J-7229/J-7217/J-7216 & Both Sides Adjustment

[orestesp]

Greetings,

I have, yet again, ran into two problems while printing with the C6500. I will outline each one in detail down below, thank you to anyone who takes the time to read through this.

First of all, my configuration:
C6500 + IC-303, with a little over ~2,700,000 impressions.
FS-607 Booklet Finisher (which has always been attached to this engine)

• Problem #1: Paper exiting from the main tray of the FS-607 Booklet Finisher will come out halfway through, and then I will get a J-7229 or a J-7217 or a J-7216.

No matter what paper it is (plain, coated, thin or thick), it will barely be pushed out by the exit rollers on the main tray of the finisher, and then it will either jam instantly after that or when the second piece of paper arrives at the exit of the finisher. You can see what this looks like in the photos I'll be posting down below. However, if I set the paper to exit from the sub tray, it will do so just fine with no hiccups.

After taking a closer look at it, I noticed that one of the foam paper exit rollers (the one on the far left of the finisher to be exact, P/N: 122H48251) had basically disintegrated, and I thought to myself, that I had found the culprit. Alas, that would be too easy! This roller wasn't even supposed to come into contact with the paper I was running at the time (A4), so it had to be ruled out.

Turns out that the thing sitting on top of those paper exit rollers on the main tray of the finisher (I think it's the stacker?) that has two white rollers made out of hard plastic wasn't pushing down and out the paper as it was supposed to do. After fiddling around with it (literally just pushing it gently up and down), it seems that it is now able to push the paper down and out of the finisher. I ran a few sheets out of the main tray without jamming after that, but I was wondering; was this a one time thing, or is there a bigger problem that has yet to manifest itself? Before the jamming became persistent, it had been intermittent for a couple of months now. Perhaps something needs to be adjusted?

Link to the photos: FS-607 - Album on Imgur

• Problem #2: Side 1 and Side 2 are completely out of alignment.

When printing duplex from the bypass tray (or from any tray for that matter, we just almost always use the bypass tray), the two sides are completely out of alignment. To remedy this, I tried the tray alignment function in CWS. I printed the configuration page in a paper the same size as the one that the job that I was going to print was going to be printed on, entered the numbers, re-RIPped the job, and tried again. Unfortunately, there was little to no change.

So after that, I did the chart adjustment procedure from the copier touch screen for the bypass tray. After inputting all the values for both the front and the back, and saving those values, I tried again. The left/right alignment was almost OK this time (but was still off by a couple of millimeters), but the up/down alignment was horrific.

I am now guessing that the Restart Timing Adjustment/Centering Adjustment/FD & CD Mag Adjustment found under "Printer Adjustment" have to come into play (and if not, when do I need to perform these adjustments)?

The stock that I was printing this particular job on was 250gsm coated semi-gloss A4. I used plain A4 paper for all measurement pages.

I am at a complete loss as to what to do next. Any help is appreciated.

Happy new year's eve and may 2020 be a good year for you all.

Thank you.

[Desert Rat]

The first thing I usually do is clean all the paper path rollers with rubber cleaner and use a scotch brite to get the glaze
from gloss paper off.
I have run into that jam in the finisher before and found that sometimes the sensor does not get actuated because of the foam
rollers being worn. I would change them first. I have had to pull that whole paper exit assembly out of the main frame and check that for anything
out of place. And check the input rollers in the finisher also.
The input rollers to the registration unit sometimes lose drive because the springs on the idler rollers pull the plate up. Bend it back
on service calls. Just push it down on the outside edges. If the paper is not getting damaged it is probably a timing issue.

Hope that helps

DR

[methogod]

does it jam with the finisher removed? does it jame to the sub tray on the finisher?
do you run alot of heavy stock? we tend to see the exit grit roller and decurling roller going early because of 12PT card stock.


was the registration rollers replaced at 2.5 million?
would clean the drive rollers, and registration rollers...
RETEST...

[orestesp]

Thank you for replying.

The first thing I usually do is clean all the paper path rollers with rubber cleaner and use a scotch brite to get the glaze
from gloss paper off.
I have run into that jam in the finisher before and found that sometimes the sensor does not get actuated because of the foam
rollers being worn. I would change them first. I have had to pull that whole paper exit assembly out of the main frame and check that for anything
out of place. And check the input rollers in the finisher also.

does it jam with the finisher removed? does it jame to the sub tray on the finisher?
do you run alot of heavy stock? we tend to see the exit grit roller and decurling roller going early because of 12PT card stock.

Like I said in my first post, the problem is now gone. The jamming was only present when I set the paper to exit from the main tray of the finisher. The exact same stock would run fine through the sub tray but would jam when exiting from the main tray, so I don't think it has anything to do with the decurling roller. What caused the jamming is that the thing that I've highlighted in this picture: Imgur: The magic of the Internet that has two white hard plastic rollers, it wouldn't push down on the paper exiting the finisher so that the foam rollers would push the paper out.

The only thing I did was just move it up and down just out of curiosity, and then after trying again, it worked! It pushed down on the paper as it should and then the foam paper exit rollers were able to grip the paper and push it out. I ran the last 100 sheets of the job that I was printing through the main tray after this without a single jam occuring. However, I will be changing the both the paper exit and intermediate conveyance foam rollers of the finisher, because they are obviously way past their 200,000 replacement cycle.

The first thing I usually do is clean all the paper path rollers with rubber cleaner and use a scotch brite to get the glaze
from gloss paper off.

By rubber cleaner do you mean a degreaser? I don't think that stores here sell "rubber cleaner", or if they do, they sell it under a different commercial name. Would IPA be a suitable replacement?

And for cleaning rollers in general... You use scotch brite + the solvent that you mentioned for the hard plastic ones and then for the soft rubber ones just the solvent that you mentioned with a e.g. a paper towel?

The input rollers to the registration unit sometimes lose drive because the springs on the idler rollers pull the plate up. Bend it back
on service calls. Just push it down on the outside edges. If the paper is not getting damaged it is probably a timing issue.

Hope that helps

DR

I am not entirely familiar with the registration part of this machine, as I haven't touched it before. We only have a couple thousand impressions on it so far... You mean this plate, right? Imgur: The magic of the Internet

was the registration rollers replaced at 2.5 million?
would clean the drive rollers, and registration rollers...
RETEST...

Sorry but I need a little help here.

By "registration rollers" do you mean P/N: 65LAR70700? I doubt that this was changed on time, judging by some other glaring omissions by the techs that were maintaining it prior to me, but I haven't taken a look at it myself.

And by "drive rollers" do you mean P/N: A03UR73300? The one responsible for driving the transfer belt? Can you help me locate it?

Finally, does the procedure highlighted here (c6500 duplex registration problem) by Stirton.M apply to my case?

Happy new year to you both.

[methogod]

exit rollers, both sponge and drive would be my first replacement after good cleaning...

2+ mil on the smaller finisher is a good bit. would also watch for wear in that exit flag.

[Desert Rat]

The rubber cleaner I use is rubber rejuvenator. I get mine from precisionroller.com.
Alcohol will sometimes harden rubber. For the white hard plastic alcohol works fine or
just use the scotch brite pad.
Apply the rejuvenator to a cloth for the rubber drive rollers then go over them with the scotch brite
and one more time with the cloth. That usually works for me.
The plate I speak of is on the very right side where paper from the bypass and other trays enter the path to the registration.
Be sure and clean the duplex rubber rollers also. They are a pain. The registration drive rollers are under the white idler rollers.
I forget what the station number is but the paper clearing panel opens to the left and is to the right of the transfer roller.
Also while you are looking at the duplex if any of the developers are leaking it can collect in the duplex path as well. This will
embed in the rollers. I have found that it will collect above the duplex path and spill out a little at a time.
Generally I would use denatured alcohol. Rubbing alcohol has mineral oil in it and is good for sore muscles. Some oils are not
good for rubber and may make them to soft.

HTH

DR

[Desert Rat]

I agree with methogod,
Cleaning the rollers is a good quick fix and will last for a while but replacement is best.

DR

[orestesp]

Hi,

I will be cleaning the rollers on the registration section as well as the ADU, try again, and report back with my results.

Just a quick question that might seem a bit naive; do the hard plastic idler rollers need to be replaced? You guys are referring to the rubber registration rollers, correct?

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

[Desert Rat]

The rubber rollers are generally the drive rollers in this machine. I seldom replace the hard white idlers if they spin easily. Sometimes I will use a 2" wide piece
of 20lb paper and feed it between the drive and Idler rollers and pull it against the paper travel to test the grippyness ( just made that up) of the drive roller.
be sure and put a piece under each roller and test for even pressure. Figure out away to keep the rollers from turning while pulling the paper. Don't hold the roller
or you may induce pressure.

If they are not the same or at least close you get some skew of the paper while it travels.
And yes the registration drive rollers are the rubber ones.

Good luck

DR

[orestesp]

The rubber rollers are generally the drive rollers in this machine. I seldom replace the hard white idlers if they spin easily. Sometimes I will use a 2" wide piece
of 20lb paper and feed it between the drive and Idler rollers and pull it against the paper travel to test the grippyness ( just made that up) of the drive roller.
be sure and put a piece under each roller and test for even pressure. Figure out away to keep the rollers from turning while pulling the paper. Don't hold the roller
or you may induce pressure.

If they are not the same or at least close you get some skew of the paper while it travels.
And yes the registration drive rollers are the rubber ones.

Good luck

DR

I printed the job that I was printing before and did a comparison. It's pretty much the same. I cleaned all the ADU and registration rollers (idlers with some IPA and took the glaze off as you suggested with scotch brite, some of them were really dirty and the rubber ones with some WD-40 and then wiped the excess off), did FD-Mag adj, CD-Mag adj and both came within spec, no changes needed. I also bent the plate inwards, as per your suggestion.

I did the chart adjustment again for the bypass tray, and then tried printing two rectangles, one on each side of the paper, both dead center, measuring at 190x277mm on a A4 sheet, then traced the second side with a blue pen, and well, it's awful. I've scanned it and attached it, so you can see what I am talking about.

Finally, while digging through some older threads on paper skew, someone mentioned that the ADU sagging could be causing this. The ADU on this machine is sagging as well when pulled out. Could this have any effect?

Any other ideas that I should try?

Thanks.

20200103110513915.pdf