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krm
11-10-2012, 04:07 AM
Customer says they get fantom paper empty message (tray is loaded) and they get intermittent jams from tray 1. I replaced tray 1 feed rollers and cleaned one way bearings. About 300K and I'm thinking the clutch in back is failing. What puzzles me is the paper empty signal they get. I did clean the empty sensor and actuator is ok. Any thoughts would be welcome. I recently replaced fuser and drum, but don't think that could be related.

blackcat4866
11-10-2012, 04:28 AM
I've seen something similar on the 423's. Maybe somebody can confirm if the paper pickup mechanism is the same?

There is a white plastic lever at the back of the feed unit. When that lever is pressed by the back of the tray the pickup tire lowers, and the tray starts to lift. If the metal bracket that holds the pickup roller becomes bent, the paper level can drop too low to feed.
=^..^=

JR2ALTA
11-10-2012, 04:50 AM
You should replace the one-ways first.

Unless the one-way is completely shot, it's hard to tell by hand if they're bad or not.

And, of course, best cover all bases when the god forsaken feed rollers take 30 minutes to replace.

JustManuals
11-10-2012, 05:08 AM
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ni311
11-11-2012, 08:40 PM
The white plastic lever is the same from Bizhub 222 - 420 to 423. The lever was redesigned (a new code is available) and there is a kit to reinforce the back of the tray that gets broken when users are playing soccer with paper trays...

krm
11-12-2012, 09:25 PM
Returned today with a known good tray #1 feed assembly. The whole unit. Put it in and ran 200 + copies without jam or error. Customer called later and said jamming at side and false paper empty indicator from tray 1. The jam counter showed 7 jams from my previous visit at the separation area, not from the tray. Is it possible the registration sensor or unit is the problem? I did clean the sensor and tested the actuator - all looked good. I have not replaced the rear pick up clutch yet. Any thoughts would be welcomed.
Thanks!

Darren King
11-12-2012, 10:02 PM
Replace the registration clutch. I have seen them cause false "paper empty" errors.
Darren

krm
11-13-2012, 01:56 AM
I was getting some jams a few weeks ago from tray two, cleaning the one-way bearings for tray two seemed to work. This might explain that too. The jams are not reaching the fuser, so this would definitely seem likely. I just assumed that clutch would cause jams, not the paper empty problem. I have a Bh350 reg. clutch I will try tomorrow. I think they are the same? What about a bad tray? I'm going to check it for cracks tomorrow. Possible pick up clutch? I know these are the modified ones (no grease), so I generally refrain from replacing these unless it's obvious.
Thanks for the help.

mo0651
11-13-2012, 03:15 PM
Is the customer pulling paper out of the machine???? nothing coming out of the tray? Rear pick up clutch! Just change it. Theses clutches go bad all the time. What are you waiting for?

Darren King
11-13-2012, 10:01 PM
Is the customer pulling paper out of the machine???? nothing coming out of the tray? Rear pick up clutch! Just change it. Theses clutches go bad all the time. What are you waiting for?

A bad feed clutch will not cause a paper empty situation. Just a jam.
A bad registration clutch, however, can cause a "paper empty" message.
Darren

krm
11-13-2012, 10:06 PM
A bad feed clutch will not cause a paper empty situation. Just a jam.
A bad registration clutch, however, can cause a "paper empty" message.
Darren

I replaced the reg. clutch this morning and I noticed some toner/developer around it - not visible from top viewing. I called customer about an hour ago and so far, so good!

blackcat4866
11-14-2012, 12:11 AM
Excellent. It doesn't take much developer to mess up an electromagnetic clutch. =^..^=

krm
11-15-2012, 06:29 AM
A bad feed clutch will not cause a paper empty situation. Just a jam.A bad registration clutch, however, can cause a "paper empty" message.DarrenDarren - It looks like you were dead on! I replaced registration clutch and have not heard from them in two days. They are a busy law firm and produce loads of copy. There was toner or developer inside the clutch when I removed it. It must have been caused when the dev. tank seal broke and caused some leaking earlier. I'm surprised I have not run into this earlier with all the bad tanks on these series of machines. Thanks for your help!!!!

Hansoon
11-15-2012, 09:50 AM
I'm surprised I have not run into this earlier with all the bad tanks on these series of machines.

Why not modifying them with the improved drum spacer collar?

Hans

Darren King
11-15-2012, 02:30 PM
Glad you got it fixed. And glad to help
Darren

krm
11-18-2012, 06:23 AM
A bad feed clutch will not cause a paper empty situation. Just a jam.A bad registration clutch, however, can cause a "paper empty" message.DarrenThanks Darren! It was bad reg clutch.

Mr. Joshua
11-20-2012, 08:56 PM
Hansoon
Re: BH 222 tray #1 jams-paper empty
I'm surprised I have not run into this earlier with all the bad tanks on these series of machines.


Why not modifying them with the improved drum spacer collar?

Hans


Hansoon, are you talking about the bearings that you sell? The reason I ask is that I heard there was a new "roll" out from KM and that it is white and a little wider. Anyone know anything about this?

Hansoon
11-20-2012, 09:47 PM
Look at my avatar: Is it White and Wide enough? :)

Hans

ni311
11-20-2012, 10:09 PM
KM improved the collars, indeed. Unfortunately, I don't have the part # right now, I'll get it tomorrow and let you know. I'm not sure if they are better or worst / cheaper or expensive compared with our colleague is selling.

Hansoon
11-20-2012, 10:41 PM
Ours are made out of Delrin and produced piece by piece on CNC workcenters. NOT injection moulded PVC. Because of the material Delrin they do not shrink or crack and are very form stable. The miniature bearings are specially designed to withstand corrosive and dusty environments. Ozon and developer/toner dust will not penetrate.

Hans

ni311
11-22-2012, 09:25 PM
Don't wanna ruin your business, I just want to let people know that there are improved collars from KM also. How much cost your collars?

Mr. Joshua
11-27-2012, 01:14 AM
If you would be willing to state a price, I would be willing to try and see if my company would be willing to buy them.

Obviously yours is a superior product, I'm not questioning that.

Hansoon
11-27-2012, 04:48 AM
See your PM's

Hans

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