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  1. #11
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    Re: eco p3150 continuing image quality problem

    Hello,

    FYI: I have the same problem with my p3145dn (2000 pages, Original Toner).

    But I do not fix this, because amazon will send me a new printer.

    Strange effect, I've never seen it like this!

    If I increase the fusing temperature (for example "thick paper") the effect becomes stronger ... (The picture shows this).
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  2. #12
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    Re: eco p3150 continuing image quality problem

    Now amazon has sent me a brand new printer. It also makes these spikes (printout status page, menu plan, etc ...).

    Now I'm a little perplexed ...

    The serial numbers differ significantly, and smaller details also seem to be different, but both are "made in Vietnam".

    The effect occurs with different types of paper. I have already connected the printer to a different power-socket, checked whether L, N and PE are also present (230V AC here in Germany), enviromental conditions are not unusual (20 degrees, 60% humidity). The effect is there even without a network cable (only printer connected to the socket).

    Let's see what the Kyocera Support has to say about it these days ...
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  3. #13
    Senior Tech 250+ Posts PrintWhisperer's Avatar
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    Re: eco p3150 continuing image quality problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainer View Post
    Hello,

    FYI: I have the same problem with my p3145dn (2000 pages, Original Toner).

    ...

    If I increase the fusing temperature (for example "thick paper") the effect becomes stronger ... (The picture shows this).

    Do you mean you changed the media type to Thick and used 20lb because this is the type of test I was posting about earlier in the thread, but fuser temp is not the only thing that gets changed.

    What we are interested in here is the Transfer bias which must also be increased for thick paper. You should try a lighter weight setting (up to the point where fusing is insufficient), and the driver settings as well.


    It is a problem only seen on this small printer engine and systemic as all your replacements have the same problem. They may have pushed the speed for this design too far as the toner particle size gets finer and finer.


    I love your example because the toner is clearly blasted out of the line with white streaks where is has been removed. Like tiny solar mass ejections from mag field lines, always away from the direction of movement.

  4. #14
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    Re: eco p3150 continuing image quality problem

    Quote Originally Posted by PrintWhisperer View Post
    What we are interested in here is the Transfer bias which must also be increased for thick paper. You should try a lighter weight setting (up to the point where fusing is insufficient), and the driver settings as well.
    I don't see something like that as a solution, at best as a work-around. The problem still persists. Because what do I do if I want to print on thicker paper, then I cannot leave the parameters on "light" and the problem is there again!

    If kyocera cannot fix the problem with other firmware, the devices have a bad design for me and I will not use them.

    Another observation is perhaps interesting: When I got the first printer (2021-03) the air in the office was very dry. (30-40%). I couldn't see any spikes, but there was a slight toner shadow under thicker lines. Perhaps there may be no connection, but perhaps it is possible that a slight shadow can be seen in very dry air, which becomes "spikes" in more humid air (currently 60-65%) ...

  5. #15
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    Re: eco p3150 continuing image quality problem

    Just got back from visiting this again. Put in a warrantee drum. Still looked like it was making image defect. Since people were mentioning paper types, I went to confirm settings. I found a setting under plain paper that was calling for heavy 1. I set it to normal 1, and it started printing properly. I don't know where this setting was before, and when I went back to look at it again and confirm it for all cassettes, it seemed to disappear once more. Weird, but at least it's working.

  6. #16
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    Re: eco p3150 continuing image quality problem

    Quote Originally Posted by tmw View Post
    Weird, but at least it's working.
    For me the case has cleared up:

    In general, these devices are sensitive to moisture in the paper. The effect that can be seen in the photos is called the "Obiki effect" at Kyocera. It is created by the water evaporating in the fuser unit, which "blows" the toner off before it is fused.

    This is also the reason why the service manual specifies a humidity of 36 to 65% for printing with optimal quality, although the printer itself is specified up to 80%.

    In my case, two things came together: On the one hand, the paper was "at the limit" with up to (or more?) 65% moisture, on the other hand the firmware was out of date, and Kyocera still carried out some optimizations here.

    It is also clear: If the paper is (too) moist, the greater the fusing temperature, the greater the effect.

    PS: (Factory default ist "normal 2" for plain paper).

  7. #17
    Senior Tech 250+ Posts PrintWhisperer's Avatar
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    Re: eco p3150 continuing image quality problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainer View Post
    For me the case has cleared up:

    In general, these devices are sensitive to moisture in the paper. The effect that can be seen in the photos is called the "Obiki effect" at Kyocera. It is created by the water evaporating in the fuser unit, which "blows" the toner off before it is fused.

    This is also the reason why the service manual specifies a humidity of 36 to 65% for printing with optimal quality, although the printer itself is specified up to 80%.

    In my case, two things came together: On the one hand, the paper was "at the limit" with up to (or more?) 65% moisture, on the other hand the firmware was out of date, and Kyocera still carried out some optimizations here.

    It is also clear: If the paper is (too) moist, the greater the fusing temperature, the greater the effect.

    PS: (Factory default ist "normal 2" for plain paper).
    Great observation on the moisture content, what device did you use to measure it? I have been looking into the standard 'Wood/Paper' moisture meter with 2 electrodes (resistive) but they start pretty cheap and I wonder at their accuracy.

    I'm not sure I agree with the 'water vapor outgassing' theory as the effect is a bit too directional and 'fine-lined'. Moisture induced micro-arc would seem more apt.

    Has anyone done a panic stop in between transfer and fuser to see if the effect is fuser induced?

  8. #18
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    Re: eco p3150 continuing image quality problem

    Quote Originally Posted by PrintWhisperer View Post
    Great observation on the moisture content, what device did you use to measure it? I have been looking into the standard 'Wood/Paper' moisture meter with 2 electrodes (resistive) but they start pretty cheap and I wonder at their accuracy.
    I do not measure the moisture from the paper itself but the moisture in the air (with an electronic measuring device, uncalibrated). And here I can make the observation that exactly corresponds to the statements made by Kyocera in the service-manual: If the humidity rises to 65% (or above), "quality losses" can be seen on the printouts. (There is a delay in this, because with increasing humidity the paper takes a while to also become more humid).

    And vice versa, the printouts are okay if the humidity is well below 65%.

  9. #19
    Senior Tech 250+ Posts PrintWhisperer's Avatar
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    Re: eco p3150 continuing image quality problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainer View Post
    I do not measure the moisture from the paper itself but the moisture in the air (with an electronic measuring device, uncalibrated). And here I can make the observation that exactly corresponds to the statements made by Kyocera in the service-manual: If the humidity rises to 65% (or above), "quality losses" can be seen on the printouts. (There is a delay in this, because with increasing humidity the paper takes a while to also become more humid).

    And vice versa, the printouts are okay if the humidity is well below 65%.
    Good to know. The SM comments are more along the lines of atmospheric effects where humidity effects charging and DV bias. They (japanese engineers) generally don't get that specific on paper moisture content, expect paper is sold in moisture proof wrappers, and even provide plastic zip-lock bags for storing partially opened reams....not that any customers use them

    However with the new Ink-jet machines from Kyocera, moisture and curl are critical factors so I am trying to assess using a meter to actually measure the paper's mositure content.

  10. #20
    Senior Tech 250+ Posts Drivee's Avatar
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    Re: eco p3150 continuing image quality problem

    I think that this is air bubble in toner. When pressure roller and fuser start to bake toner, it explode and push toner out from line.

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