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Desert Rat
10-26-2012, 11:16 PM
:confused:
Naturally the odd problems plague me on Friday.

Customer got this unit in and ran about 20K on it and now he is getting a lite black band
down the center.
It is coming from the black DV unit. I saw a fat spot in the middle of the mag roller toward the top
of the roller. It was fat enough to touch the drum and leave a mark and ghost images.
The job is on glossy paper, 100lb. He has run about 5000 of these and now down to the last
1000 it starts this.
This machine just came in from the left coast, I'm told it sat in a warehouse for up to 5 or 6 months.
I did a toner refresh when I started working on it. Now it has been in the field for about 2 weeks.
On the details page where the consumable life is shown it sez 46% used. But the date sez 11/15/06.

He is running this through his Ikon pro 80 fiery. He ran 10 pages after I hand turned the DV unit.
The first two or three showed slightly the problem then it got worst.
I made copies right afterwords and they all came out clear. I used the same paper.
The chargers look clean and drums are at about 45%.

My customer is up aginst a dead line. Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks

DR

Shadow
10-27-2012, 12:00 AM
if you have a new developer for the machine great, if not empty the dev out so you can reuse it.
pull the mag roller and clean the crap out of it with a green scrub pad, then wipe it down with alcohol.
make sure the mag roller is clean and dry, then reassemble the unit and add the developer.
if its new dev then run your setup process, if not run your tests and make sure its adding the toner.
test the crap out of it. I have been able to get clients up and running using this method.

Desert Rat
10-27-2012, 05:18 PM
Shadow,
How did you figure that out? I suspected a flow problem
of some kind. So I took the top off hoping to find a clump
of toner. Everything looked normal. Hand turned it, nothing
came up. So I went for some developer. When I came
back, on the advice of Rrodgers, I swapped the cyan &
black drum. Ran 25 pages, looked good, 25 more, OK.
He ran 1000 pages and finished his job on time.
And all looked good.
I will check on this unit next week.
Both the drums looked in good shape and the life was
about 45% on all the drums.
Shadow,
I remember I used to clean the mag roller on some Kodak
machines like that because it improved the flow.
They would build up a brown film between the developer
and the roller. That would affect the brush on the mag
roller.
Well swapping the drums was a quicker fix for 5:30pm Friday.

Thanks Rrodgers and Shadow

DR

Desert Rat
11-01-2012, 06:34 AM
:(
It's back, this black band down a page that is mostly yellow.
I will see this tomorrow, Shadow, I may get a chance to use
your suggestion.
A fat spot on the upper center of the mag roller is what
I saw last time.

DR

Desert Rat
11-03-2012, 11:06 PM
Yesterday, I cleaned up the transfer belt unit. The transfer rollers had a magenta tint. I dry cleaned them
the best I could, cleaned hard rubber with a water damp cloth, didn't help.
Today, Saturday, I cleaned out the black dv unit and cleaned the mag roller.
All seemed to go normally, except now it is stuck in please wait warming up.
I have been waiting at least an hour, recycled the pwr a couple of times, reset
the fuser section a couple of times. The fuser feels warm enough for 20lb paper.
What did I do? What am I missing??

Recycle the pwr again and recycle pwr on fiery at same time.

Thanks

DR

Shadow
11-04-2012, 01:17 AM
did you remove the toner sensor from the dev unit before you cleaned it ?
double check the connectors and the grounds for the unit.
power off the fiery and the machine.
restart the machine only while holding down the utility/counter button and check settings in the service mode.
reset the appropriate counters.
its also possible that you have a bad printer control board as well.

Desert Rat
11-04-2012, 04:07 AM
Shadow, Thanks for the reply.
Yes I did remove the toner sensor before vacuuming the
DV unit. I didn't use a scotch brite but I did have a fiber
filter that was not as abrasive. And cleaned it with alcohol.
Everthing seemed normal, I was able to enter service the
usual way and reset the black DV, I ran the toner sensor
program to set the mix level & auto gamma.
It let me select and run all programs until
I went to print out a test print for the printer gamma sensor
offset manual adjust and all it would say is warming up.
I checked all the settings I selected, OK.
I double checked the connectors and kept the door open
long enough so I knew it have to warm up. And I watched.
The lower fuser lamp was not coming on. It turns all four of
upper lamps on and off as it turns.
And it felt warm enough for the 20lb I had selected.
This was the last thing I found, I was out of time today.
Monday I will check the lamp for an open. I hope that's all
it is.

DR

ineo+6501
11-05-2012, 09:36 AM
I've had problems with the video cable that connects the Fiery to the machine, it can cause a symptom like you have.
It would explain why the problem doesn't appear on copies. The black band usually covers most of the page in my case though.
It would be worth removing and refitting the cable.

Desert Rat
11-05-2012, 02:45 PM
ineo+6501,
That actually makes sense given the symptoms.
It's quick and easy.
I will give this a try, but it does not explain why
there is a fat spot on the mag rlr or why I got this
on some copy with the fiery off. Unless it just takes
a few more copies to clear it up than I ran.
I will see this machine this morning.

Thanks

DR

Desert Rat
11-07-2012, 08:15 PM
:confused:
Today I got a C3911 and a C3912 code. 3911 sez lower roller did not
heat up fast enough and the 3912 sez the belt did not get hot enough.

I have ohmed all thermistors, thermostats and lamps for the fuser section.
The upper lamps do come on and the rollers turn, but nothing from the
lower lamp.
I also checked the ACDB for signs of arcing and sparking (none found)
also reseated all connectors on the board and in the general area.
I also disconnected all option connected to the machine, no change.
Everything seemed normal 'cept for the lower lamp not heating up.
I have looked at the connector on the back of the fuser and in the
machine. They look normal.

I had just done a black dv change and this started.
Does the ACDB just fail like that?

Comments please

DR

Desert Rat
11-09-2012, 07:00 PM
Update:

The other day I did a visual check to see if the upper lamps were coming on and from what I could
see they were. But I could not see the ends of all the lamps, so I got thrown off track by an assumption.
Today I found one of the three upper lamps is open. I have not been able to see if there is a series
connection with these lamps. Does anyone know for sure?

Also I checked the line voltage and it reads 248.5VAC. I know this is over the 240VAC rating. Just thought
I would mention it in case someone knows if this is to much.

Thanks


DR

Desert Rat
11-14-2012, 03:32 PM
I replaced the upper fuser lamps and it warmed up normally and I was able to make copies. My customer ran a few things,
not enough to satisfy me but the print looked OK except for for some streaks. Some of which line up with wear I see
on the transfer belt. According to the machine the transfer belt has 552K on the part meter.
I recommended changing this before it went out to the customer, but sales said no, it is making a good copy now. And
sales also said these have been know to go past their rated page count. I told them I agree but this unit was sitting
for awhile and it can only go so far before it's worn out. This problem did not show up with the paper I was running
in the shop. Shop paper is always stored loose and unwrapped for the most part. I had some heavy paper, but not
as heavy as the customer is running.

How far past its rated mileage can the transfer belt reasonably go?

I see that the transfer belt part numbers from the C500 and C5500 are different.
Is it possible that I could put in an entire C500 transfer belt in the C5500 and
have it work?

Thanks

DR

Shadow
11-14-2012, 04:14 PM
I personally would tell the sales department to stuff it and go ahead and replace the transfer belt.
If they place that machine and the client does not like the copy / print due to the streaks, then you may not have the machine there for very long.

If the part numbers are different, then there is a difference in the parts. they may look identical from the outside, but there may be a change on the internal parts.
I just wish that Konica Minolta would standardize their parts system and have a good cross reference list of what works for each machine.
that would save so much on doubling up of parts. JMHO

Desert Rat
11-15-2012, 03:48 AM
Shadow,

I made my case and they will spring for the belt. Customer will
buy the blade.
You are right about standardizing the part numbers, it would
make it easier for the dealer. But this is a revenue generating
gimmick. This way you keep 1 of a couple of different part
numbers, when you could get away with stocking 1 item
for three different models.$$
I think I will just have to get the two side by side and see for
myself. Now at least I will have a belt from the C5500/C6500
to try on the Pro C500.
I feel better now anyway.

Thanks

DR

Mick01
11-19-2012, 05:43 AM
Hi Guys,
FYI the transfer belt is different between C500 and C6500. The belt on C6500 is thinner. I wouldn't try C500 transfer belt in C6500, you might get some interesting results

Desert Rat
11-19-2012, 01:43 PM
Mick01,
Thank you for that information. Would you happen to know if the whole assembly would fit and work.
I have another belt coming in for this machine. I'm just curious, the transport assemblies look the
same. But I have not had the chance to do a side by side comparison.

Thanks

DR

Mick01
11-19-2012, 10:14 PM
The transfer belt assembly from C500 will fit into a C6500/01. There are a couple of issues though which i will outline.
C500 transfer belt is thicker so 1st transfer may be insufficient if fitted to a C6500/01
C6500/01 transfer belt unit has been modified to stop transfer belt marking inside (causes dark line in the sub scan direction). This used to be a big problem on C500 and the early C6500's
Hope this helps

Desert Rat
11-20-2012, 03:56 AM
:)
Mick01,
That was a lot of help, now I won't waste my time trying
to figure it out. Thank you.
Today I picked up the transfer belt and will install it
tomorrow.

DR

Mick01
11-20-2012, 04:53 AM
My Pleasure,
Hope it all goes ok with the fitting of the transfer belt:)

Ab_NL
06-19-2013, 08:24 AM
Hello desert rat,

can you add some samples to your call as I can see how it looks like.
It looks like we are experiencing the same problems on a couple of engines at our customers.
After we placed the new firmware (70-GN3) together with the new type of drums (DU104) these problem seems to appear.
replacing the developer (including the developer unit) temporarily solves the problem.
Also changing the drums between Cyaan and Black solves the problem (i think, also temporarily)
Changing the AC bias fine adjustment for black from 0 to +5 seems the best solution.

What is clear to me is that this happens only on heavy paper (>250 grams)
If you select the same drawer but put it on a 200 grams setting there is no image problem.

I am very interested in the scan of your problem, can you attach this one please?
21168

Regards, Ab

Desert Rat
06-20-2013, 05:38 PM
Ab_NL,
The sample you provided, as I recall, is very close to what I saw. I took the advice of
Shadow and Rrodgers and cleaned the mag roller. I also replaced the dv mix and
adjusted per the book. This happened last year and that customer has gone out of
business and the next customer with that machine has called me for a check out. I have
not seen that unit now for over 6 months.
Generally when I swap things around I am looking to see if I can make an improvement in
the problem. Then I will have an idea of what I am looking for, a bad drum or charger etc.

If you do this remember to remove the toner sensor. After that I vacuumed out all the toner
and dv mix. Cleaned the mag roller with the fiber filter and wiped with alcohol. That took
care of the problem as far as I knew.
When that customer calls back in I will check this out. My guess is that the problem is gone.


Hope that helps

DR

Ab_NL
06-20-2013, 09:42 PM
Dr,
thanks for your reply, even though it's a long time ago you have had this problem.
We will sure test your solution on one of the upcoming calls, unfortunatly we have to many of them at this moment.
Can you confirm that the problem is only visible on the output at a paperweight-setting above the 250 grams?

When I load paper above 250 grams in the tray but make the selection as if it is 160 grams, there is no problem.
Also, when selection is above 250 grams and there is 100 grams paper in the tray, the band/stripes are visible

We see this particular problem in two different shapes: (on several engines)
a) In a testrun of 10 pages directly on page 1 but not anymore on page 2 , 3 and further
b) In a testrun of 10 pages not on the first 2-3 pages but from page 4 and further on all pages.

Any information on this issue will help, thanks in advance
If interested I will upload another sample if you want...

Regards, Ab_NL

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