Any stargazers out there...?

[theengel]

Just because something follows the patterns of waves doesn't mean it is a wave. It is still a particle. By observing it, you add light, and light changes its behavior--because light is a wave.

I hear about this experiment all the time spouted by those who want us to stand in awe of quantum mechanics, and I think people over-complicate this.

Think of dropping a bunch of Styrofoam balls into the water. They all spread out--the center containing more than the edges. Now, create a constant wave in the water. The little balls will line up as if they are part of the wave. But they are not waves. They are being effected by the waves.

[copier addict]

I really have a hard time saying this, but I agree with Neo on this..Electrons are both particles and waves as demonstrated in the dual slit experiment decades ago. When you start talking about things working a the quantum level anything can happen..We know that "particles" are streaming when you fire an electron gun at a CRT, but the interferance pattern generated in the dual slit experiment would indicate they also act as waves..E

I read this, didn't understand everything, but it looks like the type of experiment caused the particles to act as waves. It is almost like some scientist said "I think atoms are waves and particles" and devised an experiment that would create the desired effect.

[NeoMatrix]

u

Just because something follows the patterns of waves doesn't mean it is a wave. It is still a particle. By observing it, you add light, and light changes its behavior--because light is a wave.

I hear about this experiment all the time spouted by those who want us to stand in awe of quantum mechanics, and I think people over-complicate this.

Think of dropping a bunch of Styrofoam balls into the water. They all spread out--the center containing more than the edges. Now, create a constant wave in the water. The little balls will line up as if they are part of the wave. But they are not waves. They are being effected by the waves.

Another point of view:
Assuming you are correct and the electron is a particle,
the flow of electrons ( physical matter) from one material to another
material would cause a loss in the first material.

To test the matter-particle electron theory:
Take a large electrical generator. Place it inside an air tight container with an accurate pressure gauge to measure the pressure inside the container. Remember no air can get in or out of the air tight container. ( Assume the generator runs on bank of batteries.)

Start the electrical generater going. Place a heavy electrical load on the output of the generator causing a heavy current to flow outside the container. If the electron was a particle, then particles should be leaving the air tight container with the heavy current coming outside the container. Over time we should see a drop in pressure inside the air tight container as particles/electrons are removed from inside the container.

Dispite a heavy flow of current from the generator the pressure inside the container remains the same. Any particles leaving the container would have caused a measureable drop in pressure inside the container.
It should be suffice that the electron cannot be a particle.

The truth is that the generator causes waves(aka electrons) to form inside the magnets of the generator.The generator magnet deforms space to create a pressure wave we call the electron.

[slimslob]

Another point of view:
Assuming you are correct and the electron is a particle,
the flow of electrons ( physical matter) from one material to another
material would cause a loss in the first material.

To test the matter-particle electron theory:
Take a large electrical generator. Place it inside an air tight container with an accurate pressure gauge to measure the pressure inside the container. Remember no air can get in or out of the air tight container. ( Assume the generator runs on bank of batteries.)

Start the electrical generater going. Place a heavy electrical load on the output of the generator causing a heavy current to flow outside the container. If the electron was a particle, then particles should be leaving the air tight container with the heavy current coming outside the container. Over time we should see a drop in pressure inside the air tight container as particles/electrons are remvoed from inside the container.

Dispite a heavy flow of current from the generator the pressure inside the generator remains the same. Any particles leaving the container would have caused a measureable drop in pressure inside the container.
It should be suffice that the electron cannot be a particle.

The truth is that the generator causes waves(aka electrons) to form inside the magnets of the generator.The generator magnet deforms space to create a pressure wave we call the electron.

Bad comparison. Remember, there are two connections the a generator. Electrons are pushed out one connector but an equal number of electrons are pulled back in the other. Net zero gain/loss.

[NeoMatrix]

Bad comparison. Remember, there are two connections the a generator. Electrons are pushed out one connector but an equal number of electrons are pulled back in the other. Net zero gain/loss.

The Electron as a Wave:
Vacuum tube television with magnetic deguassing circuits create an interesting phenomenon.

The electron as a wave can have a varible wave form which causes various phenomenon.
Example:
If you set up an interference pattern by using short wave radio signals you can interfere with the electron sweep of a vacuum television and cause the image on the screen to invert.

If you vary the RF with even short wave lengths you can cause the white areas of the image to turn black, and the black areas of the image to turn white. Only by changing the electron wave pattern with another RF wave could you do this.
The electron as a particle cannot change its fixed particle attributes to invert black to white on the image.

I have some other examples:
If I drag out my old study notes there are examples that explain the gyration of gamma rays around the nuclear of atoms to cause excess electron/waves to form. Far greater electrons form than are in the atom itself.

All of my info is from a long time ago. I'm surprised I still recall half of it. Take it or leave it warts and all...

[NeoMatrix]

If people accept that the electron is a wave form and that magnetic fields create those wave forms by deforming space, then it would be congruently applicable that a large celestial body in space, exposed to a magnetic field , would also generate atomic waves (aka electrons) by deforming space around itself.

[copier addict]

If people accept that the electron is a wave form and that magnetic fields create those wave forms by deforming space, then it would be congruently applicable that a large celestial body in space, exposed to a magnetic field , would also generate atomic waves (aka electrons) by deforming space around itself.

People accepting things certainly does not make them fact. It wasn't too long ago that the ACCEPTED view was the earth was the centre of the solar system.
It was once ACCEPTED that the earth was flat. And so on.
I'm not disputing anything, just pointing out that not every theory put forward is golden

[emujo2]

Back when the beliefs were that the earth was flat, the sun revolved around us, and what we could see with our eyes was the extent of the universe, the accepted theories came form a book and to not believe in this book could mean death..Today we use science to figure out what is going on around us, and even if they are getting some things wrong, at least it's not because some guy in a robe deems it so. As telescopes, and other means of collecting data get more and more precise, the current theories will evolve, but I feel the science being used today has some pretty firm foundations. E

[theengel]

Back when the beliefs were that the earth was flat, the sun revolved around us, and what we could see with our eyes was the extent of the universe, the accepted theories came form a book and to not beleive in this book could mean death..Today we use science to figure out what is going on around us, and even if they are getting some things wrong, at least it's not because some guy in a robe deems it so. As telescopes, and other means of collecting data get more and more precise, the current theories will evolve, but I feel the science being used today has some pretty firm foundations. E

Exactly what do you mean by that? Which book did people get their scientific beliefs from?

Are you talking about maybe a book written by Georges Lemaître? Or perhaps Johannes Kepler?

[emujo2]

How about the bible?