PDA

View Full Version : C6500: Recurring C-2411


Custom Search


Stirton.M
06-22-2010, 12:44 AM
I have a C6500 machine that is going to drive me postal pretty soon.

The short history of this problem....

My boss went in to do some colour adjustments, customer was getting reds instead of orange. Relatively minor and simple procedure, it is something both he and I have done hundreds of times in the past. Drum potential and Gamma adjust followed by a calibration usually resolves this problem, and if not, we take further measure to replace the drum, charge wire or developer/d-unit in any given order. Most of the time, we are done in a few minutes.

What happens after these minor adjustments is when going back out of tech rep into the user mode, the machine will throw C2411, abnormal TCR.

After restarting the developer in the machine, the boss eventually replaced the PRCB and the problem was fixed.

A little over a week later, same colour problem. I go in and do this adjustment, and like the boss, the machine tosses another 2411. At this point, some consulting with the boss, we make the decision to replace the dev units (they were about 400K, so the whole lot replaced) and restarted the devs. And like before, this did not resolve the problem and I replaced the PRCB again, and this fixed the problem.

Today, this colour issue arose yet again. WIth some apprehension, I tried other ways to get the machine to properly print the job without doing the previous adjustment, but not even recalibrating the machine provided the results wanted, the colour just refused to blend correctly. So I tried yet again, drum potential and gamma adjust.

Neither of those two adjustments have any bearing on TCR, and yet, the machine tosses another 2411.

Some inspection in tech rep to display the TCR values, all showed 0000.

Again I will be replacing the PRCB again in the morning.

3 times in as many weeks, with brand new boards, this is getting a bit rediculous. My thoughts are that something else must be at fault. A talk with tech support has given me a lead on 12V supplied, though he has doubts since I am not getting any error event elsewhere, specifically the toner density sensor on the registration assembly.

Has anyone else had this kind of game happen to them, and if so, what did you do to resolve it, aside from wasting money replacing the PRCB once every week or so?

It should also be noted that the machine was capable of producing the correct colour in tech rep, providing the halftone values for each CMYK, yet when the job was spooled, the colour was incorrect. A preview of the job through command workstation showed the colours as expected, yet when printed, the colour was incorrect.

For the most part, the machine was operating normally otherwise.

HORSE
06-22-2010, 04:45 AM
When you push the Process unit back into the machine and lock back the long steel handles do find them hard to lock?

I have had issues on a few different machines where the connector at the back of the process was not making a good connection and throwing a C24-11 or C24-01


Also on the faulty PRCB have you checked all the ICPs, are any OC?

Stirton.M
06-22-2010, 05:33 AM
On one, the boss I believe found a blown ICP. The last one I did I never looked, has yet to make its round through board repair, but I asked the guys there to let me know which should be tomorrow night or the next morning when I learn about that one, but swapping that board eliminated the problem. This next one I will be looking directly at before I change it. I have a brand new board for that purpose for the just in case.

I've had issues in the past like what you've seen with the process carriage not quite making a full connect. Generally I pull this out and reseat, which is what I did first when I re-encountered the code this afternoon.

I cannot help but think that the machine is deliberately severing its internal connection, "V'Ger" like. I know they all have their personalities, but suicidal????

HORSE
06-22-2010, 06:38 AM
Ok I will give you a big clue and try and make it easy for you. check the faulty PRCB ICP 15 (1000mA) for OC. If thats blown then you are looking at a dead short in the 12v from the all the TCR back to that PRCB.

All TCR share that ICP 15.

Good Luck with that

random
06-22-2010, 11:39 AM
You should replace the loom and connector on the process unit. The one in the machine and the one on the process unit. We have had random problems like this and it has resolved it. You can have all sorts of problems TDC failure, drum potential, colour reg problems all sorts.

mgutski
06-23-2010, 10:48 PM
i have had one instance, where the machine would not print a good red, more orange then anything. we ended up changing the color registration assembly in the machine. we never had any codes, just poor color.

HORSE
06-24-2010, 12:44 AM
i have had one instance, where the machine would not print a good red, more orange then anything. we ended up changing the color registration assembly in the machine. we never had any codes, just poor color.

I think you might have posted this reply in the wrong thread or you are simply confused.

The old problem of the Reds printing Orange was caused by the 'Purple Dot' color registration assy back in late 2007 & early 2008, this was resolved by the 'M' stamped color registration assy over 2 years ago. I fail to see the connection between that problem and the OP's problem of a C-2411 code which is caused by a TCR.

hosman80
06-25-2010, 05:33 PM
i had a similar problem with c-2414 codes (k tcr), and after replacing dv units, developers and prcb multiple times, found the problem to be the wire harness that connects into the dv unit, it was only pinched a little bit but it was enough to be broken inside and make faulty connection and intermittently give those codes, we fixed the harness and the code never came back.
hope this helps.

Stirton.M
06-25-2010, 06:36 PM
Ok I will give you a big clue and try and make it easy for you. check the faulty PRCB ICP 15 (1000mA) for OC. If thats blown then you are looking at a dead short in the 12v from the all the TCR back to that PRCB.

All TCR share that ICP 15.

Good Luck with that

As it turns out, ICP 15 was indeed blown on the previous events, as well as this one. The second previous event an IC associated with this was also blown, according to board repair.

Currently the machine is operating ok. The next event, if it happens, we will be going after the harness.

Stirton.M
06-25-2010, 06:41 PM
You should replace the loom and connector on the process unit. The one in the machine and the one on the process unit. We have had random problems like this and it has resolved it. You can have all sorts of problems TDC failure, drum potential, colour reg problems all sorts.
and

i had a similar problem with c-2414 codes (k tcr), and after replacing dv units, developers and prcb multiple times, found the problem to be the wire harness that connects into the dv unit, it was only pinched a little bit but it was enough to be broken inside and make faulty connection and intermittently give those codes, we fixed the harness and the code never came back.
hope this helps.

I am not surpised by this. The events seem too coincidental to be anything but a harness related problem. Currently the board has been replaced with a new one and we will be watching for any related issues in the near future and act on that premise that the harness/connector has failed.

Though not related, I had a similar problem with one of the main body feed trays where the connector itself, not the harness included with, was at fault. Though a pain in the ass, swapping the connector from tray three to tray 2 confirmed the problem. I have little doubt I am experiencing a similar problem with the process unit connection.

Thanks for the ideas guys....

random
06-28-2010, 07:41 AM
As it turns out, ICP 15 was indeed blown on the previous events, as well as this one. The second previous event an IC associated with this was also blown, according to board repair.

Currently the machine is operating ok. The next event, if it happens, we will be going after the harness.

Is this ICP at the bottom of the board? If so then yes I would go for the loom as this is what we had to do. Comes up with a fault related to a communication failure I think.

HORSE
06-28-2010, 01:00 PM
As it turns out, ICP 15 was indeed blown on the previous events, as well as this one. The second previous event an IC associated with this was also blown, according to board repair.

Currently the machine is operating ok. The next event, if it happens, we will be going after the harness.

Well now, I would say you have an intermittent short circuit somewhere between Process unit and the PRCB. Really ICPs just don't blow for the sake of it.... pinched or broken wires will more than likely be OC but ICP failure like that is more than likely SC caused by a trapped wire against metal.

Check harness in areas of movement, Check the connector.

Stirton.M
06-28-2010, 06:29 PM
It tossed the code again. Got a new harness on the way, and am stealing a harness out of our training room machine.

Stirton.M
08-17-2010, 09:49 AM
Ok, enough time has passed that I am confident the problem has been resolved.

The harness for the main process carriage itself was the fault area. I have to say, that was a pain in the butt to replace.

Thanks for the help guys.

AyJayAreDii
08-17-2010, 11:39 AM
I'm getting a lot off 2402 Erase lamp/K (EL/K) set cannot be detected. Machine works for a while then every so often come up with this code when turned on in mornings. Thinking about replacing the lamp but after seeing this thread was wondering if it is on the same harness, as TCR sensors and Erase lamps are from the same area? Could just be a different wire of the harness shorting out. Also there is already a service kit on order so also wondering if it is drum causing problem.

HORSE
08-17-2010, 12:07 PM
Could also be bad connection of the plug at the back of process unit, are the process steel handles a little more difficult to lock in place?

AyJayAreDii
08-17-2010, 12:44 PM
Could also be bad connection of the plug at the back of process unit, are the process steel handles a little more difficult to lock in place?

No they seem normal but pulling it out and reconnecting clears the code for 3 weeks or so. We have another C6500 which we have sitting around slowly being stripped apart! Worth Taking the connectors from the process unit?

HORSE
08-17-2010, 01:54 PM
try swapping the whole Process unit. If you were getting wires shorting out in that harness you would have board failures or ICPs blowing, an erase lamp not coming on in morning's is more than likely open circuit or bad connection.

I find that the Transfer belt coupling can have a side on torque effect on the process unit, at times when I try to close the handles the right hand one tends to feel sticky and usually comes up with an erase lamp error ....obviously just poor connection. I pull the process unit out again turn the transfer coupling a few degrees and that usually fixes it.

AyJayAreDii
08-17-2010, 02:23 PM
Thanks. I will try that when I'm next there! Most likely when I am next servicing it.

jma676
08-17-2010, 06:29 PM
Well try to understand, but the order of words confuses me, anyway, C-2411 refers to a problem with the detection of density on the yellow developing unit.

The first thing you should check is the status of the developer, the developer can remember inicializarze only once when new. (Unless you're an expert and you can manually control the density).

Well I think you should also review the charge corona unit yellow, it is common that the filament of the crown is displaced causing the toner with the developer to stop the boat can go to waste (toner Collection Box).

After all this if the problem continues to try to replace the TCR to the other drive first, it's difficult for the PRCB or developing unit may be at fault, unless someone is risky to do testing with a tester or something like trying to solve the problem and thus break the PRCB or TCR, if so, the bizhub PRO accuse C-2411 All the Time.

HORSE
08-17-2010, 10:42 PM
Well try to understand, but the order of words confuses me, anyway, C-2411 refers to a problem with the detection of density on the yellow developing unit.

The first thing you should check is the status of the developer, the developer can remember inicializarze only once when new. (Unless you're an expert and you can manually control the density).

Well I think you should also review the charge corona unit yellow, it is common that the filament of the crown is displaced causing the toner with the developer to stop the boat can go to waste (toner Collection Box).

After all this if the problem continues to try to replace the TCR to the other drive first, it's difficult for the PRCB or developing unit may be at fault, unless someone is risky to do testing with a tester or something like trying to solve the problem and thus break the PRCB or TCR, if so, the bizhub PRO accuse C-2411 All the Time.

Thanks for your input Superman, did you actually read this thread from start to finish?

I understood you up to the point where the Developer to stop the boat......... then like you said the order of words confuses me.

Stirton.M
08-18-2010, 01:00 AM
Thank god you saw exactly what I saw. I thought I had a stroke and was suddenly having word dyslexia.

RRodgers
08-18-2010, 01:27 AM
Reads like a firmware notes from KM. LOL

jma676
08-18-2010, 02:25 AM
Well I meant that the developer is carried along with the toner by The Drum to the toner collecting box, caused by low charge produced by the corona, moved or bad contact.

RRodgers
08-18-2010, 03:35 AM
Well I meant that the developer is carried along with the toner by The Drum to the toner collecting box, caused by low charge produced by the corona, moved or bad contact.

Well I'll give ya credit for at least offering to help. :)

jma676
08-18-2010, 04:06 AM
Tanks RRodgers!!!!!!!!!

jma676
08-19-2010, 02:06 PM
When you push the Process unit back into the machine and lock back the long steel handles do find them hard to lock?

I have had issues on a few different machines where the connector at the back of the process was not making a good connection and throwing a C24-11 or C24-01


Also on the faulty PRCB have you checked all the ICPs, are any OC?



hello guys should try it !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chromatik
08-19-2010, 03:23 PM
Really impressive!!!!!!!!!

HORSE
09-02-2010, 09:17 AM
Re: The original fault C-2411 there was a TAD released on 31/08/2010 for this problem TAUS0703727EN01

Stirton.M
09-02-2010, 05:46 PM
Yes, we had been over all that as you recall.

Solution was to replace harness on process unit, at least in this case.

jma676
09-02-2010, 05:51 PM
Re: The original fault C-2411 there was a TAD released on 31/08/2010 for this problem TAUS0703727EN01


Ok, if I could see this, ICP15 open, which tried to explain to Stirton.M was that if the PRCB is damaged, the service call code is always present, the only way to make it work again is to replace the PRCB, I think Stirton trying to explain this, how strange was that again had the problem.

in this case only two remaining possibilities: Damaged cables or connectors, TDS, developer abnormalities.

If you replace the TDS (TCR) by another unit, you'll notice immediately that the problem is not in the TDS, maybe acknowledgment C-2412.
Another reason, the Developing unit is empty, or with small amount of developer.
You should review the list of management to control, if the history of high service called low-density codes maybe earlier.

Stirton.M
09-02-2010, 06:59 PM
Ok, if I could see this, ICP15 open, which tried to explain to Stirton.M was that if the PRCB is damaged, the service call code is always present, the only way to make it work again is to replace the PRCB, I think Stirton trying to explain this, how strange was that again had the problem.

in this case only two remaining possibilities: Damaged cables or connectors, TDS, developer abnormalities.

If you replace the TDS (TCR) by another unit, you'll notice immediately that the problem is not in the TDS, maybe acknowledgment C-2412.
Another reason, the Developing unit is empty, or with small amount of developer.
You should review the list of management to control, if the history of high service called low-density codes maybe earlier.

Pardon the expression, but this is bordering on flogging a dead horse (no offense Horse :p). The issue in this particular case has been resolved. As I said, replacing the harness on the process unit fixed the problem.

jma676
09-02-2010, 07:20 PM
Pardon the expression, but this is bordering on flogging a dead horse (no offense Horse :p). The issue in this particular case has been resolved. As I said, replacing the harness on the process unit fixed the problem.


Stop talking like a child, I just wanted to continue with what he said Horse, I have no problem with you or Horse.

Just leave that can communicate with people from this forum without problems, stop sending enemies to lower my reputation.
And it would be interesting to chat with you also if you do not have that behavior.

Don`t need Credits of this forum to see if I am a good technician, i know what I'm doing, and I have spent many years in this.
And this is not only that I work, I have knowledge in other fields as well, maybe you also have them.
Take a pill and go for a walk with a girl that you relax!!

Stirton.M
09-02-2010, 07:57 PM
Ok.

First off, I am relaxed. You are not contributing anything new or useful to this thread that has not already been considered. As I said, you are flogging a dead horse. The problem has been resolved long before you came into the conversation. Horse pointed that out to you on your first post in this thread. All you are doing is muddying the waters.

If you want to have a "conversation", this is not the place for it. If you have something to contribute that has not been said already in the thread, and it may help others reading the thread, then by all means add away. All you are doing is wasting space with garbage that does not contribute anything more to the thread.

You want to show you are a good tech, then do so, but stop trying to push your answers as the only answer to a particular problem and minimalize the contributions from others here, as you have been doing almost constantly. Or posting in a thread with nonesense responses like you have in other threads, adding absolutely no value to those threads. In this particular thread you have contributed nothing new and this recent post of yours serves as a reason why your rep is at zero.

jma676
09-02-2010, 09:04 PM
Ok.

First off, I am relaxed. You are not contributing anything new or useful to this thread that has not already been considered. As I said, you are flogging a dead horse. The problem has been resolved long before you came into the conversation. Horse pointed that out to you on your first post in this thread. All you are doing is muddying the waters.

If you want to have a "conversation", this is not the place for it. If you have something to contribute that has not been said already in the thread, and it may help others reading the thread, then by all means add away. All you are doing is wasting space with garbage that does not contribute anything more to the thread.

You want to show you are a good tech, then do so, but stop trying to push your answers as the only answer to a particular problem and minimalize the contributions from others here, as you have been doing almost constantly. Or posting in a thread with nonesense responses like you have in other threads, adding absolutely no value to those threads. In this particular thread you have contributed nothing new and this recent post of yours serves as a reason why your rep is at zero.



and I say the same + the previous post.

Thanks, Stirton.M. hope will be the last.



a sample of friends and act as Stirton.M

HORSE
09-02-2010, 10:37 PM
Yes, we had been over all that as you recall.

Solution was to replace harness on process unit, at least in this case.

Yeah just seen the TAD for it yesterday and thought they are about a month too late.

Stirton.M
09-03-2010, 03:05 AM
Yeah just seen the TAD for it yesterday and thought they are about a month too late.

Come to think of it, looking at the file, you are right. Strange they took so long for that particular issue. Though in hindsight, it was pretty obvious. Thanks all the same tho...

jma676
09-03-2010, 09:55 AM
Solution ID TAUS0703727EN*
Description
C-2411, C-2412, C-2413 or C-2414.
Solution
CAUSE: Possibleopen ICP15, 12Vfuse (fuse type =ICP-S1.0) on the Printer Control Board.
SOLUTION: Check the fuse on the PRCB and replace the board as necessary (p/n A03UH030).
SPECIAL NOTE : Solution contribution by Freddie Burnham, Production Print/SSD

June 2009

Pilucopilu
07-02-2018, 07:00 PM
When you push the Process unit back into the machine and lock back the long steel handles do find them hard to lock?

I have had issues on a few different machines where the connector at the back of the process was not making a good connection and throwing a C24-11 or C24-01


Also on the faulty PRCB have you checked all the ICPs, are any OC?


Hello Guys, is there anybody out there who could provide a Part number for the connector and plug as well as for the process unit main harness? I cannot find it anzwhere in the servicemanual.Thanks!;)

Pilucopilu
07-04-2018, 09:19 AM
the solution has been found... read the posts it was the process harness

Phil thank you very much for your answer, i have read all the answers, but nevertheless i have no part number for that process wiring i would like to change. Could you please help me out eventually? O do i understand something wrong? I have noticed that from the pins is one not in the right position, see the picture please. And maybe i should describe the problems first:

Getting on start 2411 code, machine (C6501) is abandoning startup process, Y-Corona is new, Y-Dev Unit is new,Y-Tcr sensor is new. Did a Y-Developer change. When accessing the service menu and try to reset TCR sensor to initial value immediately get a 2401 error (not a 2411) So i started the I/O config to check input via Code 50 and 58 and the values for all 4 sensors stay at 0. This led me to the conclusion that there is no power supply. Even if i change f.e. a sensor from the other units - the error stays at 2411, but only in the usermenu. Before changing the PCRB (or repairing the ICP 15) i would like to eliminate the other possibilities ....
I Have to say further that i am not an expert technician and i would really appreciate some help, if possible
Thank you so far
LX40006

Synthohol
07-04-2018, 06:36 PM
Root Cause
C-2411, C-2412, C-2413 or C-2414 at power up or intermittently. Codes may be indicated when performing the drum adjustments.

Workaround/Fix
PROBABLE CAUSES:
1. OPEN ICP15, 12V DC fuse (fuse type = ICP-S1.0) on the Printer Control Board (Printer Control Unit).
Check the fuse on the PRCB and replace the board as necessary (p/n A03U R7B5 00).

2. Failed TCR Sensor.
Replace the Toner Density Sensor (p/n A03U M508 01) for the Developing Unit indicated by the failure code.
http://cscsupportftp.mykonicaminolta.com/media/CPDocs/TCRsensor.png

3. Failed Process unit wiring harness connectors.

Replace the Process Detection Wiring/1 (p/n A03U N110 01) and Process Detection Wiring/2 (p/n A03U N111 02).


Note: Process Detection Wiring/2 is only listed in the bizhub PRO C6500/C5500 Parts Manual.

Custom Search