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  1. #21
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    Re: canon hard drives

    Not a Canon tech, but in KM world if lock or encryption password is lost the HDD can be formatted, this will remove the lock/encryption password and any data on the drive. TPM is no enabled by default. I'm not sure if a HDD with KM encryption and lock password can be erased outside of the machine. E

  2. #22
    Retired 10,000+ Posts slimslob's Avatar
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    Re: canon hard drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    First:
    you should understand that encryption of data on a harddrive have nothing to do to get access to the harddrive.

    The TPM hold only the keys for different security functions. TPM donīt do any encryption of data.

    Second:
    If a HDD have a security passwort, then a computer ask for it during boot. But this have still nothing to do with TPM or encryption.

    Under Linux try at commandline:

    "Even if you freeze or lock your drive by running the above command from a Lenovo laptop with a blank password, it is still possible to unfreeze and unlock it. First, plug the drive into a different computer. Second, perform a power cycle of the drive while you are booted into a drive utility (like Gparted). Third, issue the following command which should disable the security on the drive.

    sudo hdparm --security-disable PWD
    "

    you can also try HIRENīs boot CD

    Old Versions | Hiren's BootCD PE

    and use : HDD Erase 4.0: Secure erase using a special feature built into most newer hard drives (Dos Freeware).
    All of these software that you keep giving links to, how many, if any, have you personally used to prepare a TPM protected drive removed from a Canon MFP for use as a spare drive. Until you have done so and can post step by step instruction as to how you were able to do so STFU.

  3. #23
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    Re: canon hard drives

    To reinstate. I am thinking it is TPM causing the issue, not 100% sure though. Trainer last year said it was TPM when I asked.

    I stick a canon hdd into a blank dell laptop, laptop goes through splash screen, asks for hdd password.

    I have tried hddllf 4.4
    Gparted
    hddscan
    command prompt as admin
    linux boot disk
    windows recovery disk
    mmc

    What I am thinking is this. I can take a laptop hdd that is password protected, use any of the above and reuse it. I can not say that I've tried to reuse a laptop hdd that uses TPM and bitlocker. There is hdd encryption on Ricohs. I have reused those just fine. I don't know what it is about Canon hdd's. When I try anything in Windows with those, it's like it doesn't exist, it won't read/write. In the past people have given me flash drives that they pulled during a read/write activity that were damaged and no longer work. You plug those into windows, it sees the flashdrive and when you go to properties it says no media present. Same thing happens with Canon hdd's. Windows sees the hdd in mmc, but it shows no media present.

    I think Slim is right, maybe someone has figured out the process and needs to tell us how.

    I haven't had a chance to really try the linux command line suggestions. I will try to get to that and report back.
    The difference between Democrats and Republicans is.......

    One party tells lies

    and

    the other party doesn't tell the truth.

  4. #24
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    canon hard drives

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    Re: canon hard drives

    @slimslob:
    It seems to me that no matter what I write, you make everything worse, but I've repeated myself often enough now,
    but you don't seem to understand it or you don't want to.

    So read this carefully!

    This is from CANON documents:

    Trusted Platform Module (TPM)

    Every imageRUNNER ADVANCE system includes a Trusted Platform Module (TPM), a tamper-resistant open standards security chip that is responsible for encrypting and decrypting information such as
    passwords, certificates, IDs and cryptographic keys. TPM protects information on the internal hard disk drive by storing the encryption key in a separate location. Once enabled, the device will not launch if the
    TPM chip is removed to protect against physical attacks.
    TPM functionality is disabled by default. The feature can be enabled on Canon imageRUNNER ADVANCE devices within the Additional Functions menu. Once enabled, it is important to back up
    the TPM key in the event of failure through USB memory.


    HDD Password Lock

    The imageRUNNER ADVANCE Series offer a feature called HDD Lock. HDD Lock provides the capability of securing the HDD with a Password making it difficult to access the data that is stored on the
    hard disk to be accessed. If the HDD is physically removed from the device, its data cannot be accessed via a PC.

    YOU can read that TMP encryption have nothing to do with the HDD LOCK, this i already wrote several times.

    Canon also write: .... of securing the HDD with a Password making it difficult to access.....
    but the never wrote IMPOSSIBLE

    so this must show almost you that encryption and the HDD password have nothing to do with each other.

    If a hard disc ask for password during boot, it have really nothing to do with TPM! The bios from a computer see during boot that a password is set on the drive and ask for it. This feature was used earlier for antitheft protection when there was no TPM was aviable.


    @tonerhead:
    here you can find a detailed information how you can find out which ATA features are set from your drive and how you can enable or disable.

    Understanding ATA Security >> ADMIN Magazine


    so everything is said often enough, i am out.

    good luck.
    My profile is not working at the moment. The profile you see is not mine. Board redirects to a wrong userprofile. So you CANīT REACH ME over the profile via SEND PRIVATE MESSAGE and even not over regular Email too

    You only can contact me if you click my name on a post and select PRIVATE MESSAGE straight from there.

  5. #25
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    Re: canon hard drives

    So far hdparm command failed permission denied. Badblocks also failed.
    The difference between Democrats and Republicans is.......

    One party tells lies

    and

    the other party doesn't tell the truth.

  6. #26
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    Re: canon hard drives

    Tried utilities on Hiren's CD boot disk .15.2 Tried secure disk erase, no good, tried other wipe/erasing options on the disk, no good.

    I am open to anyone else trying to crack these hdd's. If the instructor said these are soda coasters outside of the copier, I am really thinking he is right. TPM marries them to the machine as far as I know.

    I am still relatively new to Canon's (15 months). However, I am guessing if you could "reuse" these like you can with Ricohs, the James Bonds' of the world might be able to glean some info. Hence TPM marries it to the machine with (I'm guessing) a random password. Probably all done in the background with the copier firmware and the hdd firmware.

    I know the very old (6 years or more) Canon hdd's I can erase and reuse, not anything current though.

    If anyone can do it, post, I'd like to put this thread to bed.
    The difference between Democrats and Republicans is.......

    One party tells lies

    and

    the other party doesn't tell the truth.

  7. #27
    Retired 10,000+ Posts slimslob's Avatar
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    Re: canon hard drives

    Quote Originally Posted by tonerhead View Post
    Tried utilities on Hiren's CD boot disk .15.2 Tried secure disk erase, no good, tried other wipe/erasing options on the disk, no good.

    I am open to anyone else trying to crack these hdd's. If the instructor said these are soda coasters outside of the copier, I am really thinking he is right. TPM marries them to the machine as far as I know.

    I am still relatively new to Canon's (15 months). However, I am guessing if you could "reuse" these like you can with Ricohs, the James Bonds' of the world might be able to glean some info. Hence TPM marries it to the machine with (I'm guessing) a random password. Probably all done in the background with the copier firmware and the hdd firmware.

    I know the very old (6 years or more) Canon hdd's I can erase and reuse, not anything current though.

    If anyone can do it, post, I'd like to put this thread to bed.
    On a Ricoh encryption is at the individual file level and restrict access to the file only. Security of data that might remain on a drive after a copy or print job completes is handled Disk Overwrite Security System. It over writes all sectors used by the job. Prior to the introduction of DOSS, Ricoh recommended removing the HDD and handing it to the customer if they were worried data remaining on the drive.

  8. #28
    Senior Tech 100+ Posts
    canon hard drives

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    Re: canon hard drives

    Quote Originally Posted by tonerhead View Post
    So far hdparm command failed permission denied. Badblocks also failed.
    did you use hdparm as root? you need root privilegs for all this stuff...
    My profile is not working at the moment. The profile you see is not mine. Board redirects to a wrong userprofile. So you CANīT REACH ME over the profile via SEND PRIVATE MESSAGE and even not over regular Email too

    You only can contact me if you click my name on a post and select PRIVATE MESSAGE straight from there.

  9. #29
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    Re: canon hard drives

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    did you use hdparm as root? you need root privilegs for all this stuff...

    Yes. When using hdparm --sanitize-block-erase, hdparm comes back with Sanitize feature is not supported. When using hdparm-w (perform device reset), hdparm comes back with
    HDIO_DRIVE_RESET failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device.

    Like I have been saying, something in the hdd itself is keeping it from a read/write without password. The hdd in a empty dell laptop does this..... I can tell the dell to boot from cd in bios. It pauses for a period during boot then asks for hdd password, 3 times, then will boot from cd.
    The difference between Democrats and Republicans is.......

    One party tells lies

    and

    the other party doesn't tell the truth.

  10. #30
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    Re: canon hard drives

    in using hdparm -I /dev/sda I found Security level maximum.

    In reading more about hdparm and hdd's I found this. So like the instructor said these hdd's are soda coasters.

    In Maximum security mode, you cannot unlock the disk! The only way to get the disk back to a usable state is to issue the SECURITY ERASE PREPARE command, immediately followed by SECURITY ERASE UNIT. The SECURITY ERASE UNIT command requires the Master password and will completely erase all data on the disk. The operation is rather slow, expect half an hour or more for big disks. (Word 89 in the IDENTIFY response indicates how long the operation will take.)


    In checking more, the hdd is a Seagate. Master password for Seagate is "Seagate " (Seagate with 25 spaces)

    Hdparm -I shows master password has been changed.

    Without the password (random I am assuming) nothing will work.

    The needed password is not on the actual hard drive disk, but is embedded into the circuitry of the disk. I believe this is one of the provisions of TPM. That is why we can not crack it.
    Last edited by tonerhead; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:23 PM.
    The difference between Democrats and Republicans is.......

    One party tells lies

    and

    the other party doesn't tell the truth.

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