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xdelios
01-26-2022, 05:40 PM
Hello to everyone,

To clarify I am not a professional regarding copiers, I simply use some KM machines because clients use them and I do provide the consumables to them.

I personally use a C253 which for me honestly it has been a great machine so far.

Now to my issue, few days ago I replaced the transfer belt with a brand new one. Everything good there.

I also remanufactured the black IU my self, adding new drum with blade and developer. Chip was changed as well.

After making the change I got some p21 warnings and c2558 errors which I think I solved cause I removed the idc sensors and cleaned them. Did not have the same issue again.

I starting having jams at my 1st tray though after I changed the IU. I thought this can't be a coincidence but what the heck I'll change the feed rollers since I had a sealed set already. Did the swap.

Nothing changed though. It's very weird, because it's jamming literally every time and it's not even picking up paper. I mean not jammig between the rollers or anything.
I thought maybe the motor but what are the chances really...

I hope my English make sense so you can understand my sissue.
Any ideas and suggestion would be much appreciated

Thank you in advance

Synthohol
01-26-2022, 06:49 PM
Please post the jam code although I'm almost sure it's the one way bearings based on history of the machine.

tsbservice
01-26-2022, 08:16 PM
Hello to everyone,

To clarify I am not a professional regarding copiers, I simply use some KM machines because clients use them and I do provide the consumables to them.

I personally use a C253 which for me honestly it has been a great machine so far.

Now to my issue, few days ago I replaced the transfer belt with a brand new one. Everything good there.

I also remanufactured the black IU my self, adding new drum with blade and developer. Chip was changed as well.

After making the change I got some p21 warnings and c2558 errors which I think I solved cause I removed the idc sensors and cleaned them. Did not have the same issue again.

I starting having jams at my 1st tray though after I changed the IU. I thought this can't be a coincidence but what the heck I'll change the feed rollers since I had a sealed set already. Did the swap.

Nothing changed though. It's very weird, because it's jamming literally every time and it's not even picking up paper. I mean not jammig between the rollers or anything.
I thought maybe the motor but what are the chances really...

I hope my English make sense so you can understand my sissue.
Any ideas and suggestion would be much appreciated

Thank you in advance

What about tray 2? As a test swap rollers and oneways/torque limiter between 2 trays.

copyman
01-27-2022, 02:23 AM
Hello to everyone,

To clarify I am not a professional regarding copiers, I simply use some KM machines because clients use them and I do provide the consumables to them.

I personally use a C253 which for me honestly it has been a great machine so far.

Now to my issue, few days ago I replaced the transfer belt with a brand new one. Everything good there.

I also remanufactured the black IU my self, adding new drum with blade and developer. Chip was changed as well.

After making the change I got some p21 warnings and c2558 errors which I think I solved cause I removed the idc sensors and cleaned them. Did not have the same issue again.

I starting having jams at my 1st tray though after I changed the IU. I thought this can't be a coincidence but what the heck I'll change the feed rollers since I had a sealed set already. Did the swap.

Nothing changed though. It's very weird, because it's jamming literally every time and it's not even picking up paper. I mean not jammig between the rollers or anything.
I thought maybe the motor but what are the chances really...

I hope my English make sense so you can understand my sissue.
Any ideas and suggestion would be much appreciated

Thank you in advance

If it was a motor it would throw a code. Do you hear it trying to feed paper. Sometimes it's hard to tell, you can remove paper tray and mark rollers to see if moving.

The black unit sits above tray one feed rollers so maybe some toner dropped onto rollers so I would still look at the paper feed. The black IU has nothing to do with a feeding issue so rule that out.

You said you aren't a tech so wanted to mentioned since those paper feed units have to be disassembled to replace the rollers perhaps you missed something, like making sure pick up roller is dropping down. It's easy to miss putting the lever "under" the plastic piece which gives spring to the pick up rollers. Did you clean one ways with alcohol & scuff up the shaft where the one way sits?

xdelios
01-27-2022, 08:18 AM
Please post the jam code although I'm almost sure it's the one way bearings based on history of the machine.

I suppose I can find that in the service mode. Could you tell me where do I find that?
Sorry for the silly question , I honestly do not know though.


What about tray 2? As a test swap rollers and oneways/torque limiter between 2 trays.
Tray 2 was always jamming from the moment I got the machine so I never touched it to be honest.


If it was a motor it would throw a code. Do you hear it trying to feed paper. Sometimes it's hard to tell, you can remove paper tray and mark rollers to see if moving.

The black unit sits above tray one feed rollers so maybe some toner dropped onto rollers so I would still look at the paper feed. The black IU has nothing to do with a feeding issue so rule that out.

You said you aren't a tech so wanted to mentioned since those paper feed units have to be disassembled to replace the rollers perhaps you missed something, like making sure pick up roller is dropping down. It's easy to miss putting the lever "under" the plastic piece which gives spring to the pick up rollers. Did you clean one ways with alcohol & scuff up the shaft where the one way sits?

I will try marking the rollers and ser if they are moving, I did not think of that.
I inserted the lever as it should be , I was aware of that so I did not miss it.

I did not clean the one ways , to be honest I am not aware at what you are reffering to.
Could you give me the PN of the item you are talking about so I can see it in the service manual?

Thank you all for taking the time.

xdelios
01-27-2022, 09:37 AM
Please post the jam code although I'm almost sure it's the one way bearings based on history of the machine.

Found it the error code is 1101

xdelios
01-27-2022, 10:35 AM
If it was a motor it would throw a code. Do you hear it trying to feed paper. Sometimes it's hard to tell, you can remove paper tray and mark rollers to see if moving.

The black unit sits above tray one feed rollers so maybe some toner dropped onto rollers so I would still look at the paper feed. The black IU has nothing to do with a feeding issue so rule that out.

You said you aren't a tech so wanted to mentioned since those paper feed units have to be disassembled to replace the rollers perhaps you missed something, like making sure pick up roller is dropping down. It's easy to miss putting the lever "under" the plastic piece which gives spring to the pick up rollers. Did you clean one ways with alcohol & scuff up the shaft where the one way sits?

The rollers are spinning normally I checked.
The thing is the jam is not happening between the rollers, meaning the paper does not actually leave the tray.

I checked the lift motor its working fine.
I guess it those "one ways" that I have no idea what it is I am looking for to be honest.

blackcat4866
01-27-2022, 03:02 PM
Start with some new rollers. Better yet, two full sets (do tray two also).

For each tray you'll want (3) A00J 5636 00 (or a total of 6 for both trays).
Don't waste you're time on the generic substitutes. You'll get ~30% yield compared to the originals.

Soak one-way bearings in alcohol, dry, then add a drop of light oil to each one-way bearing. The one-way bearings are black colored cylinders in line with the feed rollers. I think I have an illustration:

51677
=^..^=

xdelios
01-27-2022, 03:34 PM
Start with some new rollers. Better yet, two full sets (do tray two also).

For each tray you'll want (3) A00J 5636 00 (or a total of 6 for both trays).
Don't waste you're time on the generic substitutes. You'll get ~30% yield compared to the originals.

Soak one-way bearings in alcohol, dry, then add a drop of light oil to each one-way bearing. The one-way bearings are black colored cylinders in line with the feed rollers. I think I have an illustration:

51677
=^..^=

Hello,

Thank you the image helps a lot.
I have installed brand new unsed rollers so in that part I am good I suppose.
I also installed new clutches since I had those sealed as well.

I will do what you suggested with the one-way bearings.
HOpe this works I will update the thread.

Thank you

femaster
01-27-2022, 05:42 PM
Hello,

Thank you the image helps a lot.
I have installed brand new unsed rollers so in that part I am good I suppose.
I also installed new clutches since I had those sealed as well.

I will do what you suggested with the one-way bearings.
HOpe this works I will update the thread.

Thank you

There are many opinions on the forum here about the one way bearings. The whole point of them is to spin freely in one direction and grab the shaft securely in the other direction. You can use your own discretion here, but I personally clean them and don't oil. I don't feel like something that needs to grab securely should have oil on it to make things slippery. I also use a mild abrasive, like a scotch bright pad (green colored), to scuff up the metal shaft where the one way rides. The shaft gets a mirror like finish from the bearing turning on it, which makes the shaft slippery. Scuffing the shaft under the bearing gives it something to grab onto. You don't want to carve up the metal shaft, but just a light scuffing to the point where the shaft is no longer reflective, but dull looking.

Good luck.

xdelios
01-27-2022, 06:07 PM
Start with some new rollers. Better yet, two full sets (do tray two also).

For each tray you'll want (3) A00J 5636 00 (or a total of 6 for both trays).
Don't waste you're time on the generic substitutes. You'll get ~30% yield compared to the originals.

Soak one-way bearings in alcohol, dry, then add a drop of light oil to each one-way bearing. The one-way bearings are black colored cylinders in line with the feed rollers. I think I have an illustration:

51677

=^..^=


Hello again,

just to clarify there is 1 x one way bearing or am I missing something?

Thank you

tsbservice
01-27-2022, 06:10 PM
There are 2 of them one on pickup roller and one on feed, sep roller has torque limiter.

xdelios
01-27-2022, 06:19 PM
There are 2 of them one on pickup roller and one on feed, sep roller has torque limiter.

Hello,

Thank you for your fast reply.
To clarify on the feed roller its the white plastic ?
And on feed roller its the black one that is hold in place by a small metallic shaft?

Do I undesrtand correctly that those 2 are the ones ?

Thank you and sorry for the newbie questions just wanna be sure.

tsbservice
01-27-2022, 06:54 PM
Hello,

Thank you for your fast reply.
To clarify on the feed roller its the white plastic ?
And on feed roller its the black one that is hold in place by a small metallic shaft?

Do I undesrtand correctly that those 2 are the ones ?

Thank you and sorry for the newbie questions just wanna be sure.

This is oneway clutch: see picture
Konica Minolta A02E561100 (A02E-5611-00) Clutch, Genuine (M5085) (https://www.precisionroller.com/a02e561100-for-konica-minolta/details_pn_74445.html)

xdelios
01-27-2022, 08:39 PM
This is oneway clutch: see picture
Konica Minolta A02E561100 (A02E-5611-00) Clutch, Genuine (M5085) (https://www.precisionroller.com/a02e561100-for-konica-minolta/details_pn_74445.html)

Ah ok then its weird because I installed new clutches on both the rollers.

I haven't oiled anything though.
I got 2 new original clutches like in your picture and and replaced the old ones.

Still having jams though.

tsbservice
01-27-2022, 08:42 PM
Ah ok then its weird because I installed new clutches on both the rollers.

I haven't oiled anything though.
I got 2 new original clutches like in your picture and and replaced the old ones.

Still having jams though.

Then mark rollers as advised by copyman and see if they rotate at all. Electromagnetic clutch at the back of feed unit may fail too.

copyman
01-28-2022, 12:10 AM
Hello again,

just to clarify there is 1 x one way bearing or am I missing something?

Thank you

Think you confirmed the rollers are turning. Can you post a few pictures of the feed unit. Will compare with one in shop.

My vote is NO oil on the one ways. Just clean with alcohol and scuff up the shaft where one way bearings contact it. I've literally done over 1,000 of these rollers and never once have I had an issue with one ways.

I use to replace the one ways automatically but can't remember last time I replaced one. Cleaning & scuffing always works!

Hansoon
01-28-2022, 02:10 AM
There are many opinions on the forum here about the one way bearings. The whole point of them is to spin freely in one direction and grab the shaft securely in the other direction. You can use your own discretion here, but I personally clean them and don't oil. I don't feel like something the needs to grab securely should have oil on it to make things slippery. I also use a mild abrasive, like a scotch bright pad (green colored), to scuff up the metal shaft where the one way rides. The shaft gets a mirror like finish from the bearing turning on it, which makes the shaft slippery. Scuffing the shaft under the bearing gives it something to grab onto. You don't want to carve up the metal shaft, but just a light scuffing to the point where the shaft is no longer reflective, but dull looking.

Good luck.

+1

I have the one-ways in stock but I NEVER felt the need to change them. Cleaning with alcohol or brake cleaner for the plastic ones + VERY little light oil for the old full metal ones. BUT....... scuffing op the shaft as suggested is mandatory!

Hans

xdelios
01-28-2022, 04:33 PM
Hello,

So here is an update.
I got the rollers out cleaned the one ways with alcohol and did "rub" the metal shaft to make it have a grip a bit. All good there.

It does not work still.
I removed the bypass and tray 2 to have a better visual from the side.

It seems that the rollers aren't moving after all, I was wrong.
I made sure that the plastic at the end of the tray 1 touches the actuator from the feed assembly as it should, that is fine.

The one thing I noticed is now the paper is not lifted.
This seems very weird too me because I am very sure it was working.

The metal shaft an the lift mechanism at the end of the tray is not getting into the motor. I dont know if it should or not I just spotted that.
I am attaching a picture so you can see.
Now I am suspecting that this is the issue, it just seems strange because at the start of my problem paper was lifting normally. On a sidenote I was also using half a ream to make sure the weight wasnt a problem.

51698

srvctec
01-28-2022, 04:42 PM
Hello,

So here is an update.
I got the rollers out cleaned the one ways with alcohol and did "rub" the metal shaft to make it have a grip a bit. All good there.

It does not work still.
I removed the bypass and tray 2 to have a better visual from the side.

It seems that the rollers aren't moving after all, I was wrong.
I made sure that the plastic at the end of the tray 1 touches the actuator from the feed assembly as it should, that is fine.

The one thing I noticed is now the paper is not lifted.
This seems very weird too me because I am very sure it was working.

The metal shaft an the lift mechanism at the end of the tray is not getting into the motor. I dont know if it should or not I just spotted that.
I am attaching a picture so you can see.
Now I am suspecting that this is the issue, it just seems strange because at the start of my problem paper was lifting normally. On a sidenote I was also using half a ream to make sure the weight wasnt a problem.

51698

It appears that the pin in the lift shaft has hit a high spot on the white cam that is spring loaded. If the lift motor turns, it then allows the pin on the shaft to "fall" into one of the low spots of the cam, then lifting up the paper lift plate. So, I'd replace the lift motor if it's not lifting and that pin never winds up in the cog like it should (which would mean the lift motor isn't turning).

xdelios
01-28-2022, 04:57 PM
It appears that the pin in the lift shaft has hit a high spot on the white cam that is spring loaded. If the lift motor turns, it then allows the pin on the shaft to "fall" into one of the low spots of the cam, then lifting up the paper lift plate. So, I'd replace the lift motor if it's not lifting and that in never winds up in the cog like it should (which would mean the lift motor isn't turning).


Hello,

If I understand correctly this little metal shaft should be inside the white wheel yes ?
That is a motor problem or is the plastic endpoint from the lift lever somehow misplaced ?

srvctec
01-28-2022, 05:09 PM
Hello,

If I understand correctly this little metal shaft should be inside the white wheel yes ?
That is a motor problem or is the plastic endpoint from the lift lever somehow misplaced ?

If the little metal shaft doesn't go into the white plastic and the tray is all the way in the machine, most likely the lift motor assy. (it's all encased in a black plastic housing as a unit and turns the white plastic part) needs replaced.

tsbservice
01-28-2022, 06:34 PM
I would closely examine tray plastics around metal pin it may be cracked.

copyman
01-29-2022, 01:39 PM
Let me know if you end up needing parts. I still have 3 working C253's getting closer to the door & dumpster. Will only ship to USA address.

Synthohol
01-29-2022, 02:16 PM
just another thought, check the paper set sensor in service mode. it may think the tray is already lifted.
compare all the 1s and 0s between tray sensors. maybe one is bad.
reseat the connectors for the tray, maybe a bent pin.
if you take the paper out, does the tray show ready anyway?

xdelios
01-30-2022, 08:48 AM
I would closely examine tray plastics around metal pin it may be cracked.

The tray has a small crack at the back since the day I got it but I assumed that cannot be the problem since it was literally from the first day I used the machine, and I am not slamming the tray hard when closing it just to be safe.


just another thought, check the paper set sensor in service mode. it may think the tray is already lifted.
compare all the 1s and 0s between tray sensors. maybe one is bad.
reseat the connectors for the tray, maybe a bent pin.
if you take the paper out, does the tray show ready anyway?

Ok so I tested what you said and that is exactly what happens.
The tray shows ready even without paper in it. What sensor am I looking for though , where is that located?

Thank you for your time all, I really appreciate it.

Synthohol
01-30-2022, 11:57 AM
check part #7 and both #13s
you can check in sensor check in service mode.
https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/attachments/konica-minolta/51721d1643543840-c253-jamming-instantly-713-jpg

xdelios
01-30-2022, 12:13 PM
check part #7 and both #13s
you can check in sensor check in service mode.
https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/attachments/konica-minolta/51721d1643543840-c253-jamming-instantly-713-jpg

Hello,

I have already checked those.
Part 7 is in place just fine I did not touch that.

I cleaned both 13s with a q-tip to make sure they got nothing that maybe is blocking the sensor.
Still the same.

I attach bellow a picture of the sensor while I have tray 1 installed and empty.
If I understand correctly the sensor thinks the tray is has paper and if I put sheets in it does not lift anything, I change the motor so that is not the problem for sure.

51722

Synthohol
01-30-2022, 12:22 PM
tray 1 shows upper limit as a 1. should be a zero if empty i believe.

xdelios
01-30-2022, 12:30 PM
tray 1 shows upper limit as a 1. should be a zero if empty i believe.


I was looking at paper empty to be honest.
Still the upper limit does not change even I remove tray.

Is this part 8? Again all these seem to be in place so that should not be a problem I suppose.

Synthohol
01-30-2022, 12:39 PM
ps8 part#13 is the upper limit sensor

xdelios
01-30-2022, 01:05 PM
ps8 part#13 is the upper limit sensor


I took a sensor from the tray 2 I had, which was recognising fine when tray was empty or not and replaced the part 13 fully along with the ps8.
Still the same results.

Synthohol
01-30-2022, 03:15 PM
check the main connector(s) to the frame, maybe a bent pin?
use a meter and see if the 0/5v comes from the sensor when blocked and unblocked.

tsbservice
01-30-2022, 03:26 PM
check the main connector(s) to the frame, maybe a bent pin?
use a meter and see if the 0/5v comes from the sensor when blocked and unblocked.
May be even tiny piece of paper into connector.

blackcat4866
01-30-2022, 03:58 PM
I don't know if it's pertinent, but there's something bent ... maybe a frame member ... here in this photo:

51724

=^..^=

xdelios
01-30-2022, 04:22 PM
I don't know if it's pertinent, but there's something bent ... maybe a frame member ... here in this photo:

51724

=^..^=

Nice eye!
Yeah that was bent because a small plastic piece that was holding that under they tray broke off.
I saw that today my self while I was trying many things.

I replaced that bent thing with the one from the tray 2 that was basically unused by me and was ok.
I also place a small screw and a bolt in the place that plastic "stop" was in order to keep this steady.

You think that has anything to do with the problem here?
ideally if I had another tray to try I could eliminate the tray as a problem.

All I have though is tray 2 which is different from tray 1 and can't really find a spare one around here.
I am in Greece btw.

tsbservice
01-30-2022, 05:09 PM
Hello,

I have already checked those.
Part 7 is in place just fine I did not touch that.

I cleaned both 13s with a q-tip to make sure they got nothing that maybe is blocking the sensor.
Still the same.

I attach bellow a picture of the sensor while I have tray 1 installed and empty.
If I understand correctly the sensor thinks the tray is has paper and if I put sheets in it does not lift anything, I change the motor so that is not the problem for sure.

51722

According to manual you have problem with TRAY 1 paper empty sensor - should be 1(for paper empty) not zero(0).
Upper limit sensor is good - should be 1(at raised position). I would swap it with some of tray 2 sensors.
It is PS7(position 13 from manual)

Synthohol
01-30-2022, 05:50 PM
but the tray never rises so it should be at 0 no?

tsbservice
01-30-2022, 05:58 PM
but the tray never rises so it should be at 0 no?
If tray is really down yes, that probaly would mean both PS7 and PS8 are bad(not quite likely) so next would be damaged wiring(number 5).

xdelios
01-30-2022, 06:13 PM
If tray is really down yes, that probaly would mean both PS7 and PS8 are bad(not quite likely) so next would be damaged wiring(number 5).

I will try the ps7 tomorrow to be safe.
Other than that how could the wiring go bad seems strange to me. Anyway does the wiring has a PN so I that I could search for a replacement?

Also the tray is actually down and not lifted..maybe because the ps7 is giving wrong status that confuses the upper limit sensor ? I am just sharing what I am thinking , I don't actually know if that is possible.

tsbservice
01-30-2022, 06:17 PM
I will try the ps7 tomorrow to be safe.
Other than that how could the wiring go bad seems strange to me. Anyway does the wiring has a PN so I that I could search for a replacement?

Also the tray is actually down and not lifted..maybe because the ps7 is giving wrong status that confuses the upper limit sensor ? I am just sharing what I am thinking , I don't actually know if that is possible.

I added excerpt from service manual to my post - paper empty sensor showing zero means paper present, which is not the case in any way.

xdelios
01-30-2022, 06:22 PM
I added excerpt from service manual to my post - paper empty sensor showing zero means paper present, which is not the case in any way.


Thank you I saw that.
That implies both ps7 and ps8 are reporting wrong values.
I will try the ps7 and get to you.

Will try and examine the wiring as well if there is something obvious at least.

tsbservice
01-30-2022, 06:34 PM
Thank you I saw that.
That implies both ps7 and ps8 are reporting wrong values.
I will try the ps7 and get to you.

Will try and examine the wiring as well if there is something obvious at least.
This is old but good machine and I will be more than happy after all efforts You made it works as it should.
Greetings - not many endusers show patitience and follow techs advices :)

DelawareJim
01-31-2022, 12:13 AM
Hello Greece! If your tires are not turning, please be advised there is a little teeny tiny pin located in each steel shaft and behind the 1-way bearing. On your parts diagram, look at part number 17. Critical, each 1-way bearing has one. It's very easy to have one drop out when you are putting on the 1-way bearing. This will cause the tire not to turn. So make sure the pin is in place, then slide the 1-way bearing into it, then slide the tire onto the shaft and secure with the C-clip.
For the paper not lifting properly, wouldn't the copier time out and then give a service code? During the lift up process, you should be able to hear the paper lift motor trying to lift up the paper. After so many seconds, you should get a code I thought.

xdelios
02-01-2022, 05:59 AM
So finally its working properly.

To be honest I haven't figured what it was.
I changed the PS7 with one sensor from the unused tray2 and tried that, it did not work.

I started following the entire cable to see if there was any weird bends or scratches but still nothing.
So what I did is completely removed the unit, cleaned everything with q-tips and used a blower to clean the cable pins. I did that last part in the on board connections as well.
I then connected everything back in and I though that one of the connectors had a bend pin, that could really be my imagination though after spending so much time on it.
I gently made it as straight as I thought it could be and connected everything.

It worked...
I honestly don't think it was that pin though because I am not even sure if it was bent to begin with...
Anyway it is working and is priting just fine actually, even better than before with the new rollers.

Thank you everyone for taking the time in this.
At least I learned half the machine by doing all that and can use that in the future if needed. (expecting a c224e soon)

Have a great day!
George

tsbservice
02-01-2022, 06:47 AM
So finally its working properly.

To be honest I haven't figured what it was.
I changed the PS7 with one sensor from the unused tray2 and tried that, it did not work.

I started following the entire cable to see if there was any weird bends or scratches but still nothing.
So what I did is completely removed the unit, cleaned everything with q-tips and used a blower to clean the cable pins. I did that last part in the on board connections as well.
I then connected everything back in and I though that one of the connectors had a bend pin, that could really be my imagination though after spending so much time on it.
I gently made it as straight as I thought it could be and connected everything.

It worked...
I honestly don't think it was that pin though because I am not even sure if it was bent to begin with...
Anyway it is working and is priting just fine actually, even better than before with the new rollers.

Thank you everyone for taking the time in this.
At least I learned half the machine by doing all that and can use that in the future if needed. (expecting a c224e soon)

Have a great day!
George


Good job!

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