PDA

View Full Version : Konica c650 Scanning Issue.


Custom Search


Synaux
05-20-2012, 03:58 AM
This is a new machine (well, bought used), so I am not sure when this issue arose.
Anyways, on a full 11x17 scan the end of the scan gets a yellow/brownish corner. It only does this on hand placements.

See this scan (the brown section is from the end of the scan--the last portion of the platen to be scanned):
15904

I have cleaned and physically inspected all the relevant parts--there appears to be nothing amiss.
Due to a different issue the machine was reset in system settings. So it does not appear to be some weird setting from the prior owner(s).
Any ideas? :)
Thanks!
Nick

morpk
05-20-2012, 04:51 AM
when you go into tech rep mode have there been any error log's in regards to the CCD unit ?

Synaux
05-20-2012, 05:11 AM
when you go into tech rep mode have there been any error log's in regards to the CCD unit ?

I wrote down all prior errors upon arrival of the machine, and then reset it.

I have "S-1 CCD GAIN (1)"


"16.2 Solution
16.2.1 S-1: CCD gain adjustment failure
16.2.2 D-1: Split line detect
16.2.3 D-2: Read guide trouble
Relevant parts
Scanner assy CCD sensor unit
Image processing board (IPB)
Step Action
1 Correct the harness connection between CCDB and IPB if faulty.
2 Check for possible extraneous light and correct as necessary.
3 Clean the lens, mirrors, CCD surface, and shading sheet if dirty.
4 Correct reflective mirror of the scanner if faulty, or change scanner.
5 Change CCD sensor unit.
6 Change IPB."


I can look into D-1/2, soon.
However, the error has not been replicated after the reset (after a month or so of usage)....I just noticed a
"p-14 Skew correction trouble (1)"
aside from that, no other errors.

Thanks for replying!
--Nick

morpk
05-20-2012, 05:23 AM
So if i'm reading this correctly those were the error's in the machine you have now reset them to have a fresh look,
if you were to walk up and use the copier right now that is the output you would get and no error would be recorded correct ?.
do you have parts available to you?, for some reason my gut is telling me i would change the CCD unit prob a f*ck colour filter but IPB is a quick change so maybe start with that if that doesn't work then change the CCD unit ?


also i'm sure you have check this put just putting it out there, this only happens on scanning right not printing ?

Synaux
05-20-2012, 05:38 AM
if you were to walk up and use the copier right now that is the output you would get and no error would be recorded correct ?.

Yes, sans the p-14 error


do you have parts available to you?, for some reason my gut is telling me i would change the CCD unit prob a f*ck colour filter but IPB is a quick change so maybe start with that if that doesn't work then change the CCD unit ?


I have zero parts...I wish I did...


also i'm sure you have check this put just putting it out there, this only happens on scanning right not printing ?

Only on scanning :)

morpk
05-20-2012, 07:30 AM
what happens when you do a B&W only scan ?

mrwho
05-20-2012, 10:59 AM
Sounds to me that if the problem were the CCDs then the brownish area would be all along the scanning area covered by the damaged CCDs and not just on the corner.

It looks like a mechanical problem to me - check the mirrors, the carriages and the lamp and CCD positioning - looks like the scanner is bent or dislodged at that place.

blackcat4866
05-20-2012, 12:09 PM
We came across something like this when installing one of those book copying rigs on a Sharp Whale series color AR-BC260. It required adding a different light source 2/3 with adhesive tape (it was super high tech). We soon discovered that the optics were very poorly focused, and the machine would no longer color calibrate in any meaningful way and had reddish brown background, getting worse the further you get down the scan. After two days of loud cursing, we ended up removing the book copying rig, doing the color calibration, then re-installing it. After many attempts at re-focusing the optics we finally got it to the point where you're at. It's reasonably focussed up to about 12" in the sub scan direction, after that gets a brownish cast.

That's my long way of saying that I think it's all about optical focus. Look for evidence of shipping damage, or some other cat-astrophic impact to the scanner. =^..^=

Mr Spock
05-20-2012, 02:40 PM
one of the mirrors (i would guess 3) is about 1-2 mm out of alignment.

Synaux
05-20-2012, 07:50 PM
We came across something like this when installing one of those book copying rigs on a Sharp Whale series color AR-BC260. It required adding a different light source 2/3 with adhesive tape (it was super high tech). We soon discovered that the optics were very poorly focused, and the machine would no longer color calibrate in any meaningful way and had reddish brown background, getting worse the further you get down the scan. After two days of loud cursing, we ended up removing the book copying rig, doing the color calibration, then re-installing it. After many attempts at re-focusing the optics we finally got it to the point where you're at. It's reasonably focussed up to about 12" in the sub scan direction, after that gets a brownish cast.

That's my long way of saying that I think it's all about optical focus. Look for evidence of shipping damage, or some other cat-astrophic impact to the scanner. =^..^=

I will look into the settings for focus when I get in front of the machine again. And I love your sense of humor and story =)

Synaux
05-20-2012, 07:57 PM
what happens when you do a B&W only scan ?
Good question! I have no idea, I will report back soon :)


Sounds to me that if the problem were the CCDs then the brownish area would be all along the scanning area covered by the damaged CCDs and not just on the corner.
It looks like a mechanical problem to me - check the mirrors, the carriages and the lamp and CCD positioning - looks like the scanner is bent or dislodged at that place.


one of the mirrors (i would guess 3) is about 1-2 mm out of alignment.

Well...like have inspected everything quite thoroughly; nevertheless, you both may be correct. Konica made it much more difficult to get into the optics than necessary...looks like I might be in for a bit of a chore.

907tec
05-21-2012, 07:36 PM
Just had this exact same thing happen on a C451. It is definitely the optics. There are a couple things to check, all related to the alignment of the optics and scanner frame. Firstly, make absolutely sure that each of the mirrors are installed correctly and are resting against the metal tabs on each side. I had to check my mirrors three times before finding one that was slightly out of alignment. Second, make sure that the mirror/lamp assemblies are installed correctly and evenly: follow the setup procedure in the manual, measuring the gap between frame and carriage. If you are still getting the shadow after carrying out these adjustments, check the platen glass. On one of my machines, the platen glass was unable to lay flat because of damage to the support frame. Remove the plastic covers surrounding the platen and take off the two retainer clips for the glass. Check to see if the glass "wobbles" or "rocks" while sitting on the scanner frame. On our machine, we had to completely remove one of the frame pieces that the platen rests on. After removing and hammering/bending the frame, the glass was able to sit level again.

TL;DR -
Your optics ain't straight.

Albonline
05-22-2012, 02:30 PM
TL;DR -
Your optics ain't straight


this is the correct track. scope the optics out, there is someting out of wack. check the at the position where your image starts to change color. i've seen the 2/3 frame wobble during scans, and have seen both mirror frames bent by tech's pushing too hard on them while cleaning.

Synaux
05-27-2012, 07:57 AM
Everyone, I greatly appreciate your responses and will act accordingly once I get in front of this machine.
It might be a week or two before I update again, but based one the info given I just might have the answer! :cool:


I just did not want anyone to feel I ignored them :)

Synaux
05-27-2012, 08:00 AM
"The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 2 characters."

My comment:
Please add a delete comment option! !@#$@#!$!@#$@! (or did I miss it?)

blackcat4866
05-27-2012, 08:05 AM
I don't think you can do that, anyway. =^..^=

Synaux
06-10-2012, 06:25 AM
I don't think you can do that, anyway. =^..^=
Word...lolz

Synaux
06-10-2012, 06:47 AM
**Okay Update**

It was the mirror. After several hours of trial and error, me and my two fellow *ahem* geniuses were running out of options. And I mean we tried just about everything.

After some hours, the options were becoming increasingly unattractive, such as, CCD replacement and board replacements.

So in a paroxysm of frustration, I grabbed each mirror and put quite a bit of pressure on them in a controlled jiggle fashion. Finally, the mirror in question snapped (quite loudly) into place and there was a moment of disbelief and joy--we realized that something profound just happened.

Well everything was fixed, sans a very small yellow spot in the same corner.
There was some merriment and the day concluded.

The sad part of this story....I tried several methods for curing the leftover yellow spot, and concluded that the bottom mirror was still slightly skewed or even flawed in some way. So as I was working on something else, my young coworker unbound the scanner drive cable and created a REAL mess. As a result, the plastic shielding was breached on a few spots, and I fear I will have to replace the entire "scanner drive cable" (perhaps, I might be able to remove the shielding and use grease...but there are some minor kinks too).

You guys helped out a lot!

Now, maybe someone will help out and sell me a scanner drive cable for cheap.....lol

--Nick

blackcat4866
06-10-2012, 01:38 PM
**Okay Update**

It was the mirror. After several hours of trial and error, me and my two fellow *ahem* geniuses were running out of options. And I mean we tried just about everything.

The sad part of this story....I tried several methods for curing the leftover yellow spot, and concluded that the bottom mirror was still slightly skewed or even flawed in some way. So as I was working on something else, my young coworker unbound the scanner drive cable and created a REAL mess. As a result, the plastic shielding was breached on a few spots, and I fear I will have to replace the entire "scanner drive cable" (perhaps, I might be able to remove the shielding and use grease...but there are some minor kinks too).

--Nick

Oh, the horror! Back in the 90's when scanner cable replacement was considered normal maintenance, it didn't take long to learn that scanner wire ropes were best left unmolested whenever possible. I'm sure you don't have the factory jigs to help you hold the cable as it is installed, but you can use such low tech aids as black tape, and 14 gauge copper wire to hold the loops of cable in place while guiding it to it's final path. If possible, I would find another of it's breed and snap a dozen photos of each loop, pulley, and eventually the pinch bracket, and final hook. This way you can be sure you're doing it right. Even in the day, there were never really good instructions. The best that you can hope for is a good routing diagram.

Congratulations on you're **success**. =^..^=

Synaux
06-10-2012, 10:44 PM
Oh, the horror! Back in the 90's when scanner cable replacement was considered normal maintenance, it didn't take long to learn that scanner wire ropes were best left unmolested whenever possible. I'm sure you don't have the factory jigs to help you hold the cable as it is installed, but you can use such low tech aids as black tape, and 14 gauge copper wire to hold the loops of cable in place while guiding it to it's final path. If possible, I would find another of it's breed and snap a dozen photos of each loop, pulley, and eventually the pinch bracket, and final hook. This way you can be sure you're doing it right. Even in the day, there were never really good instructions. The best that you can hope for is a good routing diagram.

Congratulations on you're **success**. =^..^=

I love low tech aids! :cool:
That is a good idea with 14 gauge copper wire and black tape--I have been using scotch tape and rubber bands--lol.

This is a total pain in the arse though! I have had it almost together something like 8 times, but something always screws it up at the very end :mad:

However, the service manual is fairly straight forward, and the cable paths are quite simple on this machine (once once one clears his/her head and approaches it without emotion).

Another thing I might try because this is so finicky in the final process is go buy some very large plastic/neoprene washers and install them next to the winding rollers--the rollers that you have to wind the cable around 10 times in two directions.
If there is any slop in the cable it will unravel and promptly come off the roller. If I can at least keep the cable on the roller I can take a flathead screwdriver or whatever and align the cables so that they are not crossed after making adjustments. Afterward the washers can be cut off or left on (depending on if they get in the way)

I will take some picts of this if it works.

Thanks for the reply blackcat!
--Nick

remati
06-14-2012, 10:18 PM
I will look into the settings for focus when I get in front of the machine again. And I love your sense of humor and story =)

..one of the mirrors is out of the place.....
..in A4 the copy and scan is good ?

Synaux
06-15-2012, 04:04 AM
..one of the mirrors is out of the place.....
..in A4 the copy and scan is good ?

You are correct, one of the mirror was out of place. Thanks for the response.
(Maybe you replied before reading the second page though? This issue as been resolved.)

Also, to update this entire post: I installed the cables, but have yet to put all the other components back on the machine. Keeping my fingers crossed until tomorrow.

Custom Search