Faceup or Facedown?

[swt]

Hello,

on a newly installed C280 we'd like to keep tray 2 for letterheaded paper but cannot get it to print on the correct face both 2-sided and 1-sided.

With the paper letterhead-face-up we can print a one page document ok but a two page document prints page one on the reverse side with page two going on the letterhead (face up) side.

With the paper letterhead-face-down we can print a two page document ok but a one page document prints page one on the reverse leaving the letterhead side blank.

I don't know where the problem lies; printer, driver or user but would welcome suggestions to try.

[rar0411]

turn off duplex in the driver perhaps??

[Dave10]

Have you gone into machine settings and set the drawer for letterhead?

[Stirton.M]

This is purely a function of how letterhead works on all KM machines, at least, all the colour units. I have noted this from all models from the C250 right on up to the current C652. It could very well be a bug that Japan never noticed, or there is some rhyme or reason for the function that they failed to pass on to the end user or us technicians, every level of firmware will not change the behavior. From my personal observations, the machine will not advance the click counter for billing, unlike it would if you directly used the duplex function. But also from a tech point of view, this causes unnecessary wear and tear on the machine, specifically the duplex and fuser units.

I've been telling all my customers to use "special" setting instead of letterhead. It will provide the same function without the hassle. If feeding from the main body, the print will be face up, so load the paper face up in the tray. If going from an LCC sidecar or the bypass tray, face down.

[swt]

Full of hope, I tried Special but with the same results I'm afraid (or am I supposed to reset anything?).

I cannot find the option on the machine to set the drawer for letterhead. The main Utility menu gives choices 1-4 and 8, there is no 5-7 but that looks like the default?

I'm not sure how to turn off duplex in the driver and still allow a two-letter page to be printed 2-sided.

Edit: I tried Special via the driver.

[thuo]

Hi
try and change binding position from the printer printing preferences option

[swt]

No joy trying different binding options; auto, left, right, top, all produce the same results.

[Stirton.M]

Full of hope, I tried Special but with the same results I'm afraid (or am I supposed to reset anything?).

I cannot find the option on the machine to set the drawer for letterhead. The main Utility menu gives choices 1-4 and 8, there is no 5-7 but that looks like the default?

I'm not sure how to turn off duplex in the driver and still allow a two-letter page to be printed 2-sided.

Edit: I tried Special via the driver.

See attached PDFs for user instruction regarding paper trays. For size, always allow the machine to be set on auto. The only exception to this is if you are using a none standard size and the machine is unable to detect it when set in auto mode. In some cases, even if you set the tray to auto, it may not trigger properly if it was set to a fixed size before you loaded a different size in. Set it to auto, load a different size in, or even change the orientation (letter paper) to trigger the automatic response. Then place the paper as you see fit. With the bypass tray, you must ensure the tray extension is folded out for paper sizes larger than letter. Legal and ledger for example.

The paper type on the tray can be set as per the PDF instructions attached. It should be set at this level before you print, ideally.

See attached images for setting the driver itself. The driver is for a slightly different machine, but the layout should be very similar. This is assuming the machine has been set to use paper priority and allowed to switch trays for matching paper and type set in the user mode section.

It should be self explanatory at that point. If you are still having trouble, call for service from your local KM.

And to reiterate, if you set the tray to "special", or for that matter, ANY other paper type that is not "letter head", load the main body trays with the physical letterhead paper you want to print from, face up. If you are using the bypass tray, load the paper face down.

[Stirton.M]

The attached image here shows how to set the driver if the previous automatic setting is not set on the machine itself. This one specifically selects drawer one, and then from there, select the button indicated to set the paper type. This one will force tray one (in this example) to be selected, and which paper type is wanted, special as shown.

You do not have to use tray one. You can use any tray you want. This is merely a sample that is universal between all the drawers. Paper size of course, is subject to the size of your original to be printed.
5700

[swt]

Hi Stirton.M,

I had tried those options and went over them again but nothing changes - we still get one result printing 1-sided and a different result printing 2-sided using letter headed paper. A Konica engineer was due today so I expected to have an update earlier but it's going to be next week now.

swt

[tcs04]

Hi Stirton.M,

I had tried those options and went over them again but nothing changes - we still get one result printing 1-sided and a different result printing 2-sided using letter headed paper. A Konica engineer was due today so I expected to have an update earlier but it's going to be next week now.

swt

I'm going to a customer with the same problem on a Ricoh machine Monday morning! Will report if I find anything.

[Stirton.M]

Hi Stirton.M,

I had tried those options and went over them again but nothing changes - we still get one result printing 1-sided and a different result printing 2-sided using letter headed paper. A Konica engineer was due today so I expected to have an update earlier but it's going to be next week now.

swt

Ok, I am going to say this once more. ON THE MACHINE, DO NOT USE LETTERHEAD SETTING FOR YOUR LETTERHEAD PAPER! You can use ANY other setting you want, just not the letterhead setting. As I said, this is purely a function of how the software works on the machine for letterhead and there is no known solution aside from simply not using that setting. Use special, thick, coloured....whatever floats your boat, just not letterhead. Also, in your driver, use the same setting as you have set on the machine. Again, do not use the letterhead setting in the driver. Load the paper in whatever drawer you choose for your company logo paper, face up. Read the two PDFs at the end of my previous post, which I think you missed.

As for the issue of printing one sided, check your driver and ensure first that it is not the wrong driver for the machine (if you are using the universal driver, get rid of that POS and install the correct machine model drivers), and once you have ensured that you are using the correct driver, ensure that the driver has the options set according to what the machine has. This is done through the driver properties page when you right click the driver from the printers folder and select properties. Configuration tab.

[dogsbody]

This is purely a function of how letterhead works on all KM machines, at least, all the colour units. I have noted this from all models from the C250 right on up to the current C652. It could very well be a bug that Japan never noticed, or there is some rhyme or reason for the function that they failed to pass on to the end user or us technicians, every level of firmware will not change the behavior. From my personal observations, the machine will not advance the click counter for billing, unlike it would if you directly used the duplex function. But also from a tech point of view, this causes unnecessary wear and tear on the machine, specifically the duplex and fuser units.

I've been telling all my customers to use "special" setting instead of letterhead. It will provide the same function without the hassle. If feeding from the main body, the print will be face up, so load the paper face up in the tray. If going from an LCC sidecar or the bypass tray, face down.


A lot of offset printers will add a little powder to the printed side of whatever they are printing, this stops ink transfer when the sheets are all stacked up in a great big pile and are not quite dry. Unfortunately for us poor bastards, when the customer runs the paper through the copier, this powder transfers to the feed and conveyance rollers causing jams. The letter head setting makes them put the paper in upside down so the powder doesn't transfer to the 1st feed rollers.
Generally you wont get much more than 500 pages feeding normally with this powder before it starts to jam. You go out clean feed rollers, it works for a while and then your back for the same thing
It is a real bitch fight to convince some customers that their very expensive paper is at fault, but they usually get the message.
See here if you want to know more Anti-set-off spray powder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-set-off_spray_powder)

Cheers.

[Stirton.M]

A lot of offset printers will add a little powder to the printed side of whatever they are printing, this stops ink transfer when the sheets are all stacked up in a great big pile and are not quite dry. Unfortunately for us poor bastards, when the customer runs the paper through the copier, this powder transfers to the feed and conveyance rollers causing jams. The letter head setting makes them put the paper in upside down so the powder doesn't transfer to the 1st feed rollers.
Generally you wont get much more than 500 pages feeding normally with this powder before it starts to jam. You go out clean feed rollers, it works for a while and then your back for the same thing
It is a real bitch fight to convince some customers that their very expensive paper is at fault, but they usually get the message.
See here if you want to know more Anti-set-off spray powder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-set-off_spray_powder)

Cheers.

Aside from spamming this thread, what does your post have to do with the problem dealing with letterhead????

[dogsbody]

Aside from spamming this thread, what does your post have to do with the problem dealing with letterhead????

Whats the problem? You said you didn't know why the colour KM's did this with the letterhead setting, I am giving you an answer, were the hell do you get spamming from?

[Mr Spock]

How is this for adding mud to an already muddy pond...

When printing one sided the paper prints side one on the top side of the paper (as loaded in the tray).
When printing 2 sided documents side 2 is printed first(top of the page in the paper tray) so side one is face down in the output tray. That is why you are getting the results you are getting. If you do not believe me then write side one on a piece of paper put it face up in the tray and print a 2-sided document. This is the nature of most machines.

[Stirton.M]

Whats the problem? You said you didn't know why the colour KM's did this with the letterhead setting, I am giving you an answer, were the hell do you get spamming from?

Sorry about the spam mention, it looked like you were trying to push a product when I first looked at the link you left...a bit related to a spammer post here...see last post in the link... http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/connectivity/37976-scan-ftp-linux.html


The thread has nothing to do with jamming or how it handles paper. The issue at hand is the programming of the letterhead setting function, in that if any tray is set to letterhead, the machine will duplex the page going through from that tray, and if the paper loaded face up (which would be normal on any other tray setting), anything printed to it gets printed to the backside.

[Stirton.M]

How is this for adding mud to an already muddy pond...

When printing one sided the paper prints side one on the top side of the paper (as loaded in the tray).
When printing 2 sided documents side 2 is printed first(top of the page in the paper tray) so side one is face down in the output tray. That is why you are getting the results you are getting. If you do not believe me then write side one on a piece of paper put it face up in the tray and print a 2-sided document. This is the nature of most machines.

I think it also has to do with print order as well, within the driver, you can set the reverse order, as shown in the print dialog...left side, half way down.

5716

[dogsbody]

Sorry about the spam mention, it looked like you were trying to push a product when I first looked at the link you left...a bit related to a spammer post here...see last post in the link... http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/connectivity/37976-scan-ftp-linux.html


The thread has nothing to do with jamming or how it handles paper. The issue at hand is the programming of the letterhead setting function, in that if any tray is set to letterhead, the machine will duplex the page going through from that tray, and if the paper loaded face up (which would be normal on any other tray setting), anything printed to it gets printed to the backside.

Probably could have been a bit clearer, only trying to give some info that I got when training a while back as to why the Konicaminolta colour machines do what they do with the the letter head setting (duplex the page) and why with some offset printed letterhead it can be a problem.

Cheers.

[Albonline]

How is this for adding mud to an already muddy pond...

When printing one sided the paper prints side one on the top side of the paper (as loaded in the tray).
When printing 2 sided documents side 2 is printed first(top of the page in the paper tray) so side one is face down in the output tray. That is why you are getting the results you are getting. If you do not believe me then write side one on a piece of paper put it face up in the tray and print a 2-sided document. This is the nature of most machines.


this is exactly correct.

[tcs04]

How is this for adding mud to an already muddy pond...

When printing one sided the paper prints side one on the top side of the paper (as loaded in the tray).
When printing 2 sided documents side 2 is printed first(top of the page in the paper tray) so side one is face down in the output tray. That is why you are getting the results you are getting. If you do not believe me then write side one on a piece of paper put it face up in the tray and print a 2-sided document. This is the nature of most machines.

I agree!

I believe all copiers will, when printing from the ADF, try to produce a finished sheet "Copy face down" in the finisher to increase speed and output multiple sheets in the correct order. This means that in duplex they will copy the "top" face of the copy paper with the 2nd side image, then invert the paper and copy the "1st" side for direct face down exit. I confirmed this on the Ricoh machine I worked on today which had the same issue! The only solution was to set one tray with the letterhead paper face up (single sided) and another face down (duplex) then set shortcuts on the machine and driver for the seperate jobs.

[swt]

Well, we got it working eventually. Or should I say the Konica engineer got it working after a number of hours. The only way it works on the C280 and C360 is to have the tray set on the printer to Letterhead and to have Paper Type in the driver set to Letterhead for the same tray. I'm surprised we didn't get this before as I thought we had gone through all the options. The paper needs to go in face down but we can live with that.

[JSC]

WOW.................So if you had done what Stirton M said 6 days ago, it would have saved a lot of time!

This is basic stuff, I find it strange you engineer did not run through this on the 1st visit.

[swt]

I think it was Dave10 that asked if the tray had been set for letterhead on the machine but I didn't know where to find that option. I'd been looking for it in the main utility menu and didn't realise that it's set via the Copy menus. I would have saved everyone a lot of time if I'd realised and maybe the engineer assumed I'd tried this.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies and input. I'm just glad is up and running properly (for now!).