FS-C5016n Led Array

[luig]

I got bad led array on one of the drum units, all i get is tick marks where that color is to appear on the print. I've changed it from drum to drum, and the problem follows. Is there any way to fix the led array, or does any one have off an old printer?

Thanks,
Luigi

[just a tech]

as far as i know, ya have to replace it...

[knightfall]

There is not serviceable parts on the printhead it must be replaced.

[10871087]

It must be replaced and they are expensive. by the time you buy one of these and a few other parts you can almost justify a new printer. The new generation of that engine is so much better that it is worth looking into before you invest in some spendy parts

[vk4akp]

Hi, We just bought a second hand FS-c5016N and it prints blury and patchy.

A Kyocera tech said it's the LED array that needs cleaning.

Can some one tell me how to get to the LED array and clean it please?

Also can we use metho, alcohol, distilled water? Cotton wool, tissue etc?
How sturdy is the LED array?

We've bought this to produce newsletters for our local radio and computer group.

tnx - Ken
.-.-.

[expom]

You need to remove the toner cartridges,dev and drum units to access the L.E.D's.x 4.Once you have carefully removed the L.E.D's (be careful of the connectors as they are very flimsy) clean the L.E.D face with toothpaste.Alcohol is fine,but we have found that toothpaste works better every time and saves you having to repeat the procedure if the alcohol never completely cleaned it the first time!.First time i did this took me well over an hour from start to finish.:)

[vk4akp]

Hi, thanks for that info.

I spent a good 5 hours carefully disassembling cleaning and reassembling the printer.

We now have reasonably nice clean prints. I think the rest is from the terrible amount of toner spilt through the machine.

Our last problem is that we are getting a terrible crease down the centre of the paper. Sometimes we get a perfect print. But mostly we get this horrible running crease.

Any idea's? we looked at the two orange fuser rollers and they look fine.

You can see test prints etc at the following link.

http://shazam.zapto.org/igal/fs-c5016n

tnx

~Ken
.-.-.

[kyoceradude]

For the creasing problem you will need to replace the fixing assy. There are two levers that the transfer unit push on when istalled to apply pressure to the rollers. They are either bent or the busings are falling apart due to age.

[vk4akp]

Hi, Thanks for the info.

Do you mean the pressure levers, bushes and or possibly bearings in the Fuser unit?

OK. We will look at this.

Thanks.
.-.-.


For the creasing problem you will need to replace the fixing assy. There are two levers that the transfer unit push on when istalled to apply pressure to the rollers. They are either bent or the busings are falling apart due to age.

[kyoceradude]

Hi, Thanks for the info.

Do you mean the pressure levers, bushes and or possibly bearings in the Fuser unit?

OK. We will look at this.

Thanks.
.-.-.


Yes to all of the above....

[vk4akp]

Hi again, we have another curious symptom that may help with this diagnosis.

If we print a full A4 colour page the paper never creases.

It only seems to crease when printing text which is processed through the printer much faster.

Does this give any further hints towards isolating the problem?

We are planning to strip the unit down again soon and remove the fuser unit so we can inspect and lubricate the bearings and bushes. We will also clean the orange rollers (any suggestion as what to clean with?).

But our next problem is that Toner C (Cyan) is now completely empty. We really don't want to invest in another toner until we know if the printer is servicable.

Is there any way to trick the printer into printing with one empty colour toner for further testing?

Also does anyone know a cheap source for a replacement toner? Or perhaps a bulk refill toner supplier for this model?
.-.-.

[expom]

You need to buy a toner. I suggest buying a genuine Kyocera toner as you may give yourself bigger problems. You need to research best prices on the net.

[vikingmita]

the 5016 is total crap. i would not spend any time or money on it, if will fail soon again. get the never series, 5020-5025-5030 or the all new 5100-5200-5300.

[vk4akp]

HUmm. Why is the FS-c5016N crap? Whats crap about them?

And too late. WE just bought another 5016.

Should arrive in about a week.

This one has a brand new boxed Duplexer, 3x spare brand new toners.

Has only done 22000 prints.

We will keep the first unit for spare parts if we can't solve the paper creasing problem.

Fingers crossed on this second unit.
.-.-.

[vikingmita]

unstable developers, calibration sucks-colour starts to float all over, picky on paper quality and thickness-fuser gets f.u. remember thay kyo offered a a and b-kit supposed to fix most problems (new belt and colour devs, etc), but at no great success. sorry, they are crap. only good thing about them is that they got replaced quickly. latest firmware and good quality paper is a must. running colour calibration and registration often are to be expected

[vk4akp]

Oh OK. Thanks for the heads up.

Shame it's a bit late though but that's life.

Oh well we have two now to play with and with spare toners.

(Just waiting on delivery of the second one).

At a total cost of possibly around $500 ish.

If we can get this last one running ok and get a good run out of it with light printing work (Very small radio group, newsletters and so on).

We'll be happy.

Otherwise I guess we part it out and try and recoup our money.

We currently have 5x brand new toners (TK-500_) and a brand new boxed Duplexer (DU-300) so I guess there is some value there alone?

Will the toners and duplexer fit the later better model's you speak of?

If so, perhaps we have an upgrade path there as well?

.-.-.

[Setright]

Returning to the original question:

The LED may well be defective, but I would check the three cable connectors on the LED before finding a new one. A crooked connector or bent/broken pins will cause these sorts of problems.

[vikingmita]

sorry for being so negative, but we had nothing but trouble with those. (and they were expensieve too)

du-300 only fits 5016 and 5020, toner only 5016.

[vk4akp]

Hi,

No that's OK. Honesty is important.

Hopefully we will do ok out of them though having two units.

I've had to clean the led array on the first one and although a reasonably big job for me it was worth while the print quality was very nice after wards.

We won't be printing a lot on these machines so it will be very light duty.

Maybe 500 sheets a month tops. Probably less.

Our first unit was a FS-1800N and we were so happy with it we wanted another Kyocera laser but this time in colour.

The unit on the way up now only has a low page count (22000) and was purchased in 2005 so would have been the last of them, hopefully it has all the U-bewt mod's. :)

See how we go.

I was going to ask also when shipping it, is there any benefit in moving the green toner lock leavers to the unlocked position? Will this close the little door underneath and better limit toner loss in transit?

~Ken
.-.-.

[Setright]

No it won't. Do not do that, you will spill even more toner!

I used to work with Kyocera machines, ten years, so to be frank, I know what I am talking about :-)

The C5016 has a tendency to lose carrier, it was solved by a combination of revised developer units and engine firmware.

Print a status page and look for the engine firmware version. It'll be hiding in a string og numbers and slashes. Should read A024 or higher.

The revised developer units have a black filt strip glued onto one side, if you have the old type, the new firmware is crucial. You can easily upload this engine firmware via the parallel port yourself - I can help you if needed :D

[vk4akp]

OK. Thanks. Yes this is all very interesting stuff.

If you can send me the updated firmware for the FS-C5016N I'd love to have it thanks.

We run the printers on the network here (no USB / Parallel port attached), and I have flashed our old FS-1800N once with no problems.

I'm also looking to get a newer network card for the fs-1800n (IB-22/23) as it hasn't liked windows workgroup networking since we moved everything from Win 98SE to W2k / Xp. Instead we have had to map ports in on every machine using Kprint.

You can see the test prints from each machine in our servers Igal directory.

http://shazam.zapto.org/igal/fs-c5016n
http://shazam.zapto.org/igal/fs-1800

Firmware in the FS-c5016n we have currently reads A026.
I will check the other one when we get it.

You can send any firmware etc to my email. vk4akp@yahoo.com.au

TNX,
~Ken
.-.-.

[Setright]

Mail on the way :D

Check you Spam filter, if you don't get it, the dat files often trigger security systems.

[Setright]

Oops, had to send it again as a zip ;)

[vk4akp]

Got the Flash file, tnx.

Hey just a thought, these things aren't country specific are they?

.-.-.

[Setright]

Well, I don't recall them to be. The main firmware should be the one containing langauge packages.

Even so, the Danish language package also contains English. Look for the word "Sprog", that's the Danish word for language, in the menus if the machine idles with "Klar" instead of "Ready".

[vk4akp]

I won't tell you what the Slang term `Sprog' means in English then. hehe. ;)

.-.-.

[Setright]

Don't need to....I grew up in Singapore and attended an English school ;)

[vk4akp]

Hi, Back again!

Our second FS-C5016N finally arrived today.

The printouts are very badly misaligned.

We have tried the alignment menu but the print is so far out I have no idea what to set.

When we print the status page the colours are out by about 5mm from each other and no where near the black.

Any suggestions how to align it?

.-.-.

[Setright]

Yes. Start by removing the toner and developers. Then click off that grey plastic "rail" that hides the wire connections to the LED's on the drums. Flip the little grey plastic lock on the drums to remove them too.

Each LED is clipped/piovtted in the ends of the drum. Remove them. Check the alignemtn screws for looseness. These control the distance between drum surface and LED. The screws should be locked with a drop of glue from the factory, but if needed you can break this with a screwdriver. The screws must not be loose. There is a little spring washer that keeps them snug, but allows adjustment. Sounds like you might need to adjust.

Be patient, and don't turn the screws more than 90 degrees at a time.

Anyway, if all the screws are fixed and not wobbling around. Re-assemble everything and perform the manual alignment again. Transporting the machine probably shifted things about a bit and re-assembling should get you back on track :-)

[vk4akp]

HI, Thanks for all the help.

I initially pulled the toner carts out and noticed the drum units not seated properly (green clips popped out).

I reseated and aligned and we got one good print. After that it went back to ghosting the colours.

So we completely stripped the inside of the unit right down past the conveyor belt and give it all a good clean.

I also removed the LED array's and cleaned them with metho and a soft cloth.

The LED alignment screws seem fine, however they have no sign of ever having locking glue on them.
The other unit we had did have the locking glue so this is strange. I did not touch the alignment screws as I did not want to tempt fate.

It took me a good 10+ goes at printing the alignment chart and adjusting to get the prints almost perfect.

I am still wondering if the alignment is creeping ??? Is it normal to have to adjust so many times after a rebuild?

The only way to know for sure I guess is to keep using the printer and see what happens.

We are still getting the first quarter of the page on the blank side (back) dirty with what looks like a dusty and water marked imprint.

I assume there is one other section we still need to clean to solve this?? Any idea's?

Also can we remove the fuser unit at the back to try and clean the orange rollers etc and maybe lube the bearings by just removing the two screws and pulling it backwards out the rear?

If worst comes to worst can we swap drum modules and fuser units between the two machines to build a stable machine without having to calibrate anything? IE Trim pots and voltages etc.

So to sum up we now have the following.

Original unit1: Creases paper down the centre (Most likely fuser unit bearings seazing or leavers bent).
Latest Unit2: Dirty dust like toner marks on back first quarter of leading edge of paper. Also possibly allignment still wandering.

[Setright]

The fuser rollers are actually the weakest point on these machines. You can oil them, but it won't last long.

With respect to the dirt on the back side of the prints: Failed belt cleaning unit. You need to remove EVERYTHING to get it out, since it's held in place by the belt...
Vacuuming it might help, but a new unit is the surest way.

[vikingmita]

man, you're putting a lot of work into these. let it go. they are crap. buy a 5020/5025 or 5030 instead. they work.

[vk4akp]

HI Guys, Yes I know we are putting a lot of work into these. But we are committed to them now. We have put too much time and money into them. Both were sold to us as in supposedly good working order. (Which was a lie).

Our group is not in the position to spend any more money on further units.

In the future as much as I like the Kyocera's myself I think we will have to move away from them to a smaller home unit at a cheaper cost with higher running costs. This is a shame. And it's hard to get one that does duplex printing.

But back to the printers.

OK. I will strip the 2nd unit right down again and clean the belt cleaning unit. I didn't realise it pulled out so easily. (Should have read the service manual closer). :)

Now interestingly enough on the 1st unit. I now notice that the orange fuser rollers are hard against each other when the printer is turned off. Unlike the 2nd unit where there is a small gap and the bottom roller can be free spinning.

This is interesting. Something to do with the preasure leavers I think.

So perhaps something can be acheived here as well. We will look into it further.

Keep all the good info coming, I think we are getting closer to a solution with these.

TNX Guys!
.-.-.

[vk4akp]

OK Guys. I'm getting really puzzled where to look now.

Stripped down again #2 Printer (Dirty fantom marks on print).

Cleaned out main waste duct, Waste ducts in drum units, & main transfer belt cleaner duct. Also the fuzzy transfer belt cleaning roller.

I also tried swapping all 3 of the following one at a time between the two printers. (From figure 1-1-3, Page 1-1-5 service manual)

- Paper cassette's. (21)
- Feed unit's. (17)
- Fuser unit's. (18)

None of this effected or transferred the faults between printers. So these items can be ruled out for faults. (Surprisingly enough the fuser units are fine for both printers).

Print quality and colour alignment seems to be stable on both printers at present.

These last two faults are all that's holding us up now.

Printer #1: Still creases the paper down the middle
Printer #2: Leaves dirty bubbly looking stripey faint toner marks on the paper. I stripe is each toner colour, Black, Megenta, Blue, maybe Yellow (not noticable as it's lite).

Here's an interesting clue. With the optional duplexor (DU-300) attached the dirty print section is on the last quarter (bottom of page) of the front (print side) of the paper.

Without the duplexor attached the dirty section is on the leading edge of the back quarter of the page (Top back of page, non printed side).

So, whats next? I'm tipping these are simple faults. I'm just looking in the wrong area. :(

.-.-.

[Setright]

Can you scan a copy with the dirt/stripes on it? And post a link, it would be a lot easier to troubleshoot.

Creases: Paper type and susequent temperature in the fuser may make a difference. You have the option to create 8 "Custom" type papers were you can define thickness.

Oh, are the crease on the direction of travel? Or across?

[vk4akp]

OK, I just swapped the transfer belt assay and belt cleaner assay between the two printers.

Once again, the faults did not move. So these can be ruled out as well.

On printer #1 (paper creasing) I set the paper weight from `Extra Heavy' to `Custom 1' and turned print quality down from `Gloss Mode High' to `Gloss Mode Low'.

I printed two prints and the creasing has gone!. I will need to do many prints to be sure though as I have seen the crease disappear for a few prints now and again. But this is promising. I noticed the difference between the two printers when I printed a menu map.

EDIT: Creases are back. Changing paper weight has not made any difference. :(

Oh the creases run vertically down the page (direction of travel) around the center and wander as they run. usually one but sometimes two creases. Sometimes short sometimes long. Pictures are online already but hard to see as a scan.
http://shazam.zapto.org/igal/fs-c5016n
The first picture shows the crease the best.

On printer #2 (Dirty prints) I can scan a print sample and put it online. Not sure if I will get it done tonight though as I have put in a full day on these things again and it's past midnight here again.
If I get the scan's online it will be in the following link.
http://shazam.zapto.org/igal/fs-c5016n-2

The dirty section is very interesting.

It is worse on the first print after the printer has sat a bit.
It is like horizontal rainbow residue marks like something has sat against left over toner dust. (My guess is a long thin roller).
It leaves a distinct centermeter wide fuzzy and like mini puddle marks one after the other in each colour.

Without the duplexor installed it's always on the top back of the page (Leading edge, unprinted side)
With duplexor installed its on the bottom of the printed side (trailing edge, Front).

[I'm doing the scans now, they should be online in the next few minutes]

TNX again!
.-.-.

[vikingmita]

ok. like i said 2 months ago: i would not spend any time or money on these machines. your machines have all the faults i've seen on the 5016. you need to stop now, and i'm not saying this to be funny or evil or anything. 5016 IS crap. get 5015-5020-5025-5030 , or even better: the new series; they work and they are a lot cheaper.

1: creasing comes from wrong/uneven pressure on fuser rollers. and it can be various reasons. we're talking 5 year old machines here. lube and cleaning will not help you if the rubber is hard or faulty. only safe cure is a brand new fuser, and still it's going to be picky on paper quality. worst thing is that your creasing is the least of your problems: your colours are fucked up (lack magenta to the left), and you have 'shades'. what you're looking at here is all new drums, all new dev, maybe a brand new belt and maybe change the high current pcb. you can be lucky and run colour calibration+drum refrech (hopefully fix magenta) and switch black and yellow drum (hopefully get rid of black 'shades' by moving them to yellow) and get away with some of it, but you'd be better of trying the power ball lottery. this machine is useless.

2: except for need of some colour calibration, it doesn't look that bad. there are 3 vertical streaks to the right, and i guess that's a mark/cut on the fuser roller judging on the space between them. the dirty back is because, like i said, the fuser is picky on paper (and belt cleaning). if you run 10-15 blank pages, it will clean up, but after 2-3 colour ones it will revert to 'dirty'. so as far as i can do a long distance diagnose, both problems adress your fuser on this one, and they are not free.

there's one chance for you to get one working unit of the two: fiddle around with fuser rollers on machine no.2, interchange them, lube, test and pray to something if you believe in stupid things in the sky.

bottom line: scrap both of them. you've been playing around with them for 2 months now. it's time for their final resting place.

[vk4akp]

No, I don't think you have followed the thread fully.

We have good colour and good colour alignment on both printers after a clean and rebuild and align.

Printer #1
http://shazam.zapto.org/igal/fs-c5016n/13.html
Printer #2
http://shazam.zapto.org/igal/fs-c5016n-2/1.html

(Ignore the few black streaks and slight colour misalignment on these prints as I haven't realigned after several strip downs and rebuilds. But believe me the colour is good and aligns well. In fact no alignment has been run on either machine after several strip and rebuilds and it's still close! Oh the black bits cleaned up after 2-3 prints. This was only at the last rebuild [dirty spot is my guess]).

We have swapped fusers, belts assay, belt cleaner, paper tray, paper feed unit all one at a time between both machines.

The faults never move between printers or disappear.

So this tells me the fuser's and all these items are OK. Otherwise the fault would move.

We can not scrap the machines. We have paid too much for them and have two many accessories (5x new TK-500_ toners, DU-300 duplexor [new]), 2x complete printers. Some toners in machines half to full still.

We are a small non proffit group. If we give up then we have no printer for a year or more until we raise funds again. More likely 2+ years.

We were sold both machines discribed as good working order. (Where is the honesty these days) :(

These last two faults seem so simple. I believe I am just missing something.

Its not the fuser otherwise swapping fusers would have solved this.

Also the orange rubber on the fuser rollers is still fine and the bearings are good also.

3x vertical streaks to the right were only after the last rebuild and cleaned up after only 2 prints. (My guess was a spill or dirty mark).

If we can build one good unit out of the two that solves our problem.

Oh, I do see that the megenta is a bit lite on with the 2nd printer at times but I think thats because the megenta toner is close to empty and the printer just doesn't know it yet.

.-.-.

[vk4akp]

Sorry I stand corrected. On Printer #2 the lack of Magenta is the Magenta developer unit. The seller included a technicians report that lists this as a fault from 2005. He originally said it was lack of toner. But reading the report included tells a different story.

If we can work out whats causing the paper creasing on Printer #1 though we should still be able to build one good one form the two I would hope.

.-.-.

[Setright]

I concur: You should be able to keep at least one machine running reasonably, with the second as back-up/ spares.


The dirt on the back of the paper has got to be the cleaning unit (CL-500). If it only cause problems in one machine, that may be due to different conditions on the belt...or it's a mystery.
I saw a lot printers with this fault, and a new CL500 solved it every time. The unit was revised and the faults didn't come back.
If you cannot get a new cleaning unit, then that machine becomes the parts machine.

The creases: Try using 100gram/sqm paper. It might cost a bit more, but it won't crease so easily and will give you better print quality.

[vk4akp]

Hi,

We tried swapping the belt assay and belt cleaning unit between the two machines. The dirty print fault stayed with the same machine (Printer #2).

This is so very strange. I'm sure it's starring me in the eye. I'm just not seeing it.

I did also pull both belt cleaning units apart and totally removed all the toner (they were very full in the worm drive). But this made no difference also.

I think there is an answer to this puzzle though. When the duplexor is added, the dirty print is on the front bottom of the page. With no duplexor it's on the top back of the page. So the paper travels in a different path causing the leading edge to change I guess? Maybe this doesn't help? I dunno. Another late night working on it in a sec. lol.

And the creasing of the paper with Printer #1, changing the fuser over does not change this. So can't be the fuser. More mysteries.

I do wonder about the plastic path ribs on the back of the printer and the top cover with output rollers. Is it possible it's creasing there some how?

I will try and swap these across also tonight.

Original owner of Printer #2 is now trying to say he had Magenta dev unit replaced. But the paperwork does not say this.

Oh one last interesting thing.

With Printer #1, when printing a full page gloss print, like a photo etc, it never creases. It is more likely to crease when there is just minimal text printed on the page. Very strange.

.-.-.

[Setright]

Yes, you can try to check all the "ribs"/guides that direct the paper. A small notch can catch the leading edge of the paper and cause it to bunch up.

Cleaning unit thing, is a mystery I guess.

The duplex unit on/off happens because the back side is printed first during duplex.

[vk4akp]

Well, I know where the problem lies with printer #1. (Paper creasing).

It is definately a plastic ribbing guide that is gouging the paper.

It's funny, we've been looking at all the major parts, fuser etc. And it turns out to be the simplest things. :)

OK, I'm not sure what's causing it yet or how to solve it but it's the back ribbing path of the printer. The paper is gouged out (raised) on the print side.
And it lines up with the ribbing in the back of the printer.

After the paper leaves the fuser there is a roller train on the fuser that helps it up, where it meets a second roller train in the middle of the back, then finally to the top of the lid where the last roller train pulls it through.

All of these trains seem to be run from the same gearing system.

My guess is that two sets are fighting each other and pulling the paper too tight and tight against the ribbing.

The questions is which ones where and why??

My guess is the rollers in the lid. Because the crease starts after the first inch or so and finishes 2/3 down the page which would be after the middle roller train lets go.

As a temporary measure I have swapped over the fuser unit and the back cover on the two printers.

So far no creasing paper, but this is an intermittent problem (The worst kind) so only time will tell.

The last thing to try and swap across is the lid. This doesn't look easy though as I haven't quiet worked out how it comes off. the manual is vague. Seems to me to be 4 screws that are impossible to get at. :(

Printer #2 still continues to dirty the pages with mainly little blue puddles. I am still at a loss yet where to look further with it.
I can imagine though that if the transfer belt is not being cleaned properly then there would be some residue dropped through on to the plastic of the fuser and picked up on the back of the page.

More thought needed here. hopefully it will be another simple solution stareing me in the face. :)

.-.-.

[Setright]

Ribbing....I can't recall anymore if it was the 5016 or the 3800 (B/W) but I did once find that the paper was exiting the fuser and one corner was just OFF the ribbing. It rubbed on the side of the rib and created a deep scratch which in turn started to grasp the paper and cause creasing.

I added some thickness to the rib by cutting out some clear plastic (2mm thick) and gluing it on the side face of the rib.

Hope that makes a bit of sense. It's been more than two years since I last worked on a Kyocera...

[vk4akp]

Hi guys! Still at it.

The main FS-c5016N is printing ok for now but it does have a faint stripe (lack of megenta we think) across but offset from the center of the page.

We think this will just be a simple drum swap from the other unit when we get time.

There is also a squeak in the unit now when running. But this could be the un even surface flexing the unit. (Table is bowed a bit).

Now our next big question.

We have found a FS-c5025n with duplexor and second draw.

Are the internals compatable for parts with the FS-c5016n to any degree?

The fs-c5025n has a black stripe throught the print aparently.
.-.-.

[vikingmita]

aiaiai. you deserve an applaud for stamina, thats for sure.

faint stripe can be drum, dev, 'brain' or leds. unfortunately my guess is dev. run colour calibration from meny first anyways.

squeaking is prob. exit rollers/shafts as they are plastic in plastic.

partnumbers on internals in 5016 and 5025 are different, so bookwise nothing will be interchangable. seeing as they have different toner, and the fact that the 5025 actually works, i guess it's true in real life too. spend your time on the 5025, dump the 5016

[vk4akp]

Hi Guys, wow it's been so long!

Well some good news!

We now have a 3rd (Number #3) Kyocera FS-c5016N !!! Isn't life wonderful!!. ;)

It's print is the worst of all. But we have not stripped down and cleaned it as yet.
It also comes with a duplexor. :)

I will post links to pictures and info as soon as I have time to work on it.

Our other FS-c5016N continues to run OK but still with a slight faded stripe in the print.

More FS-c5016N fun to follow soon! :)

.-.-.

[vk4akp]

Hi Guys.

Still playing with these FS-c5016N's.

I think we have about 4 units now (3 for parts).

The one we use has developed a new problem.

When printing as specially when it has sat off for a while all the black toner doesn't stick to the paper.

The prints come out with the black hanging everywhere from the paper like spiders webs.

Any idea what this could be?

.-.-.