Blurry Barcodes on Plastic

[Madnhain]

I'll try to nut-shell this as much as possible, but there's been a lot of trial and error.
These are 4 and 8 series KM devices. 3 series doesn't seem to have this issue, but as we update devices, we are noticing a pattern and it's becoming a critical issue, detrimental to patient care.

Issue: Hospital arm-bands are letter size media with a removable plastic (transparency) armband with a barcode. The barcode is coming out blurry and not able to scan.
We have tried a variety of paper types with minimal improvements.
Barcode prints normally on regular paper and labels.
PS driver was an improvement over PCL
Something about the plastic that the toner doesn't like, What might I be missing? KM doesn't appear to have a transparency paper type.

[blackcat4866]

I don't suppose that this will help you much, but Konica Minolta would say that it's: "unsupported media".

I've dealt with unsupported media on a couple of occasions:

At a school district they printed paychecks onto a bizarre letter sized media with a transparent window off-center and several pre-perforations. The biggest problem with that media is that once you've got 1000 sheets of it stacked up, you end up with a sine-wave shape to the stack. The low edges at the front & rear of the machine would snag on the lower infeed guides and jam.

At another place they had media with pre-perforations on the front and rear of LTR-R media, so it was the exact opposite situation. Once you stacked up 1000 sheets, the high edge at the front would touch the pickup shaft before the pickup tire touched the middle of the stack ... so no pickup.

The solution was the same for both medias. Use less media. As long as the unevenness of the stack does not exceed 6mm, it will probably feed.

As for something constructive: Maybe the toner isn't fusing to the clear plastic area. It's probably thicker in that area. You might try different media settings. I can imagine how this is going to go:

"I need some of that special media to test on."
"It's kinda expensive ... here are two sheets."

=^..^=

[korthr5]

Can you post an example with the problem ?

[tsbservice]

I'll try to nut-shell this as much as possible, but there's been a lot of trial and error.
These are 4 and 8 series KM devices. 3 series doesn't seem to have this issue, but as we update devices, we are noticing a pattern and it's becoming a critical issue, detrimental to patient care.

Issue: Hospital arm-bands are letter size media with a removable plastic (transparency) armband with a barcode. The barcode is coming out blurry and not able to scan.
We have tried a variety of paper types with minimal improvements.
Barcode prints normally on regular paper and labels.
PS driver was an improvement over PCL
Something about the plastic that the toner doesn't like, What might I be missing? KM doesn't appear to have a transparency paper type.

What about increasing fuser temperature in CE mode, selecting thick paper in driver? Also as BC noted a lot of tests can be done inhouse on customers media - if they are willing to share more than few :)

[Madnhain]

The hospital wants this resolved so giving me media to test with isn't an issue. Yes, it is expensive.

No, I cannot share an example, HIPAA regulations and all that.

Increased Fusing Temp had no noticeable effect.

I've played around with as many paper type settings as are available, Heavy 1 seems to be the best.

Playing with driver settings takes an act of God. The drivers are controlled by Epic, a healthcare 3rd party.

I'm going to hook up a 458e in my office and play with the driver and settings to see what I can come up with in a sandbox setting. I'll update with anything I find out. I may even break down and call KM. Though They don't ever seem to be much help.

For reference, I work 98% of the time inside this hospital, managing nearly 3000 devices. 5-600 will have this issue once they are all upgraded to 4 or 8 series. We may even see some i series coming in, not sure what kind of fresh hell that's going to bring. My "free time" to play in a sandbox environment will be extremely limited, but will update when I can.

Thanks for the input! If y'all think of anything, let me know!

[tsbservice]

The hospital wants this resolved so giving me media to test with isn't an issue. Yes, it is expensive.

No, I cannot share an example, HIPAA regulations and all that.

Increased Fusing Temp had no noticeable effect.

I've played around with as many paper type settings as are available, Heavy 1 seems to be the best.

Playing with driver settings takes an act of God. The drivers are controlled by Epic, a healthcare 3rd party.

I'm going to hook up a 458e in my office and play with the driver and settings to see what I can come up with in a sandbox setting. I'll update with anything I find out. I may even break down and call KM. Though They don't ever seem to be much help.

For reference, I work 98% of the time inside this hospital, managing nearly 3000 devices. 5-600 will have this issue once they are all upgraded to 4 or 8 series. We may even see some i series coming in, not sure what kind of fresh hell that's going to bring. My "free time" to play in a sandbox environment will be extremely limited, but will update when I can.

Thanks for the input! If y'all think of anything, let me know!

Well that sounds like pretty much big territory and I would consider mother KM help together with all your local company resources. Good luck with that and keep us informed.

[Woxner]

I have some hospitals that run these on 808 series. Fusing is good but they tend to skew on tray 4 and 3. Make sure you use oem toner. I also have hp's that run these. Oem toner worked fine but hp generic would not fuse unless i told the printer it was card stock.

[copyman]

Maybe I missed it but did it ever work printing this same transparency stock? The 4 series are fairly old now and why I'm asking. What were they using before to print the armbands?

If you tried all different fuser temp & paper settings then not much left that you can do. I would think using thick 4 setting which slows machine down would allow good bar code printing and not smear lines together. But with transparencies anything is possible.

Only thing I can think of is try different paper backed transparency stocks and hopefully find one the machine likes.

Like other poster said OEM toner a must!

Good luck getting help from Kon/Min. They will tell you it doesn't meet their specifications.

[SalesServiceGuy]

... in a perfect world this hospital should be using dedicated desktop label printers with wax/resin ribbons.

I recommend the Toshiba BFV4T as it is Cerner certified, a critical specification for any healthcare settings.

Also see,

Hospital Bracelets and Patient ID Wristbands | Zebra (https://www.zebra.com/gb/en/products/supplies/hospital-wristband-patient-id-wristband.html)

It seems obvious that this media is way out of spec for your and almost any copiers.

[Albonline]

I'll try to nut-shell this as much as possible, but there's been a lot of trial and error.
These are 4 and 8 series KM devices. 3 series doesn't seem to have this issue, but as we update devices, we are noticing a pattern and it's becoming a critical issue, detrimental to patient care.

Issue: Hospital arm-bands are letter size media with a removable plastic (transparency) armband with a barcode. The barcode is coming out blurry and not able to scan.
We have tried a variety of paper types with minimal improvements.
Barcode prints normally on regular paper and labels.
PS driver was an improvement over PCL
Something about the plastic that the toner doesn't like, What might I be missing? KM doesn't appear to have a transparency paper type.


"In a nutshell" you are going from a drum to paper unit to a transfer belt type unit, you can increase coverage density via service mode adjustments(raising toner density,1st&2nd
transfer voltage and fuser temp )

this will turn the copier into a pig if its high volume.

a possible fix may be as simple as rotating the paper 90 degrees.

[Madnhain]

I appreciate all the responses.

Adjusting the fusing temp didn't have a noticeable effect. Also, I'm hesitant to make any of these type changes in service mode because these arm bands are a very small portion of what these devices output and (correct me if I'm wrong) service mode fusing adjustments will effect ALL output, not just a specific tray / paper type making discharge paperwork etc print more slowly.

There are a fair amount of locations inside the hospital that use HP for their arm bands, primarily M607 - M608 which print the barcodes just fine. I've recommended switching all arm band printing to HP or Zebra, but the powers that be aren't too keen on that. Added expenses and budget constraints etc. I was shot down pretty quickly with "It worked before it should work now".

Previously, KM 363 and 423 have been used without issue. This only seems to be an issue with the newer models. Side note: These arm bands like to peel off in the vertical transport area occasionally. This is the leading cause of premature ITB failure. But the real fun is when they wrap around the registration rollers. I found that the heavier the media type I select, the slower and fewer of these instances I experience.

OEM Toners... I understand that it needs to be said that OEM toners are a must. To that I must reply "Duh".... I'd never use anything else, though I know it's a common issue in this industry.

I'll try rotating the media to see if that makes a difference.

[emujo2]

You may be fighting a losing battle..what worked in a previous generation does not necessarily work in a new device..This applies to color output as well..In fact, there are some government accounts that force KM to keep a old model (ie C454eGSA) in stock so they don't have to move to the newest untested model. I know it's a pain, but did you get this media tested before you swapped over to the new devices? In many cases you will need to send +500 sheets up to corporate to have the paper tested. You may also ask if there already is a type of these wrist band labels already approved. I have had good luck with most Avery products. E

[korthr5]

The fusing temperature is adjusted by paper type and not by paper tray.

Try to see in what step it happens. like image malformation on transferbelt or after transfer roller or after fusing. During print open the rigth door to find in which step the barcode is blurry.

Try in the driver change the quality mode for DTP, and on the driver dont prioritize the productivity

[copyman]

I appreciate all the responses.

Adjusting the fusing temp didn't have a noticeable effect. Also, I'm hesitant to make any of these type changes in service mode because these arm bands are a very small portion of what these devices output and (correct me if I'm wrong) service mode fusing adjustments will effect ALL output, not just a specific tray / paper type making discharge paperwork etc print more slowly.

There are a fair amount of locations inside the hospital that use HP for their arm bands, primarily M607 - M608 which print the barcodes just fine. I've recommended switching all arm band printing to HP or Zebra, but the powers that be aren't too keen on that. Added expenses and budget constraints etc. I was shot down pretty quickly with "It worked before it should work now".

Previously, KM 363 and 423 have been used without issue. This only seems to be an issue with the newer models. Side note: These arm bands like to peel off in the vertical transport area occasionally. This is the leading cause of premature ITB failure. But the real fun is when they wrap around the registration rollers. I found that the heavier the media type I select, the slower and fewer of these instances I experience.

OEM Toners... I understand that it needs to be said that OEM toners are a must. To that I must reply "Duh".... I'd never use anything else, though I know it's a common issue in this industry.

I'll try rotating the media to see if that makes a difference.

If it worked on the "3" series like another poster touched on the 363 / 423 don't have a transfer belt so one less thing during transfer and why it worked. If the hospital "higher ups" say it worked before do they mean on the old "3" series or these newer 4 & 8 series? If the older models then your answer should be the newer models don't support it. The older models are no longer supported by Kon/Min so no choice but to upgrade.

On the other hand, it sounds like a very big account. If this happen to one of my large accounts I would buy them a couple off lease HP's and give them to customer for free. Include the toner as long as printer is used for armbands only. This not only gets rid of the armband headache but stops transparency jams ruining transfer belts, and service calls for jams wrapped around trans roller, etc!

[femaster]

If the 3-series machines worked, then they probably need a similarly styled machine again. While they aren't the greatest machine, a B&W 227 or 287 might fit the bill. They use the same type of setup as the 3-series with the direct drum to paper toner transfer and a similar style fusing system as well.

[Gift]

Did you force and stop the print process before the fuser so you can have a look at the quality before and after the fusing process? Perhaps it's looking bad before that fuser, too so you can rule that out.
I also find it funny that this is a workflow in a hospital - from my experience printing on plastic with modern laser printers usually end up in more or less poor-ish results.

I'd recommend something proprietary for this task or if it needs to be a budget solution: buy a label printer like brother "p touch" you can print lables on demand and stick them on the wristband - the adhesive quality is very good and the barcode will always come out crystal clear. Another advantage is that the color won't rub-off easily like toner usually does if printed on foil.

[Madnhain]

First off... maybe calling it Blurry is inaccurate, more like faded... I guess a faded barcode looks blurry *shrug*
So, for the most part, the 4&8 series are working well so long as we use heavy 1 paper type.


So, I'm attaching an image to show what's going on with this 364e. Not an image of the barcodes (HIPAA), but did a copy of a meter page on the arm band media.
The top is what comes out of a 364e normally (different machine), the bottom is what I'm getting out of this new 364e. Both devices have the exact same settings as far as I can tell.
To be clear, not all 4&8 series are having this issue, but enough ARE that it's a concern.


I'm honestly wondering if there was a bad developer or toner batch that might be causing this.54587

[blackcat4866]

I think you can safely rule out developer, toner, consumables ... the image defect only seems to appear on the plastic portion, yes?

I would be interested to know if the latent image on the transfer belt is good. My bet is that it is a good latent image, and the defect is happening during second transfer. The heavy1 media setting increases 2nd transfer. =^..^=

[L0rdC]

I think you can safely rule out developer, toner, consumables ... the image defect only seems to appear on the plastic portion, yes?

I would be interested to know if the latent image on the transfer belt is good. My bet is that it is a good latent image, and the defect is happening during second transfer. The heavy1 media setting increases 2nd transfer. =^..^=
I agree with you, it doesn't seem like a fusing problem, if that part doesn't fuse, it would stay on the fuser roller and repeat it later, it seems to be a secondary transfer problem, I would try to interrupt the print and look at the transfer belt later turn the page to see if the image continues there

[Madnhain]

Yes, it has a good latent image on the ITB.
I hadn't considered the 2nd transfer, this is a very low click unit and the 2nd transfers are pretty darn durable. I'll check voltages and maybe throw a new one in there to see what happens.

As always, The Keyop and I thank you all for your wisdom!

[blackcat4866]

Are you out there, mojorolla? Is there a way of separately increasing 2nd transfer, like it does with the media setting? =^..^=

[Albonline]

Are you out there, mojorolla? Is there a way of separately increasing 2nd transfer, like it does with the media setting? =^..^=

you are asking for trouble if you increase just 2nd xfer, the latent image is used as lube for belt cleaning blade.

[Albonline]

First off... maybe calling it Blurry is inaccurate, more like faded... I guess a faded barcode looks blurry *shrug*
So, for the most part, the 4&8 series are working well so long as we use heavy 1 paper type.


So, I'm attaching an image to show what's going on with this 364e. Not an image of the barcodes (HIPAA), but did a copy of a meter page on the arm band media.
The top is what comes out of a 364e normally (different machine), the bottom is what I'm getting out of this new 364e. Both devices have the exact same settings as far as I can tell.
To be clear, not all 4&8 series are having this issue, but enough ARE that it's a concern.


I'm honestly wondering if there was a bad developer or toner batch that might be causing this.54587


looking at the image i see what was at one time referred to as ac blowout in the plastic area. how to combat it in these series? no clue, (you may try setting to a lighter stock) but you say some units of the same series do not have this problem? I would go back to basics in this case. do a full print quality adjustment series on one that's having the issue.

[tsbservice]

Are you out there, mojorolla? Is there a way of separately increasing 2nd transfer, like it does with the media setting? =^..^=

I don't have documentation handy but second transfer can be manipulated in service mode. Another question is should it be increased and by how much.
I think you reached for dealer with great reputation but was answered from direct with great reputation :)

[Crowfeather]

I would have thought if you are upping the fuser temperature as a matter of course you should decrease the toner density to avoid blurring, as this will allow the higher temperature to be maintained more consistently across the print.

[Madnhain]

+10 Points for L0rdC!

it seems to be a secondary transfer problem

Alright guys, sorry for the delay... It's update time.

2nd xfer was the culprit. This is a very low click device and I've never had issues with the transfer rollers on these, So I immediately ruled it out as a possibility because these never go bad (for me anyway).

I swapped the transfer roller out for a new one and the problem was resolved. Thank you all for your input!
This stupid thing is in a secure part of the facility (psych ward) and is a pain in the butt to get to and I had to make FAR too many trips in there to troubleshoot this thing... all for a stupid transfer roller.

[copyman]

+10 Points for L0rdC!


Alright guys, sorry for the delay... It's update time.

2nd xfer was the culprit. This is a very low click device and I've never had issues with the transfer rollers on these, So I immediately ruled it out as a possibility because these never go bad (for me anyway).

I swapped the transfer roller out for a new one and the problem was resolved. Thank you all for your input!
This stupid thing is in a secure part of the facility (psych ward) and is a pain in the butt to get to and I had to make FAR too many trips in there to troubleshoot this thing... all for a stupid transfer roller.

Thanks for taking the time to update!

If this went on much longer you may of ended up a permanent "psych ward" resident:)