Greetings Everyone..

[Rfts]

Hey There, just found this forum recently and I'm not only a newbie in this forum, I'm also a newbie in printing.

[jamesyboy]

welcome to the circus

[blackcat4866]

This is a great place to learn. Welcome. =^..^=

[Rfts]

I am having a tough time choosing between two machines to print my stuff.

First of all, I would like to ask is this the right place to ask such question or should I post somewhere else ??
e-Studio 45
Both of the machines I'm available to get is CANON DIGITAL IMAGERUNNER COPIER IR 4570 and Toshiba e-Studio 455 Multifuntional Printer System.

Edited * The Toshiba machine is brand new but the rental price is a bit expensive compare to the Canon because 4570 is a re-conditioned machine. Which machine would all of you here choose if it is only used to print out B&W pages ?

Another question is, is there any copier machine more appropriate to use to print only B&@ pages ?

[SCREWTAPE]

The 4570 is a good machine, except for some jamming issues, make sure that it has been updated with parts and software. The e-studio, I don't know much of, as I'm a canon tech.

By the way, welcome.

[Rfts]

I mixed up the re-conditioned and the brand new part.

CANON DIGITAL IMAGERUNNER COPIER IR 4570 is re-conditioned and Toshiba e-Studio 455 Multifuntional Printer System is a brand new one.

I'm planning to make around 500k prints per month with either two 4570 or two 455.

So the question is will the jamming issue cause me a major problem since the 4570 is re-conditioned machine ?

[blackcat4866]

Could that be correct? 500K per month?

You'll kill those machines at that volume.
The Canon is rated at a Maximum monthly volume of 170K. A more reasonable average is 1/2 that.
The Toshiba is rated at a Maximum monthly volume of 150K. Again a more reasonable average is 1/2 that.

Are you considering buying five or six of these machines? =^..^=

[Rfts]

Thanks BlackCat for the information provided, I don't really have any experience on copier machine and I come out with that figure from the information the salesman gave me.
Can I know where can I get more information on how people rate copier machines ?

I came out with the calculation by this way, canon 4570 PPM is 45 , so 45 x 60 minutes x 10 hours per day x 20 days per month = 540,000 pages per month. I expect a 50% downtime of each machine, so I thought that 2 machines will be sufficient to do 500k prints per month.

Additional information * I intend to print out only A3 papers

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm really willing to learn.

[SCREWTAPE]

Consider a higher mid copier if 500K is your monthly volume.

[charm5496]

At the minimum I would go with a Canon IR-5070, but if you can support 208V find a cheap IR-7200 or IR-8070. Unit is a workhorse and will last you a long time. Monthly volume is around 200K with a max of 350K. You could go faster with the 8500, 105, 9070 or 105+ but you would probably pay more for them

[blackcat4866]

Thanks BlackCat for the information provided, I don't really have any experience on copier machine and I come out with that figure from the information the salesman gave me.
Can I know where can I get more information on how people rate copier machines ?

I came out with the calculation by this way, canon 4570 PPM is 45 , so 45 x 60 minutes x 10 hours per day x 20 days per month = 540,000 pages per month. I expect a 50% downtime of each machine, so I thought that 2 machines will be sufficient to do 500k prints per month.

Additional information * I intend to print out only A3 papers

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm really willing to learn.

If you seriously intend the volume that you are describing you'll have closer to 75% down time. Assuming that you hired an employee whose only job was to load paper, remove finished jobs, remove jams, and load toner, the machine would not survive long at 10 hours constant running time per day. And that 45 cpm is based on letter size paper fed the 8 1/2" direction. Ledger size pages feed at ~22 cpm, Legal size pages at ~28 cpm. And those A3/ledger size print increment as two copies each on single side, four copies each when duplexed.

This is a common misconception. A photocopier is not a press. The manufacturers recommendations are typically optimistic by a factor of 2x, so in real life you can expect the Canon to survive at an average monthly rate of 17K/2 = 85,000 pages per month.

If you try to do this with two machines, both will be in the dumpster within 3 months. =^..^=

[SCREWTAPE]

Well said Blackcat, well said.

[Rfts]

What if I don't run the machines for 10 hours straight ?? Will it make a difference if I would just run 1 machine for an hour then let it rest for another hour and start again ?

By doing this, each machine will only print out 13500 pages per day and only will be on for 5 hours per day.

Another question is, why would the machines be in the dumpster within 3 months if I run them continuously ? Which part of the machine will spoil ?

Last thing I notice is that you all concentrate more on Canon machines, how bout the Toshiba machine I mentioned ?

[blackcat4866]

If I can speak for Screwtape, we both know more about the Canon. I was more familiar with the Toshiba machines of the 1990's. I try to speak only on subjects that I have some knowledge.

I'll put this in the most basic mathematical terms. 13500 x 30 = 405,000 prints per month
That's 235,000 more copies than the manufacturer recommends, and 320,000 more copies than you can reasonably expect from average use in a single month.

All the parts will fail in short order. But please don't take my advice. I will be much more educational for you to purchase you're two machines now, then in a few months purchase a few more, then in a few months purchase a few more, ...
The servicing company will be more than happy to explain these exact same points to you.

I will return to my original point. A photocopier is not a press, and is not designed for many hour, continuous runs. That is why the manufacturer assigns monthly volume recommendations. =^..^=

[nmfaxman]

You will kill the Toshiba just as fast.
The rubber transport rollers wear each copy, motors wear bearings and paper dust infects sensors.
This is why you will kill a 45cpm machine in months at that volume.

If you are looking at such a high volume, look into a digital duplicator.
They are much faster and use ink which produce a better straight B/W than a copier.
Copiers process grey scales better and have more features.
This will save you money on your high volume and buy a 45cpm machine for the detailed work.

The majoity on this site are techs, not sales.
We have no reason to BS you and it will save a fellow tech the nightmare of servicing a machine that can't handle what you are doing.

[jamesyboy]

500k a month 10 hours a day
is the sales man really quoting on small kit for this

go big ricoh ,you need a printroom machine is3090 06 similar

[Ctl-Alt-Del]

Hey There, just found this forum recently and I'm not only a newbie in this forum, I'm also a newbie in printing.


Welcome

[Rfts]

ok guys, let me get this clear, I calculated that a canon IR 4070 with 45 ppm can produce 13500 copies per day, that is too much for that machine to copy, if i were to print out so much pages a day, a machine with how many ppm is the best with the lowest cost I could get ?

* Reply to jamesyboy, I don't think I can find any ricoh machine here, I'm from Malaysia and most of the machines I see people using here are Canon