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Talligen
09-21-2010, 10:37 PM
Hey everyone. First let me appologize...I'm an IT guy, not a copier guy :)

Now, with that said, I wouldn't be posting here if my service provider was worth anything. They're blaming the power. I say it's the copier. So, here's what's going on.

Almost every morning, we come into the office and the copier is locked-up. The display is blank and pressing buttons doesn't do anything. Obviously, printing and scanning don't work either. The only way to recover is to do hard power-off then turn it back on. Any pending print jobs are resent by the print server. Sometimes this happens in the middle of the day. Some days, this doesn't happen at all. But almost always in the morning. This just started happening in the last few months.

The service provider came in and ran a power test and said our power is out of spec. They said we we're getting 6.5 volts on the neutral line. The electrician came in and said there's no voltage on the neutral line. We moved the copier to 'clean' power in the server room (everyone agreed that it is good power). The next morning, the copier locked up. The service provider says that the bad power has damaged the copier and won't fix the copier until the power issue is fixed first.

They have also reset the copier back to factory defaults and reconfigured it, which again, didn't help.

In the past, we've had 8 other print devices in the room, Kyocera/Mita copier, Lexmark, Ricoh, and HP laser printers. We'ver never had a lockup with any of these other devices.

This is a Konica Minolta BizHub C203 Copier/Printer/Scanner...no fax option. It is connected to the network via CAT5 ethernet. The firmware is:

MFP Controller BOOT Program A02E0Y0-1E00-G00-04(00)
MFP Controller SubSet Program A02E0Y0-1F00-G00-70(00)
MFP Controller A02E0Y0-0100-GGF-R6(00)
Operation PANEL Message Data A02E0Y0-8100-GFD-R6
FAX Board Controller1
FAX Board Controller2
IR A02E0Y0-0023-G00-36
PRT A02E0Y0-0050-G2A-09
ADF A01H0Y0-0024-G00-12
Finisher
Panel Micro-Computer A02E0Y0-8900-G01-02
LCT
Loadable Device Driver
System Controller A02E0Y0-1000-GGF-R6(00)
Printer Controller A02E0Y0-3000-G00-FM
Printer Controller-Font A02E0Y0-3F00-G00-32
Printer Controller-Demo Page A00J0Y0-3E00-G00-00
MIO A02E0Y0-5000-G00-93(00)
PSWC A02E0Y0-5100-G00-10(00)
MIB IF A02E0Y0-5200-G00-J2(00)
IPP IF A02E0Y0-5300-G00-82(00)
External Controller IF
TCP/Socket A02E0Y0-6300-G00-J4(00)
Open API A02E0Y0-7000-G00-12(00)
Operation PANEL A02E0Y0-8000-GF9-R6
CSRC A02E0Y0-8300-G00-80(00)
PIC A02E0Y0-8200-GDG-23


What can I check/do?

Thanks for you help.

Stirton.M
09-22-2010, 01:00 AM
Is there an ESP power conditioner attached? It looks like a large black device roughly two inches thick by 6 inches wide and 10 inches long, has typically 3 AC plugs (one is a rat tail which the copier plugs into) and a long AC cord to plug into the wall. It also has a Cat5 and phone line port (in and out).

Having this will eliminate most power related problems. Calgary has put the law down that no machine is sold without one, we almost never have issues like the one you describe. Of those that have exhibited this problem in spite of the ESP device, it eliminates most power related questions. Any voltage sags in the AC line will not be seen by the copier electronics with one in line.

Of course, if the AC line is really bad, this will not correct the issue.

Other tests you can do are to put an AC polarity tester in the plug to ensure that hot and cold wires have not been mixed and that you have a good ground. These are cheap testers, worth while having in any tool kit for the home...roughtly $10 or so at any home hardware store.

Another tester is a line monitor device. This is not cheap and impractical to purchase for a single use. The device can monitor the AC power line voltage for a long period...typically a day or two and indicate if there are significant problems with the line. Some electricians swear by these. Your copier vendor may have one. We have one ourselves for this purpose, but this is not common from place to place.

Once AC has been eliminated, and the problem persists, there might be problems with the machine. But from personal experience, this is very very rare.

Mr Spock
09-22-2010, 04:33 AM
Have you technician look at the following bulletins

TAUS0801318EN01
TAUS0808375EN01
TAUS0900778EN00

Albonline
09-22-2010, 08:38 PM
Have you technician look at the following bulletins

TAUS0801318EN01
TAUS0808375EN01
TAUS0900778EN00



yea what he said, also try disableing the powersaver/sleep modes.

KM7155
09-23-2010, 01:05 PM
u can try this, try to disconnect the network cable after office hour, and check whether the machine lock up the next morning, so that we can confirm the network is not the problem. HDD sometimes cause some lock up issue as well.

Talligen
09-23-2010, 06:33 PM
Ok, these are great suggestions. Thanks for the input.

Stirton.M: There is an ESP device attached. It is a white box but no network or phone ports. It is model #D11316T

Mr. Spock/Albonline: I would love to ask the tech to look at these service bulletins, but we're now working with the sales rep, simply because the service rep refuses to do any additional troubleshooting. After formatting the hard drive once and running his power quality audit, he's absolutely positive that it's a power issue. I have a hard time believing that because a) the lockups aren't corresponding to any power events, b) the electrician checked and said the power was fine, and c) the technician checked several outlets with his power quality analyzer, including ones in the hallway outside of our office and they all came back with similar readings. I contacted the manufacturer of the device and they said it's a common problem and probably needs to be recalibrated.

So, if I wanted to read these bullitens, how would I get a copy? I searched the KM knowledgebase but they aren't listed. I'm guessing KM doesn't want that information publically available.

KM7155: I won't be able to disconnect the network cable because people are still using it long after I leave for the day and people get in before I come in. But, I did check the print queue on the server. Usually, if there are any pending print jobs, they're held by the server until the copier is rebooted.

This morning, it was locked up again (actually, it locked up at 7:12p last night) but instead of restarting it, I did a little research and documentation. Opening the toner access panel causes the printer engine to restart, lifing the scanner/copier lid causes the scanner bar to initialize. So the printer is reponding to manual events. The control panel had not gone into sleep mode when it locked up, and was still showing all of the menu items. There were three lights turned on, Main Power, Copy Button, and Start Button (which had a blue light). There were no pending print jobs on the server.

While I was writing this post, the service tech sent me an email and said he ordered a replacement hard drive which should be here in a couple of days.

Interesting.

Stirton.M
09-24-2010, 09:40 AM
I looked for those TAD solutions and found nothing there either.

Oddly enough, nothing in the TSB sources on lockups either. You got more info Mr. Spock?

Talligen, there was a suggestion to look at the power settings within administrator mode and turn off power sleep mode. This has been an issue for some earlier generation models and seems to not have been addressed in this line either. It is worth a look.

As for the D11316T, that is what we call in the industry, a complete waste of time device. It is a surge suppressor, not a power conditioner, a glorified power strip with a varistor. Great for surges and things of that nature, lousy for filtering poor power situations, and these sell for about $25 US....about the same for most of these type things.

These are very specific devices that do a lot more than simply protect against surges...a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) is far closer to what I describe, though without the battery that would be found with a UPS device. Power conditioner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_conditioner)

They are not cheap surge protection devices....http://www.realpowerprotection.com/canada/index.php

Konica Minolta does sell these, part number d5133nt, though I cannot find a direct advertising for the device, other than the model number lineup...but Xerox sells the same model device with their own brand name...

Prices vary...I think KMs is more expensive but do not quote me...normally these are placed as part of our sales so I do not know for certain...

https://buy.xerox.com/product.aspx?pid=674

120v 15 amp 3 receptacles - Grayselectronicprotection.com (http://shop.grayselectronicprotection.com/product.sc?productId=6)

KM7155
09-24-2010, 02:25 PM
hope the hdd is the culprit....
just come into mind, is there any ip address conflict?

kon
09-25-2010, 05:14 PM
i can send you the solutions list for the c203 from kmbs website there are many solutions to lockup problems Set up a temp e-mail address for this site so you dont get spamed and post it so i can send you it

Talligen
09-28-2010, 07:02 PM
Mr Spock, thank you for the email.

KM7155, IP conflict...good question. The copier has a static IP and it's not in any DHCP ranges. I'm not getting any IP address conflict alerts either, so I don't think that's the problem. Still, our users have the capability of installing and running a rogue DHCP server, but I'm sure I would still get an IP conflict alert. I'll keep an eye out for that.

Stirton.M, I'd love to put the copier on one of those devices. I suggested it to management and they're reviewing it for inclusion in next years budget.

So, after working with the sales rep and service managers, we made some progress. Last week, my repair tech said that he ordered a new HDD, NVRam, and a control board. My gut feeling says it's the HDD but I think any one of those components may be the culprit. Interestingly, ever since I put a monitor on the internal website (every 15 minutes a server checks to see if the copier's website is up), I've only had 2 lockups...the last one occuring last Thursday. That's 5 straight days (over a weekend) without a lockup.

Like I said, I'm an IT guy, so this question may not be valid. With computers, especially laptops, you can configure power save timers (shuts off after 1 - 30 minutes of inactivity) for things like the screen and the hard drive. Are those components individually configurable on a copier? I'm wondering if the hdd is going into sleep mode before the screen. If the HDD can't wake up from sleep mode, that would explain how the copier locks up when the screen still looks like its awake.

Albonline
09-28-2010, 09:45 PM
Mr Spock, thank you for the email.

KM7155, IP conflict...good question. The copier has a static IP and it's not in any DHCP ranges. I'm not getting any IP address conflict alerts either, so I don't think that's the problem. Still, our users have the capability of installing and running a rogue DHCP server, but I'm sure I would still get an IP conflict alert. I'll keep an eye out for that.

Stirton.M, I'd love to put the copier on one of those devices. I suggested it to management and they're reviewing it for inclusion in next years budget.

So, after working with the sales rep and service managers, we made some progress. Last week, my repair tech said that he ordered a new HDD, NVRam, and a control board. My gut feeling says it's the HDD but I think any one of those components may be the culprit. Interestingly, ever since I put a monitor on the internal website (every 15 minutes a server checks to see if the copier's website is up), I've only had 2 lockups...the last one occuring last Thursday. That's 5 straight days (over a weekend) without a lockup.

Like I said, I'm an IT guy, so this question may not be valid. With computers, especially laptops, you can configure power save timers (shuts off after 1 - 30 minutes of inactivity) for things like the screen and the hard drive. Are those components individually configurable on a copier? I'm wondering if the hdd is going into sleep mode before the screen. If the HDD can't wake up from sleep mode, that would explain how the copier locks up when the screen still looks like its awake.


this unit runs off of the ram/roms, hdd sleeping would not lock up nic. almost all of these type of issues are caused by the network enviorment that the unit is installed to. I have helped troubleshoot lots of these and it usually turns out to be somthing pinging the hell out of the copier. have even seen attacks from russia logged on a port monitoring program.A good monitoring program may pinpoint the problem.

copytechman
09-29-2010, 12:01 AM
How about disabling all of the unused protocols on the machine, eg netware, ftp etc.. I have a bh421 that started to lockup on printing only, would still scan and copy fine, I put it behind a router with my laptop (on the cust network so they could still scan), and no more lockups. Put it back on the cust network and i'd be lucky to get a page or 3 before the printer engine would lockup again.. tried everything I could think of (mfp bd, ic chip etc) no good.. I ultimately turned off a bunch of unused protocols @ KM's suggestion and it stopped locking up on print (so far). I know it's not the same machine but it's network settings are very similar and perhaps it's worth a try. (yes i did try different switch ports etc and installing a switch between main switch and machine, as well as changing the network connect speed etc)

Regards!
A.

Talligen
10-06-2010, 06:27 PM
Well, well, well...the service tech finally came out and replaced the HDD, NVRAM, and Control board last Tuesday.

This morning I came in and found the copier locked up again. It locked up last night between 5 and 6pm. It was in sleep mode but there were no pending print jobs.

Stirton.M
10-07-2010, 11:21 AM
I still stand behind the conditioner recommendation. If you have a UPS, even one with a bad battery in it, try that out and see if it resolves the problem.

kingarthur
10-07-2010, 02:37 PM
We had a Biz C350 with the same problems, after installing the latest firmware, the problem never re occurred

pepper38_cnd
10-08-2010, 01:26 PM
Try this: First disable sleep mode, disable Direct SMB Hosting, set the copier network card to 100M speed, and if you have a 1 Gig programmable switch set the port that the copier is connected to to 100M, if you have a 1 Gig switch that is not programmable put a cheap mini switch between the copier and the network jack. Let me know if you have any more lockups?

Talligen
10-25-2010, 07:19 PM
Bad RAM! That's what was causing the lockups. It's been a couple of weeks now and since replacing the ram (not the NVRAM) the copier hasn't locked up once.

Thank you all for your help. I hope this thread might help you in the future when faced with an intermittant locking-up copier.

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