Bizhub 423 3001 jam - suspecting wrong tray 1 paper feed assembly

[Techalyzer]

Hello,

I have this weird problem with a Bizhub 423. At every print from tray 1, the paper jams, sometimes at the first sheet, sometimes after a few sheets. Always jam code 3001. 537K copies on the machine. I have found a similar thread here, and it mostly points to the paper exit assembly cable/connectors or the wrong type of paper feed assembly used for tray 1. I have checked the imaging unit, registration unit, fixing unit, paper transport, it all looks perfect, one of the best looking machines I've worked on, minimal to inexistent wear, nothing wrong mechanically.

And indeed, upon inspection, the tray feed assembly is the usual kind you find on other slower models, 3 sensors, 3 extra free pins on the main connector probably left for the missing sensor.

The catch is this: it's only my 4th day in this company and obviously I don't want to seem to be... "that guy". The person who deals with it says that's how it was before, with that same tray 1 paper feed assembly, and it worked just fine. I somehow doubt that, you can see the feed assembly clearly in the parts manual and it's not what we have here. But... being my 4th day, I'm really reluctant to start contradicting with people during my first week.

Any advice?

[Toxic]

Check registration roller is it turning hard by hand.
Worn bushings are common problem on machines with high volume counter.
Try to lube bushings, if than does not jam you know what to order. :)
1164354901 BUSHING

Also clutch may be bad but in that case usually print postition is not good on paper.
A1UDM20000 Clutch

[Techalyzer]

Try to lube bushings, if than does not jam you know what to order. :)
1164354901 BUSHING

Also clutch may be bad but in that case usually print postition is not good on paper.
A1UDM20000 Clutch

As I said, everything mechanical is in pristine condition. Lubed bushings, clutch is already new. Exactly the same problem.

[Toxic]

Where is location of jammed paper?
Is paper crumpled or straight when jam?
And jamming only from tray 1 specific?

[REGSIS]

Check registration roller is it turning hard by hand.
Worn bushings are common problem on machines with high volume counter.
Try to lube bushings, if than does not jam you know what to order. :ll
1164354901 BUSHING

Also clutch may be bad but in that case usually print postition is not good on paper.
A1UDM20000 Clutch

Registration clutch 100%
J30-01, sometimes J99-01. Usually starts with paper jam fro. tray1, tray2 is not affected due to longer paper path.

P.S. Blow out the sensor also!

[tsbservice]

J30-01
Symptom
• When feeding paper from PC-409, paper jam is indicated. (Jam code: J30-01)
Cause
When feeding paper from PC-409, a paper gets too closer to the one previously fed. As a result, Jam occurs because the sensor prior to the
registration roller cannot pick up the rear edge of the paper in front.


Countermeasure
Check the version of the firmware. If the version is lower than the followings, update the firmware to the following versions (or above).
Program name: bizhub 423/363/283/223 MFP Firmware
File name to download: [A1UD0Y0-F000-G00-C2.exe]

[Hap]

J30-01
Symptom
• When feeding paper from PC-409, paper jam is indicated. (Jam code: J30-01)
Cause
When feeding paper from PC-409, a paper gets too closer to the one previously fed. As a result, Jam occurs because the sensor prior to the
registration roller cannot pick up the rear edge of the paper in front.


Countermeasure
Check the version of the firmware. If the version is lower than the followings, update the firmware to the following versions (or above).
Program name: bizhub 423/363/283/223 MFP Firmware
File name to download: [A1UD0Y0-F000-G00-C2.exe]



Another thing is if someone had the registration assem out and got the mylar under the guide instead of over easy to do and only will jam from tray 1 something to check

[Techalyzer]

J30-01
Countermeasure
Check the version of the firmware. If the version is lower than the followings, update the firmware to the following versions (or above).
Program name: bizhub 423/363/283/223 MFP Firmware
File name to download: [A1UD0Y0-F000-G00-C2.exe]

I suspect this might be the case.

I tried with tray 2, same behavior but the paper gets jammed in a different place, the 2 big rubber rollers on the machine over tray 2 exit. I watched the paper in tray 2, a few sheets came out, then a sheet got stuck in something. Slowly opening the side cover, I noticed it was as if those 2 big rollers got stuck, the paper couldn't get past them.

As I said before, all clutches are BRAND NEW, and mechanically everything is perfect, all sensors are cleaned, everything is perfectly clean, lubricated, nothing is dirty or stuck or worn out. It feels like there's some kind of software problem, locking stuff while there's still paper passing through.

One problem though, I tried to check the firmware version, there are 5 pages full of firmware versions, half of them with MFP in the name... which one am I looking at? :)

[tsbservice]

I suspect this might be the case.

I tried with tray 2, same behavior but the paper gets jammed in a different place, the 2 big rubber rollers on the machine over tray 2 exit. I watched the paper in tray 2, a few sheets came out, then a sheet got stuck in something. Slowly opening the side cover, I noticed it was as if those 2 big rollers got stuck, the paper couldn't get past them.

As I said before, all clutches are BRAND NEW, and mechanically everything is perfect, all sensors are cleaned, everything is perfectly clean, lubricated, nothing is dirty or stuck or worn out. It feels like there's some kind of software problem, locking stuff while there's still paper passing through.

One problem though, I tried to check the firmware version, there are 5 pages full of firmware versions, half of them with MFP in the name... which one am I looking at? :)
MFP controller/MFP card version.

[copyman]

Another thing is if someone had the registration assem out and got the mylar under the guide instead of over easy to do and only will jam from tray 1 something to check

This is exactly what I was thinking. Easy enough to check

[Techalyzer]

This is exactly what I was thinking. Easy enough to check

Someone did get the registration assembly out. It was me, multiple times. :D The mylar is just fine. As I stated above, for tray 2, the blockage now occurs at the 2 big rollers above tray 2 feed, as if they don't turn. Again, as I stated above, and I quote, "all clutches are BRAND NEW, and mechanically everything is perfect, all sensors are cleaned, everything is perfectly clean, lubricated, nothing is dirty or stuck or worn out". This is by far the cleanest, least worn out machine I have ever seen. The thing is literally new.

Anyway, it's getting late here, I'm going to sleep and tomorrow I'll probably try a firmware update. A big hint is that apparently we have another 423 with the exact same issue.

[tsbservice]

A4-R size tried and still jamming?

[femaster]

...or the wrong type of paper feed assembly used for tray 1...
And indeed, upon inspection, the tray feed assembly is the usual kind you find on other slower models, 3 sensors, 3 extra free pins on the main connector probably left for the missing sensor.
Any advice?

The 423 uses feed units that are unique to that model. The slower machines, (223, 283, 363) use different feed units. The 3 slower models use a sensor flag (black plastic actuator similar to what is found under the registration rollers), while the 423 uses direct reflection optical sensors in the feed units. The feed units are NOT interchangeable.

Here is an example from the service manual so you know what to look for:

52416

I can't tell you this will help you fix your jamming issues, but it will clear up whether or not you have the correct feed units in the machine. The registration sensor in all the models is an actuator type, and the main 2 paper feed units in the 423 are optical reflective, no actuators involved...

[Techalyzer]

Here is an example from the service manual so you know what to look for:

52416


That's the one. Definitely optical. As I said, switching between tray 1 and tray 2, the jam appears in a totally different place, but the behavior is identical, as if the machine actuates things with the wrong timings. So I think it is unlikely to be something physical.


MFP controller/MFP card version.

MFP controller is A1UD0Y0-0100-G00-D6. So I guess I should update?

[Techalyzer]

L.E.: I tried to update to A1UD0Y0-F000-G00-D6. Firmware update goes well, start button goes blue, I turn the machine off, turn it back on, it starts normally aaaaaand... firmware version is still A1UD0Y0-0100-G00-D6.

Is it possible that I did something wrong? Or is the machine messed up worse than I thought?

[tsbservice]

You did same firmware as machine is currently on, what else will you expect?

[Techalyzer]

You did same firmware as machine is currently on, what else will you expect?

I tried to update from A1UD0Y0-0100-G00-D6 to A1UD0Y0-F000-G00-D6... are these the same?

[Hap]

Someone did get the registration assembly out. It was me, multiple times. :D The mylar is just fine. As I stated above, for tray 2, the blockage now occurs at the 2 big rollers above tray 2 feed, as if they don't turn. Again, as I stated above, and I quote, "all clutches are BRAND NEW, and mechanically everything is perfect, all sensors are cleaned, everything is perfectly clean, lubricated, nothing is dirty or stuck or worn out". This is by far the cleanest, least worn out machine I have ever seen. The thing is literally new.

Anyway, it's getting late here, I'm going to sleep and tomorrow I'll probably try a firmware update. A big hint is that apparently we have another 423 with the exact same issue.
the mylar can be fine but it can go over or under the guide it should be over the reg assem

[Techalyzer]

the mylar can be fine but it can go over or under the guide it should be over the reg assem

If words don't work, let's try pictures.
52430

[blackcat4866]

Not that mylar. This mylar:

52432

=^..^=

[Techalyzer]

Not that mylar. This mylar:

52432

=^..^=
You have to be more specific, I have no idea what that is, nor does it look like anything I've worked with and it doesn't seem to be from a service manual.

[Hap]

If words don't work, let's try pictures.
52430
This is the mylar i was referring to ,easy to get it tucked under

[blackcat4866]

You have to be more specific, I have no idea what that is, nor does it look like anything I've worked with and it doesn't seem to be from a service manual.

I'm complimented that you think that I drew this myself ... but I did not. Take a look at your Theory Of Operation Manual > Registration Section. =^..^=

[Techalyzer]

I'm complimented that you think that I drew this myself ... but I did not. Take a look at your Theory Of Operation Manual > Registration Section. =^..^=

I don't have such a thing, never heard of it before, and Google doesn't help either. I have service manuals and parts manuals.


This is the mylar i was referring to ,easy to get it tucked under

Yes, it is easy to get it tucked under indeed. But as you can clearly see, it isn't, is it?

[femaster]

I don't have such a thing, never heard of it before, and Google doesn't help either. I have service manuals and parts manuals.

Theory of Operation is a part of the Service Manual.

[Hansoon]

The feed units are NOT interchangeable.

+1

Happened here several times when colleagues put the wrong labels on prepared units we have in store. We always have at least 2 pcs each of rebuild units in stock for these series. I started to mark the units for the slow series with large yellow dots and for the BH-423 with a red dot. Similar procedure for the BH-C-280/360 series where those feed units are also not interchangeable.

Hans

[Techalyzer]

Theory of Operation is a part of the Service Manual.

Well, it seems it is not part of my manual, these are the only references to the word "Theory" I can find in my manual.
5244152442

[blackcat4866]

On this model the Theory Of Operation is a separate document. It's not part of the handbook.

Just look at the registration rollers. the mylar touches the metal registration roller. =^..^=

[Techalyzer]

On this model the Theory Of Operation is a separate document. It's not part of the handbook.

Just look at the registration rollers. the mylar touches the metal registration roller. =^..^=

Just to make it clear, we do not have any physical manuals, we only have what you can get online doing a Google search. And Google has absolutely nothing when I search for "bizhub 423 Theory of Operation".

Are you talking about the mylar from that thing that gathers paper dust?

[Albonline]

Hello,

I have this weird problem with a Bizhub 423. At every print from tray 1, the paper jams, sometimes at the first sheet, sometimes after a few sheets. Always jam code 3001. 537K copies on the machine. I have found a similar thread here, and it mostly points to the paper exit assembly cable/connectors or the wrong type of paper feed assembly used for tray 1. I have checked the imaging unit, registration unit, fixing unit, paper transport, it all looks perfect, one of the best looking machines I've worked on, minimal to inexistent wear, nothing wrong mechanically.

And indeed, upon inspection, the tray feed assembly is the usual kind you find on other slower models, 3 sensors, 3 extra free pins on the main connector probably left for the missing sensor.

The catch is this: it's only my 4th day in this company and obviously I don't want to seem to be... "that guy". The person who deals with it says that's how it was before, with that same tray 1 paper feed assembly, and it worked just fine. I somehow doubt that, you can see the feed assembly clearly in the parts manual and it's not what we have here. But... being my 4th day, I'm really reluctant to start contradicting with people during my first week.

Any advice? I don't know if anybody mentioned the drive motors just slow down in this series. try exchanging the main drive with the developer drive motor. this problem happens sooner on the faster models in this series.

[femaster]

On this model the Theory Of Operation is a separate document. It's not part of the handbook.
=^..^=

Don't know what to say to that. The service manual I have, downloaded directly from KM USA, has everything all in one PDF...

52453


Well, it seems it is not part of my manual, these are the only references to the word "Theory" I can find in my manual.
5244152442

You must have an incomplete manual. The text in the first image is clearly telling you that both sections are contained in the manual, "This service manual consists of Theory of Operation section and Field Service section..."
Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

It's possible that the registration clutch is slipping. Fairly common on this series. I just replaced one 2 days ago in a 423 because I could only get a couple pages out of the machine before it would jam with a J3001. Check the pages that you are actually getting out of it, and see if the lead edge is off on any of the pages. If you have another machine, temporarily swap the whole registration/transfer assembly out of it and see if the problem goes away. It's much easier to swap the whole assembly than it is the swap just the clutch for testing purposes.

[Techalyzer]

It's possible that the registration clutch is slipping. Fairly common on this series. I just replaced one 2 days ago in a 423 because I could only get a couple pages out of the machine before it would jam with a J3001. Check the pages that you are actually getting out of it, and see if the lead edge is off on any of the pages. If you have another machine, temporarily swap the whole registration/transfer assembly out of it and see if the problem goes away. It's much easier to swap the whole assembly than it is the swap just the clutch for testing purposes.

It's not the clutch. All assemblies have been swapped, the current ones have been verified to the last screw.

[tsbservice]

Don't know what to say to that. The service manual I have, downloaded directly from KM USA, has everything all in one PDF...

52453



You must have an incomplete manual. The text in the first image is clearly telling you that both sections are contained in the manual, "This service manual consists of Theory of Operation section and Field Service section..."
Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

It's possible that the registration clutch is slipping. Fairly common on this series. I just replaced one 2 days ago in a 423 because I could only get a couple pages out of the machine before it would jam with a J3001. Check the pages that you are actually getting out of it, and see if the lead edge is off on any of the pages. If you have another machine, temporarily swap the whole registration/transfer assembly out of it and see if the problem goes away. It's much easier to swap the whole assembly than it is the swap just the clutch for testing purposes.
I have them both - service manual and Theory of Operation as 2 different PDFs. I think SM was divided in past on two PDFs before they put them both in one document as usual.

[Techalyzer]

I don't know if anybody mentioned the drive motors just slow down in this series. try exchanging the main drive with the developer drive motor. this problem happens sooner on the faster models in this series.

I switched the motors between them. I replaced them with other ones from a functional machine that even looked and felt less worn. Same problem.

So what happened so far:

SYMPTOM: Paper jam error code 1201 from tray 2 and 3001 from tray 1. It could happen at the first page or after 20 pages go through just fine.

WHAT I TRIED:

- Checked and replaced all assemblies - Fixing, imaging, registration, paper feeds, paper exit. Replaced all rollers. All checked to the last screw, nothing worn out, nothing stuck, nothing dirty, nothing bent, broken or otherwise not right. The general condition of all assemblies could be described as almost brand new, one of the best looking machines I've seen.

- Registration roller bushings lubed, roller moves easily by hand; print position on paper is perfect

- All clutches have been replaced and work just fine

- All mylar sheets are straight and going where they should go; I don't know about the mylar Blackcat is talking about, as he refused to give any clear indication about where that mylar is located, pointing out to a Theory of Operation manual, that at least in my workplace, is not a thing, nor can it be found on Google

- I tried to update firmware from A1UD0Y0-0100-G00-D6 to A1UD0Y0-F000-G00-D6. It remained at A1UD0Y0-0100-G00-D6

- I switched the main drive motors between them. I replaced them with other ones from a functional machine that even looked and felt less worn


The problem persists just like day one, nothing changed.

HELP? :D

[copyrooks]

I would say have a look at the tray cassettes make sure no morped or broken pieces. If no dice then i would say take out the main drive assy. Maybe a broken gear on the assy . Good luck

[Techalyzer]

I would say have a look at the tray cassettes make sure no morped or broken pieces. If no dice then i would say take out the main drive assy. Maybe a broken gear on the assy . Good luck

If a gear was broken, would it output 10-20-30 pages just like a perfectly functional machine before jamming the paper?

Nothing wrong with the cassettes.

[Techalyzer]

So I guess I should just give up and use it for parts? :)

[Hansoon]

So I guess I should just give up and use it for parts? :)

I personally would NEVER give up. Not only because since this is a fine machine but also cause I MUST know what's behind it.

The best tool a copier tech has is Endurance.

Hans

[Techalyzer]

I personally would NEVER give up. Not only because since this is a fine machine but also cause I MUST know what's behind it.

The best tool a copier tech has is Endurance.

Hans
I'm exactly the same, however, when you are an employee there are some limitations. Especially in these times.

[Techalyzer]

This is my only question left unanswered so far:

Is firmware version A1UD0Y0-0100-G00-D6 the same as A1UD0Y0-F000-G00-D6 ?

[Toxic]

https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/konica-minolta/164229-bizhub-423-3001-jam-suspecting-wrong-tray-1-paper-feed-assembly-2.html#post2119815

[Techalyzer]

https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/konica-minolta/164229-bizhub-423-3001-jam-suspecting-wrong-tray-1-paper-feed-assembly-2.html#post2119815

Thanks. That helped a lot. :rolleyes:

[tsbservice]

If you want to do firmware PM me and I will check newest FW I have for bh423.

[femaster]

This is my only question left unanswered so far:

Is firmware version A1UD0Y0-0100-G00-D6 the same as A1UD0Y0-F000-G00-D6 ?

A1UD0Y0-F000-G00-D6 - Latest BASE FIRMWARE, Released Oct 22, 2012
A1UD0Y0-0100-G00-D6 - Firmware version specific to the MFP Controller contained in the A1UD0Y0-F000-G00-D6 firmware package.

[cyta123]

Try to change clutch A00FM20000



52598

[Techalyzer]

Try to change clutch A00FM20000



52598
Try to read a topic before answering.

[cyta123]

Try to read a topic before answering.

>>I have this weird problem with a Bizhub 423. At every print from tray 1, the paper jams, sometimes at the first sheet, sometimes after a few sheets. Always jam code 3001. 537K copies on the machine. I have found a similar thread here, and it mostly points to the paper exit assembly cable/connectors or the wrong type of paper feed assembly used for tray 1. I have checked the imaging unit, registration unit, fixing unit, paper transport, it all looks perfect, one of the best looking machines I've worked on, minimal to inexistent wear, nothing wrong mechanically.<<

You haven,t changed this part as far, and problem still exist.

>>have checked the imaging unit, registration unit, fixing unit, paper transport, it all looks perfect<< maybe looks fine, but works wrong.

[Techalyzer]

>>I have this weird problem with a Bizhub 423. At every print from tray 1, the paper jams, sometimes at the first sheet, sometimes after a few sheets. Always jam code 3001. 537K copies on the machine. I have found a similar thread here, and it mostly points to the paper exit assembly cable/connectors or the wrong type of paper feed assembly used for tray 1. I have checked the imaging unit, registration unit, fixing unit, paper transport, it all looks perfect, one of the best looking machines I've worked on, minimal to inexistent wear, nothing wrong mechanically.<<

You haven,t changed this part as far, and problem still exist.

>>have checked the imaging unit, registration unit, fixing unit, paper transport, it all looks perfect<< maybe looks fine, but works wrong.
Nothing new on the internet. Here ya go buddy:
52610

[Hansoon]

Try to read a topic before answering.

No need becoming sarcastic.......

Colleague is trying to help YOU with YOUR problem which YOU are not able to solve.

Hans

[tsbservice]

What will happen if you try bypass tray will it jam?