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  1. #11
    Senior Tech. 2,500+ Posts NeoMatrix's Avatar
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    Re: It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    As a senior trade professional you have to pass on your knowledge and skill set to the younger generation.
    If the Skilled or Professional did not pass on their knowledge and skill-set we would all be facing retirement by living in a tent and scraping grubs an berries from the earth as food.

    The asserted farmer or professional is a pillar in society that props up their corner of the social structure.
    If the foundation pillars of society are missing the entire social structure can/will collapse.

    It is a self help self society we live in, whether we believe that or not.
    If you're diligent you can accumulate a few escrow points(dollars) along the way.

    The new generation of younger Techs per se' are just following their hopes and dreams.
    You can't put a old head on young shoulders, lord knows many have tried.

    Only time... and courtesy... can make them wise.
    What if we could count the stars... , what number would you stop at...?"
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  2. #12
    ALIEN OVERLORD 2,500+ Posts fixthecopier's Avatar
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    Re: It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Quote Originally Posted by Bix View Post
    The problem is that often technicians are launched without any training.


    The questions are: can you use the screwdriver? Can you turn on a computer? Ok! Are you ready! Training courses are no longer made and if they are done, it is only theory with some slides on the computer.


    If one is new in this area, the manual is not easy to understand because it does not even know the parts of the printer or their operation.

    Well, you called me out. That is exactly how I started 20 years ago. I came from steel forge plant. Got a cash job assembling copiers and delivering them for our first military contract. When all 330 machines had been delivered, they ask me to stay on as a tech. Let me ride with another for about 4 days, then turned me loose, by myself for a year and a half before sending me to my first school. So far I have been able to fake it for 20 years now. If I keep up the act for 20 more I may get to die with screwdriver in hand.
    The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen Hawking

  3. #13
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts
    It seems that the ' New line of techs....'


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    Re: It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoMatrix View Post
    As a senior trade professional you have to pass on your knowledge and skill set to the younger generation.
    If the Skilled or Professional did not pass on their knowledge and skill-set we would all be facing retirement by living in a tent and scraping grubs an berries from the earth as food.

    The asserted farmer or professional is a pillar in society that props up their corner of the social structure.
    If the foundation pillars of society are missing the entire social structure can/will collapse.

    It is a self help self society we live in, whether we believe that or not.
    If you're diligent you can accumulate a few escrow points(dollars) along the way.

    The new generation of younger Techs per se' are just following their hopes and dreams.
    You can't put a old head on young shoulders, lord knows many have tried.

    Only time... and courtesy... can make them wise.
    I would love to pass my trade on to someone but don't think there are many younger IT people that would even want to learn it. Not sure you could keep them from looking at their phone long enough to teach them anything! Bringing me back to my original point, if you go to school for IT and next thing you know you are in a busy office with a copier apart and people asking "how long before we can use it" that is not what they had envisioned as their career, so they are unhappy. They pictured their career sitting at a desk all day staring at a monitor. This is why "copier technician" turnover rate is getting higher.
    And the other point I might not of been clear on in my prior post is the OEM's are designing the machines to be serviced less & easier to repair for these IT people. Just a theory...

  4. #14
    Service Manager 5,000+ Posts
    It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Phil B.'s Avatar
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    Re: It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoMatrix View Post
    As a senior trade professional you have to pass on your knowledge and skill set to the younger generation.
    If the Skilled or Professional did not pass on their knowledge and skill-set we would all be facing retirement by living in a tent and scraping grubs an berries from the earth as food.
    The asserted farmer or professional is a pillar in society that props up their corner of the social structure.
    If the foundation pillars of society are missing the entire social structure can/will collapse.
    It is a self help self society we live in, whether we believe that or not.
    If you're diligent you can accumulate a few escrow points(dollars) along the way.
    The new generation of younger Techs per se' are just following their hopes and dreams.
    You can't put a old head on young shoulders, lord knows many have tried.
    Only time... and courtesy... can make them wise.
    I have trained MANY newbies over my 31+ years in Copy/print/fax ... and before that I gave free classes on assembly/loading/operation of PC.... Also Trained cooks in various types of restaurants... and now a sideline of guns/prepping/gardens/chickens.
    my skills @ training aren't the issue.. most yung snots think because " I'm OLD " they don't care to even listen... and when you question "Why did you do that"? the get offensive and really shut down. I can deal with not KNOWING and willing to listen... but refuse to coddle people just because they are young... my mentors and my dad didn't.. I won't.

  5. #15
    Service Manager 5,000+ Posts
    It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Phil B.'s Avatar
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    Re: It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Quote Originally Posted by fixthecopier View Post
    Well, you called me out. That is exactly how I started 20 years ago. I came from steel forge plant. Got a cash job assembling copiers and delivering them for our first military contract. When all 330 machines had been delivered, they ask me to stay on as a tech. Let me ride with another for about 4 days, then turned me loose, by myself for a year and a half before sending me to my first school. So far I have been able to fake it for 20 years now. If I keep up the act for 20 more I may get to die with screwdriver in hand.
    HA... I BET because of your past work... your 'faking' it, wasn't a 20yr stint. I would rather train a GREENLING with some mechanical skills... than a "keyboard puncher" .

    The MAIN thing I have Always looked for is the Attitude to desire to learn... now matter the field.

  6. #16
    Service Manager 5,000+ Posts
    It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Phil B.'s Avatar
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    Re: It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Quote Originally Posted by copyman View Post
    I would love to pass my trade on to someone but don't think there are many younger IT people that would even want to learn it. Not sure you could keep them from looking at their phone long enough to teach them anything! Bringing me back to my original point, if you go to school for IT and next thing you know you are in a busy office with a copier apart and people asking "how long before we can use it" that is not what they had envisioned as their career, so they are unhappy. They pictured their career sitting at a desk all day staring at a monitor. This is why "copier technician" turnover rate is getting higher.
    And the other point I might not of been clear on in my prior post is the OEM's are designing the machines to be serviced less & easier to repair for these IT people. Just a theory...
    Spot on.... those phones can be a great help ( when used properly ) but as we ALL see in society today... they can be more of a hindrance than help if there is no Moderation in use.
    re: IT tech aspirations ..yes they all want to be the HEAD of the IT dept..so they can sit at their desk...play on Instagram..Call of Duty .. or Twitter.

  7. #17
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    blackcat4866's Avatar
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    Re: It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    I am very happy to have a few youngsters willing to do the work, willing to do their own manual reading, willing to download and read what's needed, willing to try something logical ... and something seemingly illogical. It's quite satisfying to get a question like: "I'm reading the section about adjusting image registration but I still don't understand ... ". I've worked with techs with 20+ years of experience that will never get to this stage. =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  8. #18
    Senior Tech. 2,500+ Posts NeoMatrix's Avatar
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    Re: It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil B. View Post
    I have trained MANY newbies over my 31+ years in Copy/print/fax ... and before that I gave free classes on assembly/loading/operation of PC.... Also Trained cooks in various types of restaurants... and now a sideline of guns/prepping/gardens/chickens.
    my skills @ training aren't the issue.. most yung snots think because " I'm OLD " they don't care to even listen... and when you question "Why did you do that"? the get offensive and really shut down. I can deal with not KNOWING and willing to listen... but refuse to coddle people just because they are young... my mentors and my dad didn't.. I won't.
    Re. Teaching young gen.

    A positive teacher can coax/push a student outside their comfort zone.
    It is the stress on the learned brain that forces/develops new neural pathways into the memory to create knowledge links. The student doesn't like the stress caused from the unknown subject or "knowledge void" in their memory. The knowledge void itself causes the peer pressure stress by not knowing the subject material, which they cannot find in their memory cortex.

    Knowledge void stress causes many people to react in various ways, arrogance, fight ,flight or patronizing scenarios. Worse case "knowledge void stress" can cause the mind to race sending some people into panic attacks. Most Tech's would suffer from mild KV stress while fixing an unknown machine fault. The fact of trying to find information in your mind to help fix the machine fault causes us stress. Add in customer ,boss and daily schedule expectations on top of the machine fault, and you have a stressed out Tech.

    A positive teacher can readily identify with each student how well they are coping with the given subject.
    In any learning environment, the written word should not go past a fifth grade level of comprehension, which means keeping words to 3 symbols or less. The maximum concentration of the learning-mind should be limited to 40-45min intervals with 10-15 min of rest doing something else.

    The student should "question everything", including the teachers own subject facts and knowledge base.
    If the teacher doesn't like the student testing their abilities, then the teacher should find another career.
    Last edited by NeoMatrix; 11-23-2018 at 11:19 PM.
    What if we could count the stars... , what number would you stop at...?"
    [Exchange manual acquisitions, PM's CTN members only. ]
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  9. #19
    ALIEN OVERLORD 2,500+ Posts fixthecopier's Avatar
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    Re: It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil B. View Post
    HA... I BET because of your past work... your 'faking' it, wasn't a 20yr stint. I would rather train a GREENLING with some mechanical skills... than a "keyboard puncher" .

    The MAIN thing I have Always looked for is the Attitude to desire to learn... now matter the field.

    You got me, I really love what I do. I think like anything, you have to start with the basics. Understand HOW and WHY it works before you can fix it. When I lived in Cameron, a lot of my friends were real motorheads. As Daryll would tell me in regards to auto repair, "If I have gas, spark and compression, the damn thing should run! If it doesn't, I start with that knowledge and figure out why." He had a 55 Chevy and his brother Don had a 57. They had one good hopped up motor and would pull the motor and trans from one to the other, drive it for a couple of days then swap it back, just for fun. You gotta love what you do.
    The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen Hawking

  10. #20
    Service Manager 5,000+ Posts
    It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Phil B.'s Avatar
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    Re: It seems that the ' New line of techs....'

    Quote Originally Posted by fixthecopier View Post
    You gotta love what you do.
    as I do.. or I wouldn't have stuck with it for so long... I have several buds from Cameron nice area.. not far from me

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