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  1. #251
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts theengel's Avatar
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    Re: Any stargazers out there...?

    Pardon me, but you've just conceded that Galileo was not convicted of heresy.

    Imagine how far you'd have gotten if you'd dug just a little deeper...

    Like, you might have found that the Inquisition that 'condemned' Galileo was an office originally set up by the pope, but that it quickly turned into a political tool. Galileo comes at a time when huge portions of the population are just getting away from the idea of astrology--and that was brought on by the Catholic church.

    Imagine for a second, most of the world believes that the movement of the stars is an expression of 'the gods'. The Catholic church is the one to finally convince scholars that it might be a perpetuating system of motion--a predictable one. Copernicus, backed by the church, came up with a mathematical system for PREDICTING planetary and stellar movement. That, in itself, is an incredible feat. Within a hundred years (and this is before they had mass communication) the church had taught this system to thousands of people, even though it completely went against what had been taught previously. Clerics, who did not understand the math behind his system, were wowed into belief. That was one of the first really big breakthroughs. Copernicus had it wrong, but his premise that there was a natural and cyclical movement in the heavens wasn't.

    A hundred years later, Galileo comes along with another system. One NOT known at the time, and he's trying to teach it to bishops who'd already been told that Copernicus had it right. Another big change like that was hard to swallow--not just by the church but by civilization as a whole. And while the political force of the day (the Inquisition) condemned him for it, the secret was out and it didn't take long for the church to accept it.

    Your accusation that the church stifled scientific study is as ignorant as the the claim that the medical professionals stifled the findings of Louis Pasteur. And I'm sure you can find public statements and legal documents condemning Pasteur, because that's exactly what happened. Pasteur was a pioneer who challenged 'settled science.' He was revolutionary. And he was right. He proved the scientists of the day wrong. But to say that the scientists of the day were stifling scientific discovery is just stupid. The scientists of the day were defending what they thought to be truth. They were protecting the industry from fraud... which they had every right and obligation to do.

    The inquisition was doing the same thing. The men who condemned Galileo didn't understand his system--any more than they understood the system of Copernicus. They were protecting the world against fraud, as they had every right and obligation to do... as they were commissioned to do by the church and by sovereign governments. But the mere fact that they had anything to protect is evidence of the church's contribution to the sciences.

    What if there were a major discovery today? One that slapped 'settled science' in the face? It would not be accepted at first. It would be ridiculed. So would that mean that ALL those who argue with it are stifling science?

    That's a position impossible to defend.

  2. #252
    Aging Tech 2,500+ Posts
    Any stargazers out there...?

    copier addict's Avatar
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    Re: Any stargazers out there...?

    Quote Originally Posted by theengel View Post
    Pardon me, but you've just conceded that Galileo was not convicted of heresy.

    Imagine how far you'd have gotten if you'd dug just a little deeper...

    Like, you might have found that the Inquisition that 'condemned' Galileo was an office originally set up by the pope, but that it quickly turned into a political tool. Galileo comes at a time when huge portions of the population are just getting away from the idea of astrology--and that was brought on by the Catholic church.

    Imagine for a second, most of the world believes that the movement of the stars is an expression of 'the gods'. The Catholic church is the one to finally convince scholars that it might be a perpetuating system of motion--a predictable one. Copernicus, backed by the church, came up with a mathematical system for PREDICTING planetary and stellar movement. That, in itself, is an incredible feat. Within a hundred years (and this is before they had mass communication) the church had taught this system to thousands of people, even though it completely went against what had been taught previously. Clerics, who did not understand the math behind his system, were wowed into belief. That was one of the first really big breakthroughs. Copernicus had it wrong, but his premise that there was a natural and cyclical movement in the heavens wasn't.

    A hundred years later, Galileo comes along with another system. One NOT known at the time, and he's trying to teach it to bishops who'd already been told that Copernicus had it right. Another big change like that was hard to swallow--not just by the church but by civilization as a whole. And while the political force of the day (the Inquisition) condemned him for it, the secret was out and it didn't take long for the church to accept it.

    Your accusation that the church stifled scientific study is as ignorant as the the claim that the medical professionals stifled the findings of Louis Pasteur. And I'm sure you can find public statements and legal documents condemning Pasteur, because that's exactly what happened. Pasteur was a pioneer who challenged 'settled science.' He was revolutionary. And he was right. He proved the scientists of the day wrong. But to say that the scientists of the day were stifling scientific discovery is just stupid. The scientists of the day were defending what they thought to be truth. They were protecting the industry from fraud... which they had every right and obligation to do.

    The inquisition was doing the same thing. The men who condemned Galileo didn't understand his system--any more than they understood the system of Copernicus. They were protecting the world against fraud, as they had every right and obligation to do... as they were commissioned to do by the church and by sovereign governments. But the mere fact that they had anything to protect is evidence of the church's contribution to the sciences.

    What if there were a major discovery today? One that slapped 'settled science' in the face? It would not be accepted at first. It would be ridiculed. So would that mean that ALL those who argue with it are stifling science?

    That's a position impossible to defend.
    Thanks, but I'm done with this. You have your opinion and I see how much the catholic church still refuses to move forward. Good luck

  3. #253
    Retired 10,000+ Posts slimslob's Avatar
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    Re: Any stargazers out there...?

    Quote Originally Posted by theengel View Post
    Pardon me, but you've just conceded that Galileo was not convicted of heresy.

    Imagine how far you'd have gotten if you'd dug just a little deeper...

    Like, you might have found that the Inquisition that 'condemned' Galileo was an office originally set up by the pope, but that it quickly turned into a political tool. Galileo comes at a time when huge portions of the population are just getting away from the idea of astrology--and that was brought on by the Catholic church.

    Imagine for a second, most of the world believes that the movement of the stars is an expression of 'the gods'. The Catholic church is the one to finally convince scholars that it might be a perpetuating system of motion--a predictable one. Copernicus, backed by the church, came up with a mathematical system for PREDICTING planetary and stellar movement. That, in itself, is an incredible feat. Within a hundred years (and this is before they had mass communication) the church had taught this system to thousands of people, even though it completely went against what had been taught previously. Clerics, who did not understand the math behind his system, were wowed into belief. That was one of the first really big breakthroughs. Copernicus had it wrong, but his premise that there was a natural and cyclical movement in the heavens wasn't.

    A hundred years later, Galileo comes along with another system. One NOT known at the time, and he's trying to teach it to bishops who'd already been told that Copernicus had it right. Another big change like that was hard to swallow--not just by the church but by civilization as a whole. And while the political force of the day (the Inquisition) condemned him for it, the secret was out and it didn't take long for the church to accept it.

    Your accusation that the church stifled scientific study is as ignorant as the the claim that the medical professionals stifled the findings of Louis Pasteur. And I'm sure you can find public statements and legal documents condemning Pasteur, because that's exactly what happened. Pasteur was a pioneer who challenged 'settled science.' He was revolutionary. And he was right. He proved the scientists of the day wrong. But to say that the scientists of the day were stifling scientific discovery is just stupid. The scientists of the day were defending what they thought to be truth. They were protecting the industry from fraud... which they had every right and obligation to do.

    The inquisition was doing the same thing. The men who condemned Galileo didn't understand his system--any more than they understood the system of Copernicus. They were protecting the world against fraud, as they had every right and obligation to do... as they were commissioned to do by the church and by sovereign governments. But the mere fact that they had anything to protect is evidence of the church's contribution to the sciences.

    What if there were a major discovery today? One that slapped 'settled science' in the face? It would not be accepted at first. It would be ridiculed. So would that mean that ALL those who argue with it are stifling science?

    That's a position impossible to defend.
    Have you ever read any of Immanuel Velikovsky books or are you one of those who ridicule and reject his works? A good place to start and in keeping with the title of this thread is Stargazers and Gravediggers: Memoirs to Worlds in Collision. There are also his earlier works:
    Ages in Chaos: A reconstruction of ancient history from the Exodus to King Akhnaton
    Ages in Chaos I: From the Exodus to King Akhnaton
    Ages in Chaos II: Ramses II and his times
    Ages in Chaos III: Peoples of the sea
    Worlds in Collision
    Earth in Upheaval
    For a little lighter reading there is Theses for the Reconstruction of Ancient History in 1945, where he claimed that the history of the ancient Near East down to the time of Alexander the Great is garbled.

  4. #254
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts theengel's Avatar
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    Re: Any stargazers out there...?

    Quote Originally Posted by copier addict View Post
    Thanks, but I'm done with this.
    I'm sure you are.

  5. #255
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts
    Any stargazers out there...?

    FrohnB's Avatar
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    Re: Any stargazers out there...?

    Closest pictures of Sun reveal mysterious '''campfires'''

    The closest-ever images taken of the sun have revealed mini solar flares called “campfires” dotted across its surface.
    The images were captured last month by the Solar Orbiter, a European Space Agency (ESA) probe designed and built in the UK. Scientists say the pictures could shed light on the mysterious process that means the outer layer of the star is so much hotter than the layers below.
    The spacecraft came within 47 million miles of the sun’s surface and passed between the orbits of Venus and Mercury.


    Pretty cool stuff!
    Omertà

  6. #256
    Senior Tech 2,500+ Posts
    Any stargazers out there...?

    mikadonovan's Avatar
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    Re: Any stargazers out there...?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrohnB View Post
    Closest pictures of Sun reveal mysterious '''campfires'''

    The closest-ever images taken of the sun have revealed mini solar flares called “campfires” dotted across its surface.
    The images were captured last month by the Solar Orbiter, a European Space Agency (ESA) probe designed and built in the UK. Scientists say the pictures could shed light on the mysterious process that means the outer layer of the star is so much hotter than the layers below.
    The spacecraft came within 47 million miles of the sun’s surface and passed between the orbits of Venus and Mercury.


    Pretty cool stuff!
    Good info. It's nice to see a post that sticks with the spirit of this thread.
    NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING

  7. #257
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
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    Re: Any stargazers out there...?

    Yeah it got pretty heated..I had a facebook war with a Flat Earther...He was convinced the Sun was only a few hundred thousand miles away and was only as big as the moon..He reasoning was that as you move away from something it gets smaller and dimmer. His example was a satellite picture of our sun (the yellow orange one we can look at) and he held it over his head and walked away..After a short distance you could no longer see it, so he surmised that the stars in the sky could not be light years away...I tried to tell him that he was in fact correct, brightness drops by 1/R2, but no matter how many times you cut the distance in 1/2 you can never make it 0, and the light coming from his reflected picture of the sun was not quite as bright as the light coming from a distant sun. He said my science was flawed. E

  8. #258
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts theengel's Avatar
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    Re: Any stargazers out there...?

    flat earth-- ha ha-- did you guys see this?
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/scien...e-hughes-dead/

    I'm kind of surprised that they were surprised by this. I mean, we've known about the solar flares, and we've known that some are bigger than others. Why wouldn't there almost be an assumption that there are lots of others that are so small that we can't see them?

  9. #259
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts 20 year tech's Avatar
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    Re: Any stargazers out there...?

    NASA's Osiris touches an asteroid. amazing accomplishment.

    404 | NASA

  10. #260
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts
    Any stargazers out there...?

    copiertec's Avatar
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    Re: Any stargazers out there...?


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