C1060 with toner pile-up on the 2nd Transfer Unit

[OverKnight]

Anyone have an observation for this particular issue?

Let me set the stage, the ITB was a wreck. It was split/cracking on the front side and the Transfer Belt Cleaning Unit was certainly due for replacement. THOROUGHLY cleaned the ITB assembly and inspected the rollers, all seem well enough. Replaced the ITB and TBCU. System is perfectly happy with the new parts and print quality is perfect again, but...

On the 2nd Transfer Unit, there is Magenta depositing on the roller and piling on the metallic guide (SEE ATTACHED). To diagnose the issue, I swapped drums (old magenta drum with bad quality) and the problem still exists. I ruled out the drum and checked the Developer Unit. All looks fine there as well.

This was an issue I thought cured with the ITB not spewing toner through the cracks, but now Magenta is the only issue. The only other thing of note I think is the Magenta Drum doesn't seem to be evacuating the waste toner completely, maybe it's related?

Thanks!

[tulintron]

Anyone have an observation for this particular issue?

Let me set the stage, the ITB was a wreck. It was split/cracking on the front side and the Transfer Belt Cleaning Unit was certainly due for replacement. THOROUGHLY cleaned the ITB assembly and inspected the rollers, all seem well enough. Replaced the ITB and TBCU. System is perfectly happy with the new parts and print quality is perfect again, but...

On the 2nd Transfer Unit, there is Magenta depositing on the roller and piling on the metallic guide (SEE ATTACHED). To diagnose the issue, I swapped drums (old magenta drum with bad quality) and the problem still exists. I ruled out the drum and checked the Developer Unit. All looks fine there as well.

This was an issue I thought cured with the ITB not spewing toner through the cracks, but now Magenta is the only issue. The only other thing of note I think is the Magenta Drum doesn't seem to be evacuating the waste toner completely, maybe it's related?

Thanks!You can clean everything from the developer unit to the ITB. Print 20 to 30 pattern 53 with 255 in Magenta. The culprit of this will get dirty and find the cause. I would shoot the barrel.

If you suspect the magenta drum, you can try manually moving the mechanism and see if something is wrong.


It's not a hair loss defect, but it has to be evaluated carefully.


Good luck

[blackcat4866]

Backed up drum waste can definitely cause this issue. Switching drum units may help in the short tern, but eventually the drum unit in the magenta slot will back up again. I see a major rear frame disassembly in your future. =^..^=

[blackcat4866]

... It's not a hair loss defect, but it has to be evaluated carefully.

Can you clarify this statement? Maybe a questionable translation?

I try not to have any hair in my drum cleaning units. =^..^=

[OverKnight]

Backed up drum waste can definitely cause this issue. Switching drum units may help in the short tern, but eventually the drum unit in the magenta slot will back up again. I see a major rear frame disassembly in your future. =^..^=

I anticipated that probability with the inspection of the older drum. I took the actual drum out of the assembly and saw that the magenta was packed. Auger was working correctly as I dumped the excess toner out and reassembled it again. Not worried about the quality, just needed to see if a clear drum is going to eject toner just like before. The answer was yes. No point in wasting a good drum that was going to act perfect for the first 500 sheets. LOL

So, if toner has no place to go, it would go in the direction of least resistance... Out the front facing side of the drum, transferred onto the ITB and then deposits on the 2nd Transfer? In essence, that would mean there is a blockage at the back exit point for magenta...

As for the suggestion of running test prints, I don't think that will help as the problem is outside the printable area to begin with. Agree?

[blackcat4866]

... As for the suggestion of running test prints, I don't think that will help as the problem is outside the printable area to begin with. Agree?

There's no point in proceeding with image quality, until you can get that magenta drum waste to pass.
I agree. =^..^=

[OverKnight]

There's no point in proceeding with image quality, until you can get that magenta drum waste to pass.
I agree. =^..^=

A bit more information before I tear into it...

Quality is great. The only problem is the dusting/depositing of toner specifically with magenta. The machine is also requesting a replacement of a toner filter. Service mode shows that the filter box is at 97%. I removed the back cover and inspected the filter box and also ran some prints with it removed to make sure the fan was working correctly. It works splendidly.

I have attached 2 pictures that shows that magenta is reaching for the exits everywhere! Behind the unit is missing the duct cover and the blower blasts it straight onto the wall. Waste toner collection looks like magenta is dominating the blend (I was expecting the waste to be brownish). Toner Density Sensor Output seems nominal at Line Speed 1-4, 29777-29782-29784-29772 respectively. Ran the TDSO after the ITB was replaced. That being said, is it possible that toner is overwhelming the drum? Doesn't look like it from the test and all the other colors are in the same range.

5465954660

Anyway, I'm just spit balling here before going in too deep for no reason.

Thanks for your suggestions.

[tulintron]

Can you clarify this statement? Maybe a questionable translation?

I try not to have any hair in my drum cleaning units. =^..^="hair fall" is just an expression we use here in Brazil when something takes so much time and wisdom.

I may have applied it in an unnecessary situation, causing conflict. it was not the intention

[blackcat4866]

A bit more information before I tear into it...

Quality is great. The only problem is the dusting/depositing of toner specifically with magenta. The machine is also requesting a replacement of a toner filter. Service mode shows that the filter box is at 97%. I removed the back cover and inspected the filter box and also ran some prints with it removed to make sure the fan was working correctly. It works splendidly...

The toner filters are on the inner front cover. Usually I just vacuum them off and reset the counter.


... I have attached 2 pictures that shows that magenta is reaching for the exits everywhere! Behind the unit is missing the duct cover and the blower blasts it straight onto the wall. Waste toner collection looks like magenta is dominating the blend (I was expecting the waste to be brownish). Toner Density Sensor Output seems nominal at Line Speed 1-4, 29777-29782-29784-29772 respectively. Ran the TDSO after the ITB was replaced. That being said, is it possible that toner is overwhelming the drum? Doesn't look like it from the test and all the other colors are in the same range.

5465954660

Anyway, I'm just spit balling here before going in too deep for no reason.

Thanks for your suggestions.

I suspect that your magenta developer is over-toning ... but it cannot overwhelm the capabilities of the waste toner collection system, even when over-toning. I've got a couple of machines that persist in over-toning ... I suspect it's the replacement toner that we're getting, and all we can do is live with the crappy toner until it's gone.

You'll also get some toner spray during a blockage, from toner forcing it's way out of the waste system at any place it can, then get evacuated by a cooling fan.

The short answer is, you still have to take the waste system apart. Bring your vacuum and some extra stretch-N-dust cloths. You'll need them. If your very lucky you'll clear the blockage before something breaks. =^..^=

[blackcat4866]

"hair fall" is just an expression we use here in Brazil when something takes so much time and wisdom.

I may have applied it in an unnecessary situation, causing conflict. it was not the intention

Now I know. Thanks for the education.

No, it doesn't translate to American English successfully. =^..^=

[OverKnight]

...I suspect it's the replacement toner that we're getting, and all we can do is live with the crappy toner until it's gone...=^..^=

Well, as the supply chain unpredictability persists, the toner bottles in stock are sealed products direct from Japan? Not all of them, but definitely the magenta. The bottles are keyed differently as well...

Anyway, it's Friday! Machine is functional and I will no doubt need to clean it again before figuring it out. It's a Monday problem now.... LOL

I'll report my findings then, thanks!

[wjurls]

A bit more information before I tear into it...

Quality is great. The only problem is the dusting/depositing of toner specifically with magenta. The machine is also requesting a replacement of a toner filter. Service mode shows that the filter box is at 97%. I removed the back cover and inspected the filter box and also ran some prints with it removed to make sure the fan was working correctly. It works splendidly.

I have attached 2 pictures that shows that magenta is reaching for the exits everywhere! Behind the unit is missing the duct cover and the blower blasts it straight onto the wall. Waste toner collection looks like magenta is dominating the blend (I was expecting the waste to be brownish). Toner Density Sensor Output seems nominal at Line Speed 1-4, 29777-29782-29784-29772 respectively. Ran the TDSO after the ITB was replaced. That being said, is it possible that toner is overwhelming the drum? Doesn't look like it from the test and all the other colors are in the same range.

5465954660

Anyway, I'm just spit balling here before going in too deep for no reason.

Thanks for your suggestions.

If that filter box is at 97% you definitely need to replace it. They always look fine when removed but the internal filter is for sure clogged up. Also, while the filter box is removed, get your vacuum out with a crevice nozzle and reach back behind the process drawer and clean out those suction ports (8 of them). When the filter and ports get clogged these machines will start blowing toner all over the place. Particularly magenta.

[OverKnight]

If that filter box is at 97% you definitely need to replace it. They always look fine when removed but the internal filter is for sure clogged up. Also, while the filter box is removed, get your vacuum out with a crevice nozzle and reach back behind the process drawer and clean out those suction ports (8 of them). When the filter and ports get clogged these machines will start blowing toner all over the place. Particularly magenta.

Yes, Sir! Go with the simple fix first. LOL

When I first saw the dusting throughout the unit, I made sure to clean out the inlets. The ITB was certainly distressed and the majority of the problem. Replacing the TBCU was due as well. Combined it cleaned everything up except this magenta leak. I will revisit the inlets, be thorough this time and replace the filter box.

I'll report the results once I have everything done and running.

[OverKnight]

OK, got the new Filter Box and broke down the Process Unit and completed a thorough cleaning, including the Dust Proof Glass (you'll know why I point this out by reading the rest).

54733

NOTE: Out of curiosity I weighed the old Filter Box vs. the new and it was definitely heavier. Dumped it and magenta was spewing out. EWWWW.

Picked a job out that was a good sized run of 800+ sheets. Loaded the tray with 200 sheets (to break the run) and went to town... After each reload, I check the 2nd Transfer for deposits. Yep, magenta's still there. As the fate would have it, a few sheets would double and halt the system. WE BE JAMMIN'

This was a good thing because I was able to see this issue and it's literal tracks. As you can see, there is a BAND of magenta coming off the ITB. This isn't just some dusting of toner poofing from the end. It looks like its being written to the drum or rather the drum isn't being cleared near the end?

54734

Sticking to principles, I'm assuming the drum becomes charged, the Writing Unit exposes the drum thus reversing the charge in non-image areas and toner then adheres to everything else. That might be simplifying it, but I'm sure you get what I mean.

It's a guess that this area isn't being "written" correctly and carrying toner to a place that it doesn't belong. Again, thank God for jams. LOL

It's clearly a solid band of magenta toner and none of the other colors are a problem nor is quality. Machine is running like it doesn't care... other than consuming magenta like it's candy.

Any thoughts on this new hypothesis?

[tsbservice]

OK, got the new Filter Box and broke down the Process Unit and completed a thorough cleaning, including the Dust Proof Glass (you'll know why I point this out by reading the rest).

54733

NOTE: Out of curiosity I weighed the old Filter Box vs. the new and it was definitely heavier. Dumped it and magenta was spewing out. EWWWW.

Picked a job out that was a good sized run of 800+ sheets. Loaded the tray with 200 sheets (to break the run) and went to town... After each reload, I check the 2nd Transfer for deposits. Yep, magenta's still there. As the fate would have it, a few sheets would double and halt the system. WE BE JAMMIN'

This was a good thing because I was able to see this issue and it's literal tracks. As you can see, there is a BAND of magenta coming off the ITB. This isn't just some dusting of toner poofing from the end. It looks like its being written to the drum or rather the drum isn't being cleared near the end?

54734

Sticking to principles, I'm assuming the drum becomes charged, the Writing Unit exposes the drum thus reversing the charge in non-image areas and toner then adheres to everything else. That might be simplifying it, but I'm sure you get what I mean.

It's a guess that this area isn't being "written" correctly and carrying toner to a place that it doesn't belong. Again, thank God for jams. LOL

It's clearly a solid band of magenta toner and none of the other colors are a problem nor is quality. Machine is running like it doesn't care... other than consuming magenta like it's candy.

Any thoughts on this new hypothesis?

This means if you do panic stop machine test M drum will has that band?

[Toxic]

I would go for developing unit replacement right after drum and charge unit replacement does not give results.

[blackcat4866]

OK, got the new Filter Box and broke down the Process Unit and completed a thorough cleaning, including the Dust Proof Glass (you'll know why I point this out by reading the rest).

54733

NOTE: Out of curiosity I weighed the old Filter Box vs. the new and it was definitely heavier. Dumped it and magenta was spewing out. EWWWW.

Picked a job out that was a good sized run of 800+ sheets. Loaded the tray with 200 sheets (to break the run) and went to town... After each reload, I check the 2nd Transfer for deposits. Yep, magenta's still there. As the fate would have it, a few sheets would double and halt the system. WE BE JAMMIN'

This was a good thing because I was able to see this issue and it's literal tracks. As you can see, there is a BAND of magenta coming off the ITB. This isn't just some dusting of toner poofing from the end. It looks like its being written to the drum or rather the drum isn't being cleared near the end?

54734

Sticking to principles, I'm assuming the drum becomes charged, the Writing Unit exposes the drum thus reversing the charge in non-image areas and toner then adheres to everything else. That might be simplifying it, but I'm sure you get what I mean.

It's a guess that this area isn't being "written" correctly and carrying toner to a place that it doesn't belong. Again, thank God for jams. LOL

It's clearly a solid band of magenta toner and none of the other colors are a problem nor is quality. Machine is running like it doesn't care... other than consuming magenta like it's candy.

Any thoughts on this new hypothesis?

You lost me about half way through.

If it was the laser causing this issue by writing that band of image (on digital devices the laser writes the text/image, NOT the white areas), the laser would have to be consistently ON when the beam reached the one end, which seems very unlikely to me. Usually with lasers, the fault you get is light NOT leaving the laser, usually obstructed by toner, or dust, or a failed laser diode, or a failed mirror motor ... many of these things will code out the machine. If it passes a Auto Color Calibration, the laser isn't it.

In my opinion it's got to be the magenta developing unit dumping, or the magenta drum not cleaning, or a rusting charge grid. In either case the toner spray will contaminate the primary charge grid, making it worse. =^..^=

[OverKnight]

You lost me about half way through.

If it was the laser causing this issue by writing that band of image (on digital devices the laser writes the text/image, NOT the white areas), the laser would have to be consistently ON when the beam reached the one end, which seems very unlikely to me. Usually with lasers, the fault you get is light NOT leaving the laser, usually obstructed by toner, or dust, or a failed laser diode, or a failed mirror motor ... many of these things will code out the machine. If it passes a Auto Color Calibration, the laser isn't it.

In my opinion it's got to be the magenta developing unit dumping, or the magenta drum not cleaning, or a rusting charge grid. In either case the toner spray will contaminate the primary charge grid, making it worse. =^..^=

Simply put, I already swapped the drum to see if it would do the same thing. I don't know if it was creating the same conditions, but the build-up on the 2nd Transfer definitely occurred. The band is perfect and one could assume a mechanical defect rather than just a minor quality flaw with something else. Imaging was a guess, but like you said, that would code out (I kinda figured it would).

I'm reaching for the answer and SLOWLY getting to PERFECTION. LOL

AND I already thought of the coronas, got a full set of them. ;-)

I'll swap out the magenta and replace it with a new one. As for the drum itself, there isn't anything visible on it that would suggest its failing. We'll see what happens next...

Thanks!

[OverKnight]

I would go for developing unit replacement right after drum and charge unit replacement does not give results.

Yes, I already thought of the coronas. Got a set and a drum for the Magenta if all else fails. However, like I have explained, I swapped the drum out already to test the drum theory. Similar results.

I'm going with the corona and see if the problem lies there...

Thanks!

[OverKnight]

This means if you do panic stop machine test M drum will has that band?

HMM, on the drum itself? That I don't know. I would need to look closer at that and would prove it is closer to the source of the problem.

What I do know, is the band is visible on the ITB. I would assume that the drum would have this as well if the machine panics...

I'm going to replace the corona to see if it's a charging issue to the drum.

Thank!

[OverKnight]

Morning!

First, I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions and guidance with this issue.

This morning I swapped the black corona with the magenta corona. Then sent a job for a quick 10 clicks and pulled out the drawer to observe the results on the 2nd Transfer... and found black depositing instead. TADA!

Pulled the effected corona and as you can see in the picture, there is a blob of magenta on the bottom rail. I would assume it's creating a blind spot/charging issue thus creating a band on the lead of the drum. It would also be the root cause to consumption, packing and collection of magenta. This band would just feed the drum and TBCU waste/$$$.
54746

Call me crazy, but I wanted to go one step further and clean the corona assembly. The next image shows the blob removed, the corona wire is cleared of all deposits and put back in service. Works perfectly.

54747

Each step of this process was a necessary and important step to the quality of the machine. The tinkering with each item and the ruling out of worse case scenarios is just part of the learning process. The final solution turns out to be a $50 part, which can now be held off until it's true EOL or quality suffers once more.

THE KEY TO KNOWING "WHY" HAS BEEN ACHIEVED, ONCE AGAIN COMING DOWN TO A SIMPLE FIX AND OBSERVATION!

Case Closed.

FYI, not only is it a good idea for you to maintain the service log, but have your clients keep one too. It was clear to me that the magenta here was way OFF because the last bottle of toner was swapped out in July. That means it only lasted a month or so and that didn't jive with the numbers.

[Toxic]

Glad you solve it after all suffer.
Charge units should be always first thing to check and replace and estimated life for them is with reason shortest compare to drum, developer etc.

[OverKnight]

Glad you solve it after all suffer.
Charge units should be always first thing to check and replace and estimated life for them is with reason shortest compare to drum, developer etc.


Your not wrong! It was just unusual to see a clear band of toner resulting from a bad corona. BUT, here we are. :cool: