0534 0533 multi feed timing 5053ci 6053ci

[fishleg]

Seem to be constantly seeing this code usually it's because the machine is having to deal with poor paper. Customer recently switched paper so now it's jamming took paper to same exact machine within a 100 sheets 0534 0533 so it's definitely paper that's causing the problem.

Is there anything I can do to help the vertical conveyancing section feed the paper it seems to be there that it slips on tray 3/4. Konica brought out ribbed tyres that improved paper feeding at the side in the vertical conveyancing section with poor dusty paper on tray 3/4.

It seems to work fine higher up so tray 1/2 but 3/4 just get a jam every 50 or so. Doesn't seem to multi feed even though the jam codes says it does from what I could see it's struggling to pull the paper up. I'd guess clutches etc otherwise but machines done 30k, 2 machines same problem and two trays with same problem.

Anyone else had similar problems?

[tmaged]

I'd take them a case of paper to prove it. We had the same with a customer using Boise X-9 paper. Our paper ran fine.
Their Boise was a bad batch, and it was happening on 4-5 machines at this location.

[Ropariva]

Those codes are a timing issue at the tray feed, not the vertical feed.
Have you tried decreasing or increasing the spring tension at the separation roller? One notch on the screw either way should see a difference.
I’m not a big fan of these feed units and I’m even less of a fan of blaming paper quality. Especially if it seems to work ok in trays 1 and 2.....

[blackcat4866]

For 0533, 0534 we've had to increase page separation. You've probably had to adjust page separation before. Decreasing the spring tension increases the page separation. I think of it this way: More spring tension makes the separation roller follow the feed roller more. Less spring tension makes the separation follow less, resisting multiple feeds. There are only (5) increments of adjustment, typically at the center of the adjustment.

https://www.copytechnet.com/forums/k...ml#post1663271

=^..^=

[fishleg]

Those codes are a timing issue at the tray feed, not the vertical feed.
Have you tried decreasing or increasing the spring tension at the separation roller? One notch on the screw either way should see a difference.
I’m not a big fan of these feed units and I’m even less of a fan of blaming paper quality. Especially if it seems to work ok in trays 1 and 2.....

To be honest I didn't try that spring. When I have tried it before you either get no feeds or if you go the other way just double feeds for fun. No matter which way you put it doesn't really solve the problem permanently just makes it look like its the machine and not the customer buying turd paper.

The reason I'm saying its the side door and not the feed is when it jams its basically sat at the vertical conveyancing section. The 6 jams I did see , 1 of those vertical rollers bottom rhs door pulled the paper to back skewed so could tell one side had traction and the other didn't. Door rollers etc look fine and no way would two machines have the same mechanical problem. You had success changing that spring tension?

I've got two trays, two machines same symptoms, What would you order?

I mean how far do you take it do you just play with springs all day till you get it to jam 1/100 instead of 1/50?

Any more ideas? Brand new tyres, I even tried Konica tyres on feed and separation just to try it made little to no difference. No way you can play with timing on the bottom trays so its a bit more forgiving? would need to the timing for when it reaches the vertical conveyancing section.

[blackcat4866]

To be honest I didn't try that spring. When I have tried it before you either get no feeds or if you go the other way just double feeds for fun. No matter which way you put it doesn't really solve the problem permanently just makes it look like its the machine and not the customer buying turd paper. ...

It's very common to mis-understand how roller separation works. In many cases techs tighten the spring thinking that it will give them more separation. IF it were pad separation that would work. But it's roller separation. If you tighten the spring the separation follows the feed roller more, and separates LESS.

I prefer not to disparage the enduser's paper, until I'm absolutely sure. I'll bring three reams of paper stored in our office. When it's the customer's paper, in the past I've been unable to run (3) pages of the customers paper without a jam, yet I could run out the entire 1500 sheets or our paper.

The reason I'm saying its the side door and not the feed is when it jams its basically sat at the vertical conveyancing section. The 6 jams I did see , 1 of those vertical rollers bottom the door pulled the paper to back skewed so could tell one side had traction and the other didn't. Door rollers etc look fine and no way would two machines have the same mechanical problem. You had success changing that spring tension? ...

Yes.

I've got two trays, two machines same symptoms, What would you order?

I mean how far do you take it do you just play with springs all day till you get it to jam 1/100 instead of 1/50? ...

I would start by running my paper first. If I was still getting 0533, 0534, I would increase the page separation (1) increment on both trays. It usually takes me about 5 minutes to do this. If you blindfold yourself I think you could maybe stretch out that time. Then you can test. If you're still getting 0533, 0534, you can increase the separation another increment (another 5 minutes). If you spent more than an hour on the whole call I would be surprised.

Any more ideas? Brand new tyres, I even tried Konica tyres on feed and separation just to try it made little to no difference. No way you can play with timing on the bottom trays so its a bit more forgiving? would need to the timing for when it reaches the vertical conveyancing section.

You're way overthinking this. Just do the adjustment properly. =^..^=

[fishleg]

It's very common to mis-understand how roller separation works. In many cases techs tighten the spring thinking that it will give them more separation. IF it were pad separation that would work. But it's roller separation. If you tighten the spring the separation follows the feed roller more, and separates LESS.

I prefer not to disparage the enduser's paper, until I'm absolutely sure. I'll bring three reams of paper stored in our office. When it's the customer's paper, in the past I've been unable to run (3) pages of the customers paper without a jam, yet I could run out the entire 1500 sheets or our paper.



Yes.



I would start by running my paper first. If I was still getting 0533, 0534, I would increase the page separation (1) increment on both trays. It usually takes me about 5 minutes to do this. If you blindfold yourself I think you could maybe stretch out that time. Then you can test. If you're still getting 0533, 0534, you can increase the separation another increment (another 5 minutes). If you spent more than an hour on the whole call I would be surprised.



You're way overthinking this. Just do the adjustment properly. =^..^=

I'm an over thinker unfortunately. I think I'll have to get a box of paper for the car I think because of lock down / lack of demand it's turned into a impossible to get good paper / only crap paper is available / suppliers passing on increased costs to customers so they are trying to save money.

I don't think it's a problem at the feed station hard to really see what's going on with them bottom trays. What I didn't want to do is mess with springs and create a blame game of it's jamming again in a few thousand sheets please come sort it again.

I've been here before with Konica machines it's just a total nightmare clean vertical conveyancing rollers and a few days later customer complains jamming again. The paper they are using is almost like plastic coated tracing paper btw.

I was tempted to try and stretch the pickup spring and door idling roller pressure springs but how far do you go?

Thanks massively for the help I will try increasing the separation pressure by 1 next time. I don't think that's the problem but I'll definitely try it. It's a nightmare to even test because you might get 50 sheets through fine then it will jam. When it does jam it's sat at the two small gray rollers on bottom rhs door with registration flashing on the screen so to me it's tried to drive then failed to get traction.

[fishleg]

I went back to have another look with another engineer we both agreed on it being the paper. We messed around with springs putting a little more pressure seemed to help but it still jams but at least its less for them till they use up the paper.

I cleaned the Kyocera one out and compressed the sping so it would bite more on the shaft. I've yet to try it but I do think it will definitely help. The smaller printers seem to have the exact same problem to me its as if there isn't enough resistance so the tyre turns instead of stopping and gripping the mutli feed.

I would guess if that spring with the x was tighter and the separation pressure was less its less likely to multi feed?

Please correct my logic if I've got that understanding wrong btw?

So yeah bit stuck really other than telling them to try different paper.

IMG_20210524_154356_edit_72842505199301.jpg

[blackcat4866]

You are correct, you'll get more separation. A side effect of additional separation is needing to change the separation roller more often because of flat spots. =^..^=

[fishleg]

You are correct, you'll get more separation. A side effect of additional separation is needing to change the separation roller more often because of flat spots. =^..^=

The red one is Konica separation type. The spring is much tighter on the shaft I'd say at least double the resistance. The spring is different as well the wire is flat where the Kyocera is round so its got less contact.

I've got no idea if that would make things any different. Any one else got any hacks to make these have less mutli feeds?