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hotfuser
11-13-2014, 02:02 PM
Please can i have any feed back regarding failures on cyan dev units as i have over 50 failures where the developer is depleted.
This seems to be the only colour that fails.
All the levels are as they should be.

Thanks in advance for any info received.

mo0651
11-13-2014, 03:13 PM
Check the operation of your toner add motor.

hotfuser
11-13-2014, 03:43 PM
Check the operation of your toner add motor.

everything is working correctly on every machine we go too.

Levels are all ok.

the toner replenish system on these models are not independent they all turn together which is unusual.

One C364e that had the problem went through 4 dev cyan dev units in 4 days ( only producing 1500 copies ove this period )

MFP,HV,Drum,Printer control board transfer belt all had been changed previously.

copier tech
11-13-2014, 09:02 PM
You've had 50 cyan dev units fail!!?? Thats a lot, On how many differant machines is this?
I trust you are using OEM toner?

EarthKmTech
11-13-2014, 10:04 PM
Still to this day have never changed a colour dev unit on any 4 series and we have LOTS.

Only one i have changed is a failed black, and thats the only one. We only use genuine everything and replace parts when asked - we never reset and leave parts.

wseyller
11-13-2014, 10:47 PM
We have many of these in the field and I have never heard of such. Don't think I have changed one either. I only had one issue when someone was able to get a cyan toner installed where the black goes.

mo0651
11-13-2014, 11:03 PM
My reason for suggesting toner supply is we had a black dev. unit fail. (we thought). On this model there is carrier and toner in the toner bottle. It continuously replenishes the dev unit. It fills a toner hopper and then goes into the dev unit from the hopper. There are a couple of motors that run that process. We had one not working and causing the problem. Good luck.

hotfuser
11-14-2014, 08:49 AM
You've had 50 cyan dev units fail!!?? Thats a lot, On how many differant machines is this?
I trust you are using OEM toner?

this is across 20-30 machines and yes we are using OEM toner.

it is just not making sense as all levels are correct and it is only the cyan unit.

Trigger
11-14-2014, 11:45 AM
20 - 30 machines!!!??? You sure you are not using compat toner?? There's no way on GOD's earth you could be that unlucky to have that many failed dev units. If you are running out of dev and the machine is still supplying toner from the bottle id suggest that you have a word with your toner supplier as i really cannot see you having that many machines with the same problem.

i pray for you, Trigger

hotfuser
11-14-2014, 11:54 AM
20 - 30 machines!!!??? You sure you are not using compat toner?? There's no way on GOD's earth you could be that unlucky to have that many failed dev units. If you are running out of dev and the machine is still supplying toner from the bottle id suggest that you have a word with your toner supplier as i really cannot see you having that many machines with the same problem.

i pray for you, Trigger

I get my toner direct from KM this is over a period of 12 months though.

EarthKmTech
11-15-2014, 01:11 AM
Something fishy is going on here.

Is there anything peculiar about the environments the machines are installed in that are in common ?

witech1
11-17-2014, 03:38 PM
you havent said anything which if any error codes you may be getting when they fail, there is a FOC bushing for the 4 series machines for the dev units. May want to look for it on the KMtech website. But I agree with everyone else about the number of failures, if you havent taken this to KM tech support you are missing the boat.

hotfuser
11-17-2014, 05:56 PM
you havent said anything which if any error codes you may be getting when they fail, there is a FOC bushing for the 4 series machines for the dev units. May want to look for it on the KMtech website. But I agree with everyone else about the number of failures, if you havent taken this to KM tech support you are missing the boat.

The FOC mod has been fitted and trust me KM techs have been informed. PCQ occurs before anything else i.e codes or anything.
The dev unit completely drains out of all of the dev/toner and cannot be recovered.

hotfuser
11-17-2014, 05:57 PM
Something fishy is going on here.

Is there anything peculiar about the environments the machines are installed in that are in common ?

All of the copiers are in office enviroments. Nothing out of the ordinary.

hotfuser
11-17-2014, 06:04 PM
Going back to one of the first problem that occured on a C364e this paticular machine was all ok up untill about 60k within a period of 3 weeks it had gone through 4 cyan dev units in two weeks.
In between units PRCB,MFP,HV,transfer belt,PC drum,dev driver board and toner hopper assembley have all been changed.
I have KM attend and they were as baffled as myself.
We formatted HDD and took everything back to factory settings and loaded latest firmware at the time.
So far touch wood it has been ok.

leonardob
12-01-2014, 11:26 AM
HotFuser any news since last week ?

I'm experincing problems on 2 machines (C454e), the developer is lasting only 250K pages (out of expected 590k) on all colors , the environment conditions are not the best . The machines are on a air-conditioned cabin on a construction site , room temp set to around 22 deg C (72 F), but it is a very dusty environment. We have also other models on the same site , but never faced problems concerning Dev Yield (life)

Does someone has any clue ?

Many tks,

hotfuser
12-01-2014, 11:38 AM
HotFuser any news since last week ?

I'm experincing problems on 2 machines (C454e), the developer is lasting only 250K pages (out of expected 590k) on all colors , the environment conditions are not the best . The machines are on a air-conditioned cabin on a construction site , room temp set to around 22 deg C (72 F), but it is a very dusty environment. We have also other models on the same site , but never faced problems concerning Dev Yield (life)

Does someone has any clue ?

Many tks,

No nothing. It is very unusual that no one else had had this issue. I have checked my orders and since release i have ordered 62 cyan units aginst 12 of all the other colours.

witech1
12-01-2014, 08:47 PM
just wanted to see if anything has changed with the status of the dev units you were having trouble with. I now have 3 machines in the same building with the same problem as you have described except it is a black dev unit, all readings are fine but CQ is poor and this would be the 2nd dev unit on 2 out of 3 machines and I have opened tickets with KM.

habik
12-01-2014, 10:36 PM
How does the toner container looks like? The shutter especially!
When the Cyan dev was depleted, was there any toner in the toner hopper?

I have suspicion that you may have some faulty batch of toner cartridges. I went to see customer who could not turn the cartridge inside machine. Initially thought that they misplaced color cartridges. When went there the shutter would not open properly when turned forcefully the first time.


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vagner
12-04-2014, 11:08 AM
check reveals biases in revealing the fine adjust the service mode, lack of grounding contacts in the unit fail the correct polarization of bias, already got equipment that contacts the machine background were bad had to cirrigi them and everything is back to function properly, as this so this happening to a unit specifically.

hotfuser
12-19-2014, 04:06 PM
Still having cyan units fail.
there has got to be a problem out there.
Now KM are out of stock does this not start ringing alarm bells.
it cannot be me that is having this isuue.
wait in anticipation.

many thanks guys

barber782
12-22-2014, 10:23 AM
Hi,

Iv also run into this problem on a c454. Spent weeks fitting parts, especially cyan dev units that drain the developer.

Recently had a KM Rep down for this and we went through the machine, checking the operation of the toner hopper section.
All seemed Ok, levels were fine. He then advised to change the HV board along with a new cyan dev unit. A week has passed and we have not heard from the customer (touch wood). Although I'm not entirely convinced it has solved the issue, I to would like to know if anyone else has experienced this problem, and how they resolved it. Spent so much money on parts for this.


Nick

allan
12-22-2014, 10:31 AM
No problem on my machines. The toner add does not work together it is the same as C360 only change is the reed switches was changed to Photo interuptors because of the developer bieng added to the toner it would get stuck to the magnet inside the sub hopper. Are you reseting the dev tanks? >dealer trick = buy only black Dev tanks and convert to color much cheaper<. The sensors cant see color only density!

hotfuser
12-22-2014, 11:36 AM
Hi,

Iv also run into this problem on a c454. Spent weeks fitting parts, especially cyan dev units that drain the developer.

Recently had a KM Rep down for this and we went through the machine, checking the operation of the toner hopper section.
All seemed Ok, levels were fine. He then advised to change the HV board along with a new cyan dev unit. A week has passed and we have not heard from the customer (touch wood). Although I'm not entirely convinced it has solved the issue, I to would like to know if anyone else has experienced this problem, and how they resolved it. Spent so much money on parts for this.


Nick

Thanks Barber.

i had changed everything too on one specific machine. This was a C364e i also had a KM tech spec visit it had 4 dev units in all in a period of 6 weeks.
The copier was taken back to factory settings and re set up with the latest firmware.
This has beeen ok since but im not convinced.
This seems very unusual as it is only Cyan units i am have fail.

hotfuser
12-22-2014, 11:39 AM
No problem on my machines. The toner add does not work together it is the same as C360 only change is the reed switches was changed to Photo interuptors because of the developer bieng added to the toner it would get stuck to the magnet inside the sub hopper. Are you reseting the dev tanks? >dealer trick = buy only black Dev tanks and convert to color much cheaper<. The sensors cant see color only density!

No i am not resetting these units as they seem to be failing about 60k onwards.
Where the units should last 420k premature failure is becoming a bit of an issue.

allan
12-22-2014, 05:18 PM
I had a C360 that did that on a cyan tank. The tank was empty when i replaced it. Striped out the laser to see where the machine dumped the dev but found nothing. I removed the HV board and cleaned all the conection points. The problem never came back. Check for corosion on the HV contacts mabe bad shipping caused corosion.

JR2ALTA
12-24-2014, 02:46 AM
I am very interested in following this problem, but fortunately my company has had no issues. we must have 100 out there.

hotfuser
12-24-2014, 09:20 AM
I am very interested in following this problem, but fortunately my company has had no issues. we must have 100 out there.

Thanks for the interest in this thread.
I am very confused with this issue.
There is no rhyme or reason why this is happening it just not make sense as it only seems to be the cyan unit failing.
It seems to be frailing at around 60k onwards.
I have now had over 70 fail on a MIF of over 300.

copier tech
12-24-2014, 12:36 PM
70 MFD's with the same fault & at differant locations?

There must be something that links them, a local power issue, your toner supplier?

yianni
12-26-2014, 01:14 AM
Same issue here (http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/konica-minolta/71911-bizhub-c451-consuming-developer-cyan-iu.html).

padedwalls
12-29-2014, 05:12 PM
Just attended corporate training on these segments... was told of issues with shutters (traps) not opening properly on toner install. Symptom given is depletion of Dev units... check them ''traps" & key op customer on proper toner bottle replacement. Perhaps the Cyan bottles are coming from MFG with poor design & poor shutter contact. Good luck! Word was that this is easy for customer to induce!

hotfuser
01-02-2015, 11:17 AM
Just attended corporate training on these segments... was told of issues with shutters (traps) not opening properly on toner install. Symptom given is depletion of Dev units... check them ''traps" & key op customer on proper toner bottle replacement. Perhaps the Cyan bottles are coming from MFG with poor design & poor shutter contact. Good luck! Word was that this is easy for customer to induce!

Thank you from the response on this issue.
Do you work for KM or a dealer?
In regards to the traps not opening this seems not to be the case as it is not saying out of toner.
I will have my guys to have a look at this.
can you tell me how the customer induces the problem?

Many thanks in advance.

padedwalls
01-02-2015, 03:37 PM
Thank you from the response on this issue.
Do you work for KM or a dealer?
In regards to the traps not opening this seems not to be the case as it is not saying out of toner.
I will have my guys to have a look at this.
can you tell me how the customer induces the problem?

Many thanks in advance.

Dealer....
I'll get some research in & get back to you asap with follow up

padedwalls
01-02-2015, 04:13 PM
Ok quick talk with another tech has lead me to believe this to be an underlying High Voltage issue... as already stated here. Tech said he had high voltage replace resolve the issue on an "all developer deplete issue.. not just one". I'm just shocked at the number of machines you have exhibiting issue with just cyan! I think this is why techs on this site are curious as to why you have so many with identical issue... a something has to be common perception???

That above now being covered, as for my ''shutter" comment, I now recall the discussion in training with trainer. The trap between hopper & drum unit may not fully slide open when tech replaces drum unit! I don't want that to be confused with bottle to hopper ''trap", though I'm sure that can be faulty, or can be caused to be faulty, due to customer forcing improper toner into slot ... I was told in training that the bottles can be forcibly installed into improper slot by customer. Which in turn can damage bottle to hopper "trap" (exchange). If that happens & never gets reported to technician that customer did indeed do so "accidentally" (but removed), you'd be chasing your tail never knowing. Sorry for any confusion I caused as to what the customer can induce...

Good luck with machines.... still rather confused as to why so many cyan affected..

hotfuser
01-02-2015, 04:33 PM
Ok quick talk with another tech has lead me to believe this to be an underlying High Voltage issue... as already stated here. Tech said he had high voltage replace resolve the issue on an "all developer deplete issue.. not just one". I'm just shocked at the number of machines you have exhibiting issue with just cyan! I think this is why techs on this site are curious as to why you have so many with identical issue... a something has to be common perception???

That above now being covered, as for my ''shutter" comment, I now recall the discussion in training with trainer. The trap between hopper & drum unit may not fully slide open when tech replaces drum unit! I don't want that to be confused with bottle to hopper ''trap", though I'm sure that can be faulty, or can be caused to be faulty, due to customer forcing improper toner into slot ... I was told in training that the bottles can be forcibly installed into improper slot by customer. Which in turn can damage bottle to hopper "trap" (exchange). If that happens & never gets reported to technician that customer did indeed do so "accidentally" (but removed), you'd be chasing your tail never knowing. Sorry for any confusion I caused as to what the customer can induce...

Good luck with machines.... still rather confused as to why so many cyan affected..

Thanks Padedwalls. I have had HV units fail on these machines but that fault is rectifiable. The issue is that the hoppers are still full of toner so 'toner empty' does not appear.
Also the levels are as they should be.

I have had the manufacturer tech specs out to see one specific machine and all we carried out was a full factory reset and start a new setup procedure.
This cured this issue on this machine all be it we cahnged everything you could think of (MFP,PRCB,HV,transfer belt,4 cyan dev units,2 drum units, power supply and regulating baord at the front of the copier)

As you can see how frustrating this is.

allan
01-02-2015, 05:17 PM
If it is a toner problem this machines would give C2557 or C2558 like in case of black. If it is not a HV problem then it must be fualty TCR control. Is the TCR level on cyan between 4 to 8% even after dev depletion? if that is the case then it must be some sort of HV problem or a defect on the dev tank. Could even be some problem on the drum charge/discharge that changes the bias level. Could toner be the cause, these toner bottles must contain a persentage developer. Does your transfere belts show some sort of wear?

padedwalls
01-02-2015, 05:34 PM
http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/konica-minolta/13274-c550-error-c2553.html

perhaps a read through can help point in some direction???

"rebuild of toner bottle motor assy. corrected the problem. im thinking a bad seated connector.."


No TCR errors? Just struggling with so many Cyan issue on so many machines!

PeterG
01-12-2015, 03:58 AM
You guys that are having all the issues with the developer units.
Are you absolutely sure that you haven't got a toner delivery issue? I have had two of these machines now that have had seized Cyan delivery augers. The symptom is C-2551 errors. State confirm indicates toner levels of 1 or 2%.
It appears that toner pushes past the seals in the auger bearing & locks it solid. On one machine it was only the Cyan, but on the other it was Cyan & Magenta.
If you remove the upper cover & the toner bottles you can observe the auger drive rods from the toner delivery motors. If the bearings are seized you will see the drive rods vibrate instead of rotating.
I hope this post is of some assistance.:cool:

meldwo
01-12-2015, 04:43 AM
clean the box toner an check sensor and motor of toner cyan

hotfuser
03-19-2015, 05:12 PM
Afternoon guys

Has there been any issues out there with the Cyan units yet guys.

I am still getting units fail enclosed is the halftone and management list as you can see there is no dev and the levels are correct.

The unit is completely drained of dev for no apparent reason.

Any additional feedback would be much appreciated.

PeterG
03-19-2015, 10:32 PM
See above.

It is the toner hopper assembly that is the issue. It is not the dev unit itself!!!!!!!!!

wseyller
03-19-2015, 10:37 PM
I still have never changed one of the cyan. We keep one of each color in stock at the office just in case but its not something we use much.

I did have one yellow do similar to your sample but it hasn't returned since a couple months ago.


Our machines are usually set to do not display on these items. Not sure how many in the field but I know it is got to be a few hundred at least. If I remember I will ask my parts guy how many we have ordered ever.

hotfuser
03-20-2015, 09:19 AM
See above.

It is the toner hopper assembly that is the issue. It is not the dev unit itself!!!!!!!!!

if it is the toner hopper assembly why are the levels correct and it is only the cyan dev unit that is failing?

wseyller
03-20-2015, 01:34 PM
Just found out we have only order 2 cyans IUs ever. One is still new in our inventory.

habik
03-21-2015, 11:06 AM
Hi Hotfuser. Manic thread :).
So far no devs replaced in any of our machines. UK market, Europe. We have even Olivetti and Develop versions of these E-series. Only 1 instance where MF452plus (C454e) had weird black issue with every now and then pages would start coming overtoned, text on page ok and background black as night. All readings were correct all levels correct. So had suspicion of dev or HV or TB. Since I didn't have any of those on hand decided to pull ITB OUT, checked cleaned contacts on belt and inside. Nothing done on HV board. Changed cyan for black drum to eliminate if drum is causing the issue. (Chip swap). Problem persisted.
Last resort to do at that time was to reload/upgrade FW. Problem persisted. Couldn't do much more so ordered new dev. Came back with new bk dev and the problem rectified it self. Couldn't believe it. And it is fine till this day.

So I personally think the issue was firmware.
That is the only thing your machines have in common.
This could be:
a) incorrect upgrade process (jump from mass production to which ever is the latest avoiding version up firmware )
b) Incorrect machine and type selection during firmware upgrade. (Default may change between mass and version up firmware!)

As you said you had to take one machine with KM Tech specialist to factory default and built the firmware versions up and machine is holding OK. Do you recall the full procedure? I think the answer is there.

Wouldn't it be worth to do the same procedure to all of your machines? Time consuming but it may do the trick.
Hope this helps. Have a nice weekend!


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EarthKmTech
03-21-2015, 01:52 PM
We had a cyan spill developer recently, a C454. It is the first time ever and the machine has been there quite some time and does a lot of colour printing. It is a real estate agent so there is a lot of big blue sky visible in the photos they print so the cyan is getting a work out. We only found out because it soiled the black PH window and the light print on black and white was the cause for the call out.

hotfuser
04-27-2015, 05:56 PM
Hi Hotfuser. Manic thread :).
So far no devs replaced in any of our machines. UK market, Europe. We have even Olivetti and Develop versions of these E-series. Only 1 instance where MF452plus (C454e) had weird black issue with every now and then pages would start coming overtoned, text on page ok and background black as night. All readings were correct all levels correct. So had suspicion of dev or HV or TB. Since I didn't have any of those on hand decided to pull ITB OUT, checked cleaned contacts on belt and inside. Nothing done on HV board. Changed cyan for black drum to eliminate if drum is causing the issue. (Chip swap). Problem persisted.
Last resort to do at that time was to reload/upgrade FW. Problem persisted. Couldn't do much more so ordered new dev. Came back with new bk dev and the problem rectified it self. Couldn't believe it. And it is fine till this day.

So I personally think the issue was firmware.
That is the only thing your machines have in common.
This could be:
a) incorrect upgrade process (jump from mass production to which ever is the latest avoiding version up firmware )
b) Incorrect machine and type selection during firmware upgrade. (Default may change between mass and version up firmware!)

As you said you had to take one machine with KM Tech specialist to factory default and built the firmware versions up and machine is holding OK. Do you recall the full procedure? I think the answer is there.

Wouldn't it be worth to do the same procedure to all of your machines? Time consuming but it may do the trick.
Hope this helps. Have a nice weekend!


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This is still ongoing as i am still getting issues only with the cyan units.KM have not got all my list prints of the copiers that are falling over and i am waiting on an answer.

copier tech
04-27-2015, 09:20 PM
Well I've still never replaced any dev units on the C284 series & I have around 60 in my patch, visted one last week with 500k still on the original devs, fuser & transfer belt.

hotfuser
05-26-2015, 09:22 AM
This is still ongoing as i am still getting issues only with the cyan units.KM have not got all my list prints of the copiers that are falling over and i am waiting on an answer.

Guess what more units failing.

I installed a C224e last April 2014 and its first call was for C2551 we replaced the Dev unit and with in 2 hours the new unit had failed.

This seems that i am the only person that is having this problem.

I do not know which way to turn.

habik
05-26-2015, 09:37 AM
Can you post the devs serial nr on the box, if you have some on hand.
Also isnt it easier to save the list output ob USB Stick. That way you can email it to KM.


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