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copydude
02-04-2008, 11:06 PM
I own a small copy facility and have been very impressed with my minolta machines and now Konica Minolta, I own several machines at this time but am addressing an issue with my color machine, I own a Konica 8031 and while it is good it really isn't built for my enviroment I run mostly Card stock and longer run 11x17 and while I only average about 5,000 images a month I seem to wear out the poor little machine, I am looking at replacing it and my budget is very limited, I am looking at a colorforce 8050 but the konica sales rep insistis it is a peice of junk... is he correct or am I being scammed? he is trying to put me in the 351 vs me getting the 8050, your valued and knowledgeable opinions will be greatly appreciated

shannon09
02-05-2008, 02:54 AM
i am very experienced with the 8050, i own one in a print shop i run, and i work on them every day, they are tanks!! they run very well, great quality, supplies are relativly inexpesive, and the common problems are easy fixes, you can pick one up on ebay with a fiery for less than a grand, (we sell them for $12-15k:) i cant think of a better machine for your requiremets, occasional dv pull, drums usually make 100k, filters are very important to replace, fuser upper roller may split or peal early when runnng heavy stock continuously, but not often. i highly recommend.

shannon09
02-05-2008, 02:58 AM
[kojnica sales rep insistis it is a peice of junk... is he correct or am I being scammed? he is tryeing to pout me in the 351 vs me gettign the 8050 your valued and knowledgeable opinions will be greatly apprciated[/quote]

he has a c351 one stock he really needs to get rid of, es full of s?#@$
the c351 isnt even in the same league with a 8050, print for pay is the 8050 home, moms grocery and taxs is c351 country:)
where are u located, i can get you a cleaned up and checked out 8050 for 4-5k

copydude
02-05-2008, 04:49 AM
about an hour outside of San Antonio, I will need a booklet finisher. and prefer a good rip which is the best for this machine?
thanks

random
02-05-2008, 06:41 AM
We have found that the 8050/c500 are only as good as the techs that work on them. As for 351 if you do lots of heavy card I would probably avoid it and go for the 8050.

If you are going to maintain itself I would avoid the 8050 as they are fairly expensive to maintain and a tricky beast to tame.

copydude
02-05-2008, 02:42 PM
which copier would you suggest? I would like to keep it a Konica Minolta so that I can stay with the same service KMBS San Antonio, I was wondering about the c500 or the 550 I was also looking at Toshiba new stuff the estudio's... but they look like nothign more than office equipment, and I have had enough of that

mitchl
02-05-2008, 03:36 PM
CF-900!:eek::eek::eek::eek:

copydude
02-05-2008, 04:52 PM
okay I just got a call from my Salesman form KMBS and he is offering a bizhub c451 with post inserter, the heavier booklet maker with hole punch, 4 drawers, but only the empron rip or a tad over $10,000 ... is that a machine worthy of my enviroment?

mitchl
02-05-2008, 05:34 PM
okay I just got a call from my Salesman form KMBS and he is offering a bizhub c451 with post inserter, the heavier booklet maker with hole punch, 4 drawers, but only the empron rip or a tad over $10,000 ... is that a machine worthy of my enviroment?

If its a new machine that's a down and dirty price with the booklet finisher, have them bring one in for a demo and run your heavy stock, try duplexing multiples and dont forget to have the salesman show you the different settings for running heavy paper. If you dont need color matching and other advanced color management tools skip the IC-409, the standard controller most likely will do everything you need. Your volume is quite low so that's not even close to being a consideration at this point as the 451 will handle 10 times what your doing now!

fernan
02-05-2008, 05:55 PM
Go For C550

copydude
02-05-2008, 06:10 PM
Bizhub C550 Copier/Printer/Scanner
DF-611 Reversing Auto Doc Feeder
FS-608 Saddle Finisher
PI-503 Post Inserter
PK-512 2/3 Hole Punch kit
FK-502 Super 3G Fax Board
14305.00
new

what do you think

mitchl
02-05-2008, 07:30 PM
Bizhub C550 Copier/Printer/Scanner
DF-611 Reversing Auto Doc Feeder
FS-608 Saddle Finisher
PI-503 Post Inserter
PK-512 2/3 Hole Punch kit
FK-502 Super 3G Fax Board
14305.00
new

what do you think

From a dealer cost asspect I like the sound of the 451 deal better, if it includes what you have listed here, keep in mind that they are the same machine except for 10 CPM. Personally, I would take the 451 and use the savings for liquor and hookers, but then again thats me!;)

copydude
02-05-2008, 07:48 PM
the other price was a smidge aver I believe it was 10167. but it didn't include the post inserters ( I was wrong) and the fax board.

mitchl
02-05-2008, 08:12 PM
the other price was a smidge aver I believe it was 10167. but it didn't include the post inserters ( I was wrong) and the fax board.
I'm sure at some point in your life you have heard the term "A buyers market" you are in the ultimate buyers market right now. Name your price and hold your ground, now if you really want to get things rocking call in another KM dealer or look for an NEC dealer, they handle the same machines (in this case, identical) and get them into a price war which is the dealers ultimate nightmare. Don't take a demo model or any other BS demand a new machine with the options you need........... Trust me they will accommodate you, tell them you want all the extras at the 10k price or your calling the Kyocera , Toshiba, Canon and the Ricoh dealer and really turning it into a blood bath. I own my company and have been around for 25+ years so these tactics are used on my sales geeks daily, hourly, hell every minute of every day!........ Guaranteed results and you didnt hear it from me.:D

copydude
02-05-2008, 08:16 PM
lol... thnaks, I know he cut it to the bone and I got better than national pricing .. and ps I had smaples bad by toshiba, couldn't compare even to my 3102. I decided to purchase, I think I got a good deal. thanks for all your input and help, you all helped me make the decision.
Karl

mitchl
02-05-2008, 08:47 PM
lol... thnaks, I know he cut it to the bone and I got better than national pricing .. and ps I had smaples bad by toshiba, couldn't compare even to my 3102. I decided to purchase, I think I got a good deal. thanks for all your input and help, you all helped me make the decision.
Karl
I'm sure the Toshiba box is probably one of the worst ever, but who cares use it as leverage, find some stupid feature it has that the konica Minolta doesn't and swear its the end all feature. To the bone my ass, he's got more room in this deal than you could ever imagine, I'm a NEC dealer and would have over 2k room at this point even with the inserter and FK-502 kit(fax) don't take no for an answer!

random
02-05-2008, 08:59 PM
What sort of work are you doing? Some of our customers only do business cards and I would NEVER recommend them a machine that feeds vertically. If your just doing mainly light stocks than a 451 or something similar would be a good choice but I would suggest a fiery in a printers. Keep in mind that the 451 won't print on as big a sheet a paper as a c500.

copydude
02-05-2008, 09:02 PM
okay will do!
thanks

copydude
02-05-2008, 09:04 PM
I am like a small Kinko's I do low volume stuff, lookin got move it up, but my budjet can't afford a c500 at this time, I know I should get one and I am sure I will regret it later, but the 550 should do me well in my market share at this time.

mitchl
02-05-2008, 09:15 PM
Keep in mind that the 451 won't print on as big a sheet a paper as a c500.

Konica lover!:p

kingpd@businessprints.net
02-07-2008, 06:10 AM
If you're doing heavy posters you might want to try the Xante Illumina. It's basically a rebranded okidata printer that has been modified to handle up to 24 pt. posterboard/cardstock.

I really only recommend it for very thick stock printing as it is a bit pricey on a cost per print basis.

The other con would be they don't have a big service area but most of the parts and consumables are easy to replace.

Just a thought...here's the link

Xante: Products: Ilumina (http://www.xante.com/products/ilumina/)

If it interests you I know a dealer, but they most likely wouldn't service your area.

copydude
03-10-2008, 04:09 PM
thanks, for your comments and suggestions, I purchased the C500 with all the extras listed earlier for 14305. and .007 per click color and .01 per for black and white.
now I just wished it worked, seems I have a bad thermal unit and I am waiting (today?) to see if it comes in .
Karl

mikeena
03-10-2008, 05:09 PM
wow that sucks. is it a new or used machine

copydude
03-10-2008, 06:33 PM
brand new, out of the wrapper, we tested my power supply and no problem, also tested it with the machine plugged in and still had 120
so the problem, hopefully resides with the heating element.
we'll see

mikeena
03-10-2008, 08:57 PM
had a code right out of the wrapper. thats some crappy look however i personally never have seen any issues with a konica minolta machine right oput of the box. ;o). lmao it happens. im just suprise you have to wait for the part. im curious as to know what part it is

copydude
03-20-2008, 11:35 PM
here's the latest update, the technical manager came out and reseated all the connections off the mother board and that fixed the problem, the machine prints great now. It is perfect for a large office enviroment, but alas not for a print for pay enviroment. I need a product that will be more flexable and better color match when I scan a picture, or a document that a custoimer provides.
The town I live in also has a large artist population and they demand better color matching, The standard empron processor, dosen't have the speed nor the mangement capabilities for my enviroment, so I have a choice of spending another five grand on this for the firey and spectrometer and still have a good Office machine but a bad print for pay machine or cough up a total of $13000 and have a true produciton machine with the firey, spectiometer, LCT and the booklet finisher in the Bizhub pro 5500.
I went to my dealer last night and ran several different projects on it and was very impressed by it's capacites and I am happy to be having the fiery (which I am accustomed too) I like that I can dial in the paper type and match it in the machine and print quey.
and the gloss output is fantastic.
if ther is any serious issues with this amchine I would appreciate a heads up
Karl

Livebychance
03-22-2008, 09:28 PM
We have a boat load of 8050, 500, 5500, and 6500’s out in the field. I mention these four models because they are basically the same machine improvements on each generation.

With that being said the 5500 is a great machine.

Here comes the tricky part, we do not use the same names for machines and accessories as seen on this forum.
I say this because I wanted to mention the Rip’s that we would offer: Maybe a true Konica tech could elaborate on the Konica designation.
1) Internal (hangs on back of machine)vr 1.02
2) External (case made out of aluminum)vr 2.1

External Rip has no known issues with exception of some Impose idiosyncrasies.

Internal Rip however:
1) Cuts off image with files >300meg random problem affects all
2) Drops off network (only a couple do this, 500 was a much bigger problem even with firmware update)
3) Paper libraries do not work, affects all

copydude
03-22-2008, 10:14 PM
We have a boat load of 8050, 500, 5500, and 6500’s out in the field. I mention these four models because they are basically the same machine improvements on each generation.

With that being said the 5500 is a great machine.

Here comes the tricky part, we do not use the same names for machines and accessories as seen on this forum.
I say this because I wanted to mention the Rip’s that we would offer: Maybe a true Konica tech could elaborate on the Konica designation.
1) Internal (hangs on back of machine)vr 1.02
2) External (case made out of aluminum)vr 2.1

External Rip has no known issues with exception of some Impose idiosyncrasies.

Internal Rip however:
1) Cuts off image with files >300meg random problem affects all
2) Drops off network (only a couple do this, 500 was a much bigger problem even with firmware update)
3) Paper libraries do not work, affects all
It is the internal, could you elaberate more on the issues, you stated
thanks

random
03-23-2008, 06:18 AM
IC-408 is the "internal" and really built for office environment I think. The external is the IC-303. The best choice (if is available) is the creo. It is significantly easier to use than a Fiery, also it comes with a screen and spectro without needing any dongles.

If you have problems with the internal RIP disconnecting RDP in and check the power save settings of Embedded XP.

Livebychance
03-23-2008, 10:39 AM
Thanks random, did not think to check power save in XP.

IC-408
Image cut off in many different applications with files >300meg
Does not happen all the time, does not cut off image in same spot.

random ansewered #2

Paper libraries work in the IC-303 but not in the IC-408.

Received an email last night that we will have new system software for the IC303
this week. All the above might be a mute point.

copydude
03-24-2008, 03:12 AM
FYI I am paying $27305 for the intire system,

the 5500 system
docu feeder
LCT
fs-607 - booklet finisher
pk-512 -hole punch
cover inserter
ic-408 fiery
es-1000 spectrometer

is it a good deal or am I getting taken?

dmor
04-28-2008, 09:24 PM
http://www.copierfaxbt.com/nys.pdf I found this link which lists the retail/net prices on all the Konica equipment. Not sure of accuracy, but it's a start.

mikeena
04-28-2008, 09:48 PM
thats about a average deal for that machine. keep in mind this is a business and people got to make money. the suggested retail price on one of these i think is about 40k. now given the fact that most companies have to pay less then half of this then sell them but once again its a company and they got to make there money. now im not saying dont do cheaper. tell them you will pay 25000 i bet they take it. lol any deal can happen as long as you are reasonable. dont tell them 20k because then you are just being a dick.. company has to make its money back plus some and the salesman has to make his. thats where inflation happens.lol

copydude
04-29-2008, 02:33 AM
Thanks man, that sight did help, It was pricing for New York State and accordign to their pricing I paid 5 grand less than they did, so I feel great about it!!
Wow a sales person told the truth!
p.s.
I love the Bizhub Pro 5500 the quality is superb and the it has taken everything I have thrown at it and begs for more, can't wait to continue testing it boundries!
Karl

DadO
04-30-2008, 08:25 AM
Is it a rich country or not? U people smack that biz c 451 5500 6500 like a flies and we(thinking for costumers) piss the blood until we sell c203..... Isn't this interesting? :confused:

onabike
04-30-2008, 10:56 AM
HUH!!!!!!

JSC
04-30-2008, 02:02 PM
Yep he 's lost me to!

copydude
04-30-2008, 02:12 PM
Is it a rich country or not? U people smack that biz c 451 5500 6500 like a flies and we(thinking for costumers) piss the blood until we sell c203..... Isn't this interesting? :confused:
Dude, I think you want to say something, just not sure what... Too much caffine lately??
Lol, care to repost and clarify?
thanks Karl

Scott_Lewis
05-02-2008, 01:47 AM
Yup, we have placed a truck load of C6500, C550, C451, C450, C35x's, and the C25x's. No one has actually sold a C203 from our company that I'm aware of.

alltech
05-02-2008, 04:30 AM
go the new oki 300gsm booklet finisher great machine

ck1
05-02-2008, 10:53 AM
Go For C550
this model print ok or not ( thick Paper ) ? i use bhc 450 too bad for 2nd side ( thick paper )

copydude
05-02-2008, 03:02 PM
The 550 does a great job printing and I had no problems running 12pt cs2 2 sided, although that is really pushing the limits.
but it won't have any issues running business card stock (I use Astropaque 80 lb cover by wassau) two sided.
Karl

ni311
05-04-2008, 07:15 AM
I hope you're aware that this new generation of machine supports color profiles. It's a big step forward for KM. You no longer need Fiery for color profiles, just get the latest driver from the Internet or ask the technician.

DadO
05-05-2008, 06:38 AM
They where in "step" even before adding color profiles :) I can compare canon's clc and bizhub C series and i would definitely go for bizhub. Xerox is good...but not that good anyway


I just compared some regions of the world ( :) ) for selling class of color copiers over 40 ppm and i stated u sell as much of bizhub 451-550 as we do sell max 253 even to people whit higher needs....

Example : we sold 70% of bizhub 203 to people who will run card stocks 300 gm/2 and they aren't even interested in higher class :D and we did "convinced" them otherwise but still...

Didn't wanted to make confusion or anything :)

p.s.
i compared USA regions
p.s.s.
to copydude: "Too much caffine lately??"
What, u have same problem? :D

copydude
06-20-2009, 06:27 PM
Just decided to do an update, on teh C5500 I purchased a bit over a year ago... 500,000 images and still going strong, just getting ready to have the PM done.. I have enjoyed this machine intensly, It continues giving me great proformance and color.. I have ran a ton of fasson's Pearl coated label stock through the machine, and the labels are absolutly beautiful.

my only qualm is that I have been unable to find 64bit vista print drivers for it.. I have had to have another computer next to mine acting as nothign more than a server for my printer, I finally made a virtual drive on my 64 bit and installed 32bit xp, so that at least I am down to just the one computer, but I still have to network to the virtual drive, then open the file, and print it.. so it takes alot of time to print a simple color file.. other than that I love the machine and would recommend it to anyone.

Karl

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