c224e wont start up

[jrf]

Hi all
Anyone experience a c224e which appears to freeze after start up.
Ive tried to reload firmware but it doesn't even attempt to boot from usb.
Any ideas please

[aleksander]

Hi all
Anyone experience a c224e which appears to freeze after start up.
Ive tried to reload firmware but it doesn't even attempt to boot from usb.
Any ideas please

Try to replace the HDD.

[Mitch Barron]

Will it boot into service mode from trouble reset?

[EarthKmTech]

turn the machine on with the hdd disconected.

if its starts and throws a hdd error, go ahead and replace the hard drive, format it and see if it operates normally.

if it makes no difference and still wont start with the hdd disconnected, it wasnt the hard drive - no love lost.

Another possibility is failed RAM.

[jrf]

I have removed HD but it still will not start. Screen remains on initial display at power on. The KonicaMinolta logo doesn't appear. It wont boot from usb with firmware file either. I will change memory module and MFP and let you know.
Thanks for replies but let me know if you have anymore ideas.

[EarthKmTech]

how long are you waiting with a usb key in the service port for writing firmware ?

it takes considerably longer for an e series to start up normally let alone to write firmware, it also does not display the dot on the screen as per the non e series just to confuse things even more.

wait atleast 10 minutes after turning on the machine with the key in the service port to assume something is wrong, 5 minutes of no activity is pretty normal.

[jrf]

Yes they can take a long time but it was sitting with Usb for 30 miniutes with no indication of any activity.
However if the front door or side door is opened the fans that are running cut out.

[EarthKmTech]

is the panel completely dead, ie nothing on the screen at all?

is this a new machine out of the box or has it been working fine until recently ?

If you try the memory and it still doesnt work i would agree that its time to start trying more drastic measures. Trying board swaps in these new machines is a total nightmare for the uninitiated and you should not proceed unless you have had the training required.

[tsewk]

It may be the MFP board failure

[Hansoon]

*Off Topic*



Trying board swaps in these new machines is a total nightmare for the uninitiated

Why?

Hans

[Mat Wilson]

*Off Topic*



Why?

Hans

Because all the boards back up to each other and you need to follow a set procedure to replace them.

[EarthKmTech]

*Off Topic*



Why?

Hans

If you have to ask why, you shouldn't be doing it.

demand the training.

[Hansoon]

If you have to ask why, you shouldn't be doing it.

demand the training.

I'm an Indy doing 99% Lease Returns. That means that we are always one generation behind. Though I feel it cannot not do harm to be informed already in advance about the new machines coming to us one day in the future.

That's why I asked....., Sir.

Hans

[wseyller]

If you have to ask why, you shouldn't be doing it.

demand the training.

I've been thru the certification on this series and I don't even know. Of course not every class is the same as the next. But I don't think something like this was covered in mine. I have never had such an issue on this series so I don't have experience either. Certification or not some things are just learned from experience or thru other resources like this forum.


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[JR2ALTA]

If you have to ask why, you shouldn't be doing it.

demand the training.


Hans don't deserve that, we're all seniors talking here

[jrf]

Just to update you all. Its not the memory card or ops panel. It does give a black dot when I start it in service mode but nothing else happens and it does give a black dot when started with usb for firmware .
My next step is to replace the Mfp board and there is a very specific process for replacing this.

[Shadow]

check the release date of the machine, there was a swap of controller chips due to the tsunami in japan.
also check to see if you have the new led optics lamp installed, this will demand the latest firmware.
if you attempt to install a different firmware the machine will just sit there in the dark and look stupid.

[EarthKmTech]

Hans don't deserve that, we're all seniors talking here

If I came across as rude, I apologize, but the simple fact i'm getting at is that you should not at all be contemplating board swaps on any 4 series machines If you are not aware of the correct procedure. If someone was unaware and say, borrowed boards from a functional machine, if not done correctly you will end up with not just one machine not working but now 2. It's not like the old days anymore, the rules have changed.

If this was not covered in training provided then the trainer should not be in the business of training, even the online training provided for the 4 series machines goes over this procedure.

It's also covered in the service manual, which should be considered mandatory to have.

[SmellsHot]

Do you honestly think any instructor is going to peform a board swap in class...... I'd love to see them do this. It would be a great learning tool to everyone. We all know it wouldn't go well for most, just like when your in the field. You figure out what works best, even if the manual says different. The best part about these new "e" series board swaps, is the fact that you do actually have to OPEN up a service manual and follow instructions. I know far too many people who just wing everything and cause more headaches for themselves then need be.......
Use the service manual :cool:

[wseyller]

In all my km classes I don't recall any time that they go over the specifics of changing boards. I've had to remove them in class and put that same board back in but never went over the details of a board swap in the field. Otherwise you may have someone ask a question and then the subject gets brought up in group discussion. There only so much you can cover in a 5 day ILT class anyway. You learn about things you need to know most and its not like changing boards is common. If a tech at that point doesn't know to look a the service manual before a board change is done then they need to be fired.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Kidaver]

When I took this class at KM in Dallas I do remember them discussing the board swapping procedure. We didn't actually do it but it was discussed and iterated to definitely follow the steps in the manual. It was explained that the SSD writes to the board and vice versa so you have to make sure each part gets the data written to it.

[emujo]

KM just released a new special firmware for the entire 4e line that addresses the freeze ups. It forces a re-boot when the MFP detects a low memory condition. Not really a fix IMO, but it's a start. GD2-63 Emujo

[jrf]

Replaced MFP board and machine back up and running.
Thanks for replies to all. Ive also loaded new firmware GD2-63 , thanks Emujo

[dirtyfingers]

its good news to hear your C224e is back up and going

We do cover board replacement here in training C284e/C454e
Yes ....even replacing MFP & PRCB on them

MFP,SSD and PCRB all talk to each other
You should only replace ONE PWB at a time (or you will corrupt the total counters)

EG
If you replace the PRCB with a new board
The data from the SSD & MFP board will be pushed to the new board.


The two critical parts are the SSD + MFP board
The SSD board is the new NVram and cant be ordered as a part

WARNING - Don't use a 2nd hand MFP board (without erasing it first )
The total counter is taken from the HIGHEST meter reading
if you grab a 2nd hand MFP board and put it into a C224e ...it will take the highest count!!!

There is a procedure to erase a MFP board
Eg - Your C284e doesn't start up and you want to see if its an MFP board
you fit it but that wasn't the fault ...now what
You can erase the MFP board

And NO I don't think there is a way to make your showroom machine back to zero counter!

The service manual has been revised and it explains the procedure and error messages
Its not that hard ...you just need to slow down ...read a little and it all works

[emujo]

its good news to hear your C224e is back up and going

We do cover board replacement here in training C284e/C454e
Yes ....even replacing MFP & PRCB on them

MFP,SSD and PCRB all talk to each other
You should only replace ONE PWB at a time (or you will corrupt the total counters)

EG
If you replace the PRCB with a new board
The data from the SSD & MFP board will be pushed to the new board.


The two critical parts are the SSD + MFP board
The SSD board is the new NVram and cant be ordered as a part

WARNING - Don't use a 2nd hand MFP board (without erasing it first )
The total counter is taken from the HIGHEST meter reading
if you grab a 2nd hand MFP board and put it into a C224e ...it will take the highest count!!!

There is a procedure to erase a MFP board
Eg - Your C284e doesn't start up and you want to see if its an MFP board
you fit it but that wasn't the fault ...now what
You can erase the MFP board

And NO I don't think there is a way to make your showroom machine back to zero counter!

The service manual has been revised and it explains the procedure and error messages
Its not that hard ...you just need to slow down ...read a little and it all works

Good 1st post thanks for the info. Emujo

[Hansoon]

So the design of the previous models was so utterly bad and barely functioning that everything had to be re-engineered and redesigned to come now to these exclusive high levels of sophisticated technology.....

As welcome as anal cancer. What an unnecessary obnoxious SHIT....... :mad:

Hans

[dirtyfingers]

Hi Hans
I didn't mean to offend

I agree the C280 series are a really good model and there wasn't anything wrong with the design.

The "three board backup " concept is used by other manufactures
This may have been adopted by KM due to the history of problems with NVrams

They have completely changed the operating system on the C284/C454 series
The C280s are running VXworks ...but the C284e/C454e is using a Linux based OS
That's why we are getting so many software bugs


The main engine is based on the C360 (which is a great engine).
So its not a complete re-design


I understand your frustration as they are always changing things on us

My post was to just explain the board replacement process and why its important to follow the procedure.

Thanks

[lanierboy]

Hi All,

Just to give you some other information.

we have had a few of these machines have this problem. Usually it is either the HDD or MFPB but on 2 occasions the machine was only fixed by fitting a new SSD board.

It is also worth reseating the SSD.

cheers

[Hansoon]

Hi Hans
I didn't mean to offend

I agree the C280 series are a really good model and there wasn't anything wrong with the design.

The "three board backup " concept is used by other manufactures
This may have been adopted by KM due to the history of problems with NVrams

They have completely changed the operating system on the C284/C454 series
The C280s are running VXworks ...but the C284e/C454e is using a Linux based OS
That's why we are getting so many software bugs


The main engine is based on the C360 (which is a great engine).
So its not a complete re-design


I understand your frustration as they are always changing things on us

My post was to just explain the board replacement process and why its important to follow the procedure.

Thanks

Don't take it personally D'fingers. I felt just frustrated a "little" :o

I'm very happy with your detailed instructions. That's what one needs when not being able to go to school.....

Thanks for your efforts to support Indy's left in the dark....

Hans

[dirtyfingers]

I agree with Lanierboy

Main cause for wont start are HDD failure
Japan has confirmed Hitachi drives were faulty from the factory.
(This is for Last shipments of C280 series & C284 series ...not "e" models)


You will see they are all now western digital (and working well)
the error code for HDD failure is FA14 on the C284 ...not CE002 as on older models.

We have had a few MFP board failures ...but NO SSD boards fail (yet)

[delboy10]

its good news to hear your C224e is back up and going

We do cover board replacement here in training C284e/C454e
Yes ....even replacing MFP & PRCB on them

MFP,SSD and PCRB all talk to each other
You should only replace ONE PWB at a time (or you will corrupt the total counters)

EG
If you replace the PRCB with a new board
The data from the SSD & MFP board will be pushed to the new board.


The two critical parts are the SSD + MFP board
The SSD board is the new NVram and cant be ordered as a part

WARNING - Don't use a 2nd hand MFP board (without erasing it first )
The total counter is taken from the HIGHEST meter reading
if you grab a 2nd hand MFP board and put it into a C224e ...it will take the highest count!!!

There is a procedure to erase a MFP board
Eg - Your C284e doesn't start up and you want to see if its an MFP board
you fit it but that wasn't the fault ...now what
You can erase the MFP board

And NO I don't think there is a way to make your showroom machine back to zero counter!

The service manual has been revised and it explains the procedure and error messages
Its not that hard ...you just need to slow down ...read a little and it all works

Hello dirtyfingers,

Thanks for the info.

We just had one 224e with the display freeze at the "shark fin". So We order the MFP board and go through the steps to how to replace the MFP board. It did not solve our problem. We are an authorize KM dealer but I have not train on this model yet.
I talked to tech support and they think my problem is still with the MFB board.
Obviously you have more than one machine with the same problem so you have seen more than I do. What happen is after I replace the MFP board you suppose to get trouble code C-D390 will appear with Japanese text. The machine will reboot automatically. This will occur two times before you have the recovery option, but I did not have that. The machine will boot up and looking for the firmware right away. It said Firmware update error invalid external usb drive. However, there is no usb drive in the firmware update, so I did push the firmware to the new MFB board and get the N.G on the MFP controller. Printer, scanner, and ADF download show completed.

My question is have you encounter with something like that and How do I erase the MFP board? Tech support tell me to order another MFP Board and I can not afford to have two MFB board with out having the problem fix.

Thank you very much.
delboy

[SmellsHot]

are you using the correct firmware c224e and not c224? Also all thumb drives do not work. It's hit or miss. And make sure your have the correct folder structure on the thumb drive....

[wseyller]

Hello dirtyfingers,

Thanks for the info.

We just had one 224e with the display freeze at the "shark fin". So We order the MFP board and go through the steps to how to replace the MFP board. It did not solve our problem. We are an authorize KM dealer but I have not train on this model yet.
I talked to tech support and they think my problem is still with the MFB board.
Obviously you have more than one machine with the same problem so you have seen more than I do. What happen is after I replace the MFP board you suppose to get trouble code C-D390 will appear with Japanese text. The machine will reboot automatically. This will occur two times before you have the recovery option, but I did not have that. The machine will boot up and looking for the firmware right away. It said Firmware update error invalid external usb drive. However, there is no usb drive in the firmware update, so I did push the firmware to the new MFB board and get the N.G on the MFP controller. Printer, scanner, and ADF download show completed.

My question is have you encounter with something like that and How do I erase the MFP board? Tech support tell me to order another MFP Board and I can not afford to have two MFB board with out having the problem fix.

Thank you very much.
delboy



Last week I replaced an mfp board while on the phone with support. We went through correct steps and got the same invalid external drive error. Support tells me I got a defective board. I ordered another board and it worked as it should. So get another mfp board.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[dirtyfingers]

Hi Delboy
I have seen the invalid external USB drive error
But I'm not quite sure about cause of the message.
You need to have the HDD installed to do firmware on the C284e
(C284 don't need HDD installed to do firmware )
otherwise you will get NG when trying to load the MFP board firmware.

Selecting only MFP is another way to get past the NG message.

I would suggest you format your USB drive and copy firmware back on again.
Make sure machine/type are selected correctly for firmware.
Confirm HDD is installed , select MFP only

You can erase an MFP board by using the "TAR" file
This is a special file which erases the MFP board on startup
This is used when you have put a MFP board in a machine for testing and it didn't fix your fault
--- Don't use this file on a MFP trying to fix a fault ---

Sorry for late reply

[delboy10]

Hi Delboy
I have seen the invalid external USB drive error
But I'm not quite sure about cause of the message.
You need to have the HDD installed to do firmware on the C284e
(C284 don't need HDD installed to do firmware )
otherwise you will get NG when trying to load the MFP board firmware.

Selecting only MFP is another way to get past the NG message.

I would suggest you format your USB drive and copy firmware back on again.
Make sure machine/type are selected correctly for firmware.
Confirm HDD is installed , select MFP only

You can erase an MFP board by using the "TAR" file
This is a special file which erases the MFP board on startup
This is used when you have put a MFP board in a machine for testing and it didn't fix your fault
--- Don't use this file on a MFP trying to fix a fault ---

Sorry for late reply



Thank you all for replying.
The machine has the Hard Drive and I did not disconnect it when I did the firmware. The thing I did not get is the Reboot process with Japanese text ect... when you first put in the mfp board and initialize it with machine model and type with the usb stick firmware. You have to remove the firmware usb stick and reboot the machine to complete the reboot process I mention above. The machine will have that external usb error right after reboot.
This also happened with the defective mfp board. With the defective board I try to push the firmware ver63 and I get N/G on the mfp controller.
All other showed completed. I reboot the machine and get the external usb error message right away. Machine is not freeze at the boot screen (shark fin).
I also try to push just the mfp controller w/o successful.

I will have to try another mfp board and let you guys know.

Thank you all!


@dirtyfingers you mention the "tar" file. Where is this tar file? Can you find it at the support site (SSD)? Thanks.

[dirtyfingers]

Hi Del
I got the file from my C284/C454 training course
Its just a small file
KM support should be able to give it to you.

Cheers

[zaini]

Thank you all for replying.
The machine has the Hard Drive and I did not disconnect it when I did the firmware. The thing I did not get is the Reboot process with Japanese text ect... when you first put in the mfp board and initialize it with machine model and type with the usb stick firmware. You have to remove the firmware usb stick and reboot the machine to complete the reboot process I mention above. The machine will have that external usb error right after reboot.
This also happened with the defective mfp board. With the defective board I try to push the firmware ver63 and I get N/G on the mfp controller.
All other showed completed. I reboot the machine and get the external usb error message right away. Machine is not freeze at the boot screen (shark fin).
I also try to push just the mfp controller w/o successful.

I will have to try another mfp board and let you guys know.

Thank you all!


@dirtyfingers you mention the "tar" file. Where is this tar file? Can you find it at the support site (SSD)? Thanks.

try format your HDD, if your machine use version 1.1 in machine columm put 3, type columm put 3
and if your machine use version 1.0 in machine columm put 1, type columm put 3.

[jrf]

Best procedure for these machines failing to start is use the KM reset tool, then restart the machine and follow instructions to recover data. Then reload firmware using type and model table. we had two more failing but this procedure works well.
regards to all.

[dirtyfingers]

Hi Jrf
I wouldn't recommend using the MFP board reset tool first

Reason
If you reset the MFP board ...and the PCRB is faulty
Then you will need to replace the PCRB with a new board .....now you have two new boards and an original SSD
This is Bad as you will get a error message which you need a special procedure from Japan.
The machine is not useable until the error is cleared.

testing
fit a new MFP board ...if it doesn't fix the boot up then reset it (it can be used to test in another MFP)
Refit original MFP board
Then move to PCRB (This can be a used one )

SSD board
These cannot be ordered as a spare part so you need to eliminate the other parts (MFP,Ram ,PCRB)
Then contact KM tech support

[blackcat4866]

This is kind of an old thread, but it helped me. My bizhub C284e would freeze with two shark fins. Occasionally I'd get error codes C-F901 or C-5602.

Upon investigation I found all the yellow developer dumped into the laser and ... IC11 on the Front PWB had a little fire. The damage extends to the wire harness where the 50mm of yellow wire and the connecter at CN5 are melted beyond recognition. A 24vdc wire melted across many of the leads at CN5.

I've ordered the Front PWB, MFP PWB, PRCB, yellow developing unit, and snipped about 300mm of wire harness with the appropriate connector from a donor in the graveyard. My hope is that the length of harness, Front PWB and yellow developer will revive this machine.

The hard part will be unstringing some of the harness to make sure only the end is melted.

247452474424743

Did I mention this is a brand new machine, less than 100 prints? More to follow. =^..^=

[copier tech]

Wow what a nightmare. Surely if that's a new m/c KM should replace it, especially as it had a small fire!!!!????

[blackcat4866]

It is a major nightmare. Plus, all the boards that I've ordered from the C284e parts manual are not fitting. That is to say that many of the connectors are different sizes. At first I thought that I was ordering from a wrong model, but there is no distinction in the parts book. Perhaps there have been major changes in the boards, but it's not reflected in the manuals.

It was satisfying splicing in the section of laser unit harness CN5. Too bad none of the boards I ordered fit.

I just want to start a bonfire and put this machine right into the center of it. =^..^=

[bobe]

replace SSD , call Konica support , and do latest firmware update if the copier is rebooting

[JR2ALTA]

These machines are just a disaster

If word of this gets to Japan we're in for another mandatory parts recall

[zaini]

These machines are just a disaster

If word of this gets to Japan we're in for another mandatory parts recall

the SSD board need to upgrade a new firmware. 1st. your must upgrade new ver. 1.03
it is firmware problem, don't change any board.

[allen@askitni.com]

There is a known issue with the SSD board which is corrected by new firmware, but if its hanging already the SSD board would now need replaced.

[Ste Scott]

Two problems have been identified to be the major cause of the increase of failing SSD Boards.

The symptoms are as follows

1.
After turning on the MFP, it continuously starts to reboot.

After turning on
the MFP, it stops in the middle of the boot process and shut down by itself.

After turning on
the MFP, during the boot process, in the stage where two pillars are shown on the

operation panel, the MFP stops and reboots over and over again.

2.
After turning on the MFP, it will not boot up.

After turning on
the MFP, it stops in the middle of the boot process or control panel stays blank.

After turning on
the MFP, it does not boot up and never reaches the operation panel screen.

If these symptoms are shown the SSD Board needs to be replaced. Please take care to clearly identify that you are

dealing with one of the above shown problems before replacing the SSD Board

[blackcat4866]

Thank goodness my machine is getting RA'd. The smell went away a good hour after the machine left the customers office. =^..^=

[stevena86]

Speaking to these new 4e series machines being terrible.

We have a BH 454e at a customer location that was working perfectly fine. I was there for a small settings issue and found that it was running old firmware and the SSD fix had not been applied to the machine. When trying to update the SSD firmware with the tool, it gave a "Download NG. [Error 3320]". Never seen one that had given a specific error, I called Konica to ask what that meant. Got transferred up to a guy who told me to apply the GC8 firmware first, THEN apply the SSD fix.

Went to apply the GC8 firmware, and the firmware gave me a "MFP Controller: Download NG" and after that the copier refused to boot.

Called the specialist back at the Konica hotline and advised him that not only did his suggestion not work, but it now brought a well-working machine down. He goes "Yeah, I figured that would happen. You'll have to replace the SSD on it. I'll update your ticket so you can order it through the portal" and hangs up on me.

Customer wasn't too happy when I had to walk back into his office and explain that it'd be down for a day.

But that's not the end of the story. I order the SSD board on a Thursday, I didn't get the board until the following Wednesday because they were BO'd. Such a pain. I almost wish we could go back to the crappy design and problems the C353 series had. At least those, KM sent you 10 cases of PH's to have on hand for when the damn things WOULD fail on you.

[Hansoon]

Two problems have been identified to be the major cause of the increase of failing SSD Boards.

The symptoms are as follows

So, and what are the "Two Problems" causing those symptoms?

Hans