 PM
Just to update, the toner level was dropping as expected but when I changed the cartridge it dipped to 20% again. Ended up changing the sub hopper as recommended by KM support, and it's been acting right. Put the machine back in service.

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