Canon CLC 3220, Konica Minolta bizhub C350 or xerox DC2240

[omargraphe]

Dear all,

I have to buy a used color machine for my print shop. I have 3 offers Canon CLC 3200 and Konica Minolta bizhub C350 and xerox DC2240 . It is on the same price. I need some advices which to buy.

What I need in machine:
-to accept heavy weight paper
- to accept transfert paper.
-good print output
-fast RIPing for prints
-rentable for toners and service, more durable and less problems and services

Simply what is the best for me, more rentable and less errors and maitenanace?

Thanks in advance.

[jprecht]

Am familiar with both the bizhub and canon 3220 bxes and eitheir would fit your needs. both have advantages and disadvantages. I would look @ your service/supply sources and choose who is going to support you. The color from the bizhubs is phenominal @600dpi and it is flexible with a variety of stock. I have 9 of these bxs in printshops. the canon is also a good platform too. good luck!!! jp

[Stirton.M]

Dear all,

I have to buy a used color machine for my print shop. I have 3 offers Canon CLC 3200 and Konica Minolta bizhub C350 and xerox DC2240 . It is on the same price. I need some advices which to buy.

What I need in machine:
-to accept heavy weight paper
- to accept transfert paper.
-good print output
-fast RIPing for prints
-rentable for toners and service, more durable and less problems and services

Simply what is the best for me, more rentable and less errors and maitenanace?

Thanks in advance.


As a KM tech, the c350 was amongst the first machines I was trained on.

I do not know about the others, so I cannot comment on any of them.

Do not get the c350.

It does not rip fast, but this depends on the types of files you are sending to it and whether or not a fiery controller is used or not. It cannot do transfers very well (for those tshirt things I assume). It is limited on paper weights, and quality is also dependent on paper types.

This machine is at the end of the support chain in KM, there are none that we officially support older than this. In other words, its days are numbered regarding service support.

If you are considering KM, I highly recommend you look at our newer lines, specifically C451. C352 or C353 are pretty good too, though nowhere near as good as the C451 series.

If budget is a concern, then look at the C350's "newer" siblings, the C351 or C450. Both machines are essentially the same, aside from speed. They are the first true hybrid units from the Konica Minolta merger. The C350 was released just before the C450 and the C351 and C450 are by far better machines by leaps and bounds over the C350, better mechanical and electronics. Even the fiery controller option is superior, and the internal controller is pretty good itself. Though these are considered amongst the same generation as the C350, they are as I said, much better machines. More user configurable settings, easier to program and use from an MFP perspective, built in fax option....and on and on.

Of course, the support on these is also similar in fate to that of the c350.

As for leasing (for toner and service support), if I recall correctly, the older a machine is, the higher the price per page support charge. If you go KM, enquire about that. The cpc charge might be such that it will be more worth your while to go with something newer.

[serginho_vl]

Don't know much about the Xerox, but one time I calculated the price on the consumables - and it is 2 or 3 times more expensive then KM or Canon - but i've heard they have very good print quality.

You might not find Bizhub C451 as a used machine yet, maybe in 2 years or so, but you can find Bizhub C351/C450 or C250(more of an office box), so my advice is to go for bizhub c351/c450 as Stirton.M said.
On the inside, bizhub C350/C351/C450 almost the same machine, just the control panel, print controller and soft are different.

In terms of second hand machines - you'll have to look at the consumables counters as new consumables will cost you more then the price of the used machine.

The Canon has a percentage counter for imaging units but they are usually good for 200% of that counter (at around 35-40% toner coverage - that you get if you print business cards, flyers and posters alternatively). You can change the units when print quality deteriorates or when you get an error code (whicever comes first). The fuser unit you can rebuild - you can find parts.
For KM - they have counters like a bar with squares on it (the dark color squares is how much it is used, the white squares is how much is left) for imaging units, fuser unit and transfer unit. On the 35-40% coverage you will probably get at least 50% over the counter for IUs, but you'll have to reset the chips for the IU's (you need to find somebody to do that for you, as it requires a special tool). The transfer unit and the fusing unit are also resettable, (a glass and a green fuse that have to be changed) and you'll get one more life out of them.

As for the toner, the Canon is about 30% more expensive then the KM - for OEM toner. You'll find compatible toner as well, Katun is good for machines upto C350/C351/C450 and not that good for newer machines like C250/C252/C352, but you'll have to clean the machine more often, possibly some fuser issues. For the Canon there is also Katun toner, but you'll get more life from IUs with OEM toner. Haven't tried other brands of toner on these machines, but Katun is a big name for compatible consumables, as well as for parts.
About the consumables changed by user - KM easier to change then Canon.

About the speed of ripping C350 is slow (and I'm only talking about the ones with Fiery, without fiery is lame), CLC3200 better, C351/C450 and C250/252/352 even better - they have the same standard controller -KM's Emperon which is much better and much easier to use then the old fiery that C350 has. C351/C450 also have the option of buying a newer/better fiery (very expensive as new but OK if a used one); still the Emperon is very good for every day use.
Print quality - I've printed same image on Canon CLC3220 and on Bizhub C350 and C252. Best image on Canon, next C252, then C350. You should try it to print on all three machines the same image.
For thick paper feed - CLC3220 and C350 will run 256gr/m paper, even 280 gr/m copier paper, IF the rollers are good (glossy offset paper will cause some problems), but newer bizhubs (C250/252/352 much better at this, they'll even duplex thick paper well). As for the glossy offset paper, transfer paper and other difficult stuff better are C250/252/352 - but you'll have to change the print settings for lower fusing temperature: for 250 gr/m thick paper 2 or 1, but you can print transfer on C350 and CLC3220 if the paper is of good quality and the settings are right (the c350 is better at this then the clc - I've seen a clc3200 fuser ruined by a transfer paper - but if you find a good transfer paper brand then it's OK).
For the service, Canon is more labor intensive then KM, parts are still available for both, but a newer machine is always a better option as the support will be available for longer.

Just to sum it up, clc3220 better on print quality, more reliable imaging units but more expensive on toner, more difficult to service, the bizhub c351/c450 has cheaper toner, is better on thick paper and easier to service but more expensive on imaging units, fuser and transfer (you also have to reset chips).

So easy to choose now, right ? ... :D

[omargraphe]

I thanks all mens answering me, you help is very appriciated,

I'm little bit stunning of Mr serginho_vl said : "but you can find Bizhub C351/C450 or C250(more of an office box)"

and : when you said : "About the speed of ripping C350 is slow (and I'm only talking about the ones with Fiery, without fiery is lame), CLC3200 better, C351/C450 and C250/252/352 even better"

tell me Mr serginho_vl, do you mean by this that the c250 is realy better than c350 speaking obout speed of ripping??

i just want to know : is the KM c350 older than KM c250 ? and wich is the best between them" becouse of little budget, i have now choice between KM c250 and KM c350, wich one you advice me to purchase please??

and at last, any one here can tell me somthing obout Xerox DC2240,

[minimerlin]

I thanks all mens answering me, you help is very appriciated,

I'm little bit stunning of Mr serginho_vl said : "but you can find Bizhub C351/C450 or C250(more of an office box)"

and : when you said : "About the speed of ripping C350 is slow (and I'm only talking about the ones with Fiery, without fiery is lame), CLC3200 better, C351/C450 and C250/252/352 even better"

tell me Mr serginho_vl, do you mean by this that the c250 is realy better than c350 speaking obout speed of ripping??

i just want to know : is the KM c350 older than KM c250 ? and wich is the best between them" becouse of little budget, i have now choice between KM c250 and KM c350, wich one you advice me to purchase please??

and at last, any one here can tell me somthing obout Xerox DC2240,
If your choice is between the c350 and the c250 then the answer has to be the c250! I can`t comment on the Xerox box sorry.

[serginho_vl]

C350 - year 2004
C351/C450 - 2005
C250 - 2005
C252 (same machine like C250) - 2006
C352 - 2006

C350 / C351 / C450 about the same machine inside (IUs, fuser, transfer), only difference printer and control panel - C351/C450 newer printer (same printer in C250)

C250 / C252 newer printer, good on cardstock, good image but NOT so good with text. the imaging units not very good for printing high toner coverage intensively - it's mostly an office machine, not for printshops.

the image on C250 will deteriorate at around 10-15 k pages if you print high coverage pages (40-50 % coverage). also the thin lines in color don't look so good

print a page with image and text an C250 and C350 and compare the two. you will notice the COLOR TEXT on C250 is blurry, not crisp. also try printing on cardstock on both to see how good the rollers are. also check the consumables meters on them.

- C351/C450 have the better imaging units and the newer printer
- C250 newer printer but not so great imaging units

[Pete Gossett]

The C3220 has issues with poor transfer on heavy stock in dry/winter climates. There are fixes for it, but in some cases it still exhibits the problem.

The C350 is a decent box, but you won't find as many of them in print-for-pay environments as you will the Canon. They're just not as robust. As others have said, a C450 or newer box would be the better choice from Konica.

I was only involved with the newer Xerox DC240, and only for a brief period of time. It too seemed like a good box, and nearly every part was considered user-replaceable(which sounds like a good thing, from your perspective). I just don't care much for the Xerox philosophy of doing things, in that outside of routine parts-swapping there isn't much that can be done without their PWS laptop, and they really seem to be getting away from having knowledgeable trained field personnel.

[omargraphe]

thanks to all memeber, your help is great,

i think i'll choose canon clc 3220, i think this muchin is much better in speed, color output, and paper stock, i just want to know, when the canon clc 3220 has begin service?? 2004 or 2005, or 2006??

[alexfixes]

Dear all,

I have to buy a used color machine for my print shop. I have 3 offers Canon CLC 3200 and Konica Minolta bizhub C350 and xerox DC2240 . It is on the same price. I need some advices which to buy.

What I need in machine:
-to accept heavy weight paper
- to accept transfert paper.
-good print output
-fast RIPing for prints
-rentable for toners and service, more durable and less problems and services

Simply what is the best for me, more rentable and less errors and maitenanace?

Thanks in advance.xerox dc2240 maybe c451 or c550
good luck

[serginho_vl]

Introduction Date:
2003 (ImageRUNNER C3200)
2004 (ImageRUNNER C3220)
2005 (ImageRUNNER C2620)

CLC3220 is the same as IRC3220, except for the printer
C2620 - same as C3220 except for the speed (26 ppm)