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Thread: Bad Paper?

  1. #1
    ALIEN OVERLORD 2,500+ Posts fixthecopier's Avatar
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    Bad Paper?

    I am pretty sure that over the years I have been doing this, I have only blamed the paper for the machine 's problem a handful of times. I always believed that too many techs use paper as an excuse, when the machine could have been fixed. I have had customers tell me that another tech told them it was the paper, and I would smile and tell them to watch me fix it, because I am a real tech. If the paper is bad, you should be able to see it and prove it.

    On Ft. Bragg, they are required to use recycled paper. The law requires government to use recycled, even though it cost a lot more. My state is VERY humid. Usually when I am showing the customer how to identify bad paper that is too humid, I can point to the ends curling up after going through the fuser, and the finished product looking like laundry that has not been ironed. The big thick separator fingers that Konica now uses, have been great, and rarely fail.

    THE ISSUE...

    Over the past couple of months, 2 of my Bizhub 600's have turned into a pain in my ass. The first one is my most used machine and has about 3 million on it. It sits in what was an old motel room about 6 feet from the door that seems to be open all day long. I fought it and changed stuff and made adjustments until it quit. I assume it quit, I had a second machine moved out there to take off some of the load, it may be dead and they just haven't called, but when last I was there, it ran.

    Problem child #2 has been having this issue for about the same amount of time. I would get the call for it being jammed, find one in the cleaning section, remove it and it would run fine for a while. This machine is in a modern building, at the end of a hall, about 50 feet from a door that is open most of the time. On this machine, the total meter is 750,000. The transfer sep unit only has 3000 on it. The drum sep fingers were traded with a working machine. I have jacked up the manual voltage adjustment to the max.

    While I was there on Tuesday , I just had a gut feeling it was paper. Opening fresh paper of theirs did no good. It would not pass 3 sheets without trying to eat one. I went to the shop and got a ream of our paper, Members Mark from Sam's Club, went back and ran 25 copies. I put their paper in and it sucked one up. I cleared it and put mine back in, ran 50 copies. Put their paper back in and it jammed. Traded it out again and it ran with my paper.

    Now here is part of the problem. Why is this underused machine doing this? The paper shows none of the usual signs of being crappy. It comes out of the machine crisp and flat, no curled corners. Do any of you folks have a magical set of numbers to set your voltages too on a Bizhub 600 to run shitty paper, because tech support was no help. I still don't think it is all in the paper because I have dealt with much worse.
    The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen Hawking

  2. #2
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    Bad Paper?

    blackcat4866's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Paper?

    The following study was done in 1927, long before the appearance of electro-static photocopying, but is still pertinent.

    It's an interesting read.

    From a practical aspect, the only thing I know to do is to microwave a small batch of paper. Most offices have a microwave somewhere big enough for letter size paper. The time will depend on how much paper you're nuking. Trial and error. I wouldn't try for a whole ream. The most I'd go for is 50-100 pages at a time. Yes, it sound impractical, but it's all I've got. =^..^=
    Attached Files Attached Files
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  3. #3
    ALIEN OVERLORD 2,500+ Posts fixthecopier's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Paper?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackcat4866 View Post
    The following study was done in 1927, long before the appearance of electro-static photocopying, but is still pertinent.

    It's an interesting read.

    From a practical aspect, the only thing I know to do is to microwave a small batch of paper. Most offices have a microwave somewhere big enough for letter size paper. The time will depend on how much paper you're nuking. Trial and error. I wouldn't try for a whole ream. The most I'd go for is 50-100 pages at a time. Yes, it sound impractical, but it's all I've got. =^..^=

    Thanks for the data, that is just the kind of geeky stuff I like. I had a guy in Psy-Ops tell me he made a paper incubator in the jungle by installing a 40 watt bulb in a metal supply cabinet.

    I am thinking I have missed something. I have 3 more of same machine in this building, using same paper, with a lot more copies on them, and have no issues.
    The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen Hawking

  4. #4
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    Bad Paper?

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    Re: Bad Paper?

    I like the light bulb thing.

    I'd take a metal cabinet of some sort as a base. Then drill a bunch of 1/8" holes within a 1/2 round shape. Then I'd mount a half round shutter that can be rotated to cover all to none of the holes, as desired, to regulate air flow. I'd do the same thing on the bottom of the cabinet. Then I'd mount two 40 watt bulbs in the bottom portion of the cabinet on a dimmer. In that way you can install larger or smaller bulbs, turn up or down the heat source, and regulate the airflow with the shutters.

    Sort of a metal version of the fruit dehydrator in my kitchen.

    I made a hat dryer on the same principles, just conical at the top to fit the inner band of my hat. A 15 watt bulb dries the hat overnight, and warms it to ~140F. It's a nice way to start out a cold wet morning.

    The 40 watt bulb was a bit too much. No flames, but the hat was ruined. =^..^=

    hat warmer2 redused.jpghat warmer1 reduced.jpg
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  5. #5
    AutoMajical Resolutionist 2,500+ Posts
    Bad Paper?

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    Re: Bad Paper?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackcat4866 View Post
    I like the light bulb thing.

    I'd take a metal cabinet of some sort as a base. Then drill a bunch of 1/8" holes within a 1/2 round shape. Then I'd mount a half round shutter that can be rotated to cover all to none of the holes, as desired, to regulate air flow. I'd do the same thing on the bottom of the cabinet. Then I'd mount two 40 watt bulbs in the bottom portion of the cabinet on a dimmer. In that way you can install larger or smaller bulbs, turn up or down the heat source, and regulate the airflow with the shutters.

    Sort of a metal version of the fruit dehydrator in my kitchen.

    I made a hat dryer on the same principles, just conical at the top to fit the inner band of my hat. A 15 watt bulb dries the hat overnight, and warms it to ~140F. It's a nice way to start out a cold wet morning.

    The 40 watt bulb was a bit too much. No flames, but the hat was ruined. =^..^=

    hat warmer2 redused.jpghat warmer1 reduced.jpg
    Very creative BC! Now if your already wiring in AC, how about adding a humidastat , a step down transformer ( to power the humidastat and relay) and a relay ( to control the lamps) so you can regulate the humidity in the paper. If you dry it out too much you know you will have a static problem.
    Mystic Crystal Revelations

  6. #6
    Master Of The Obvious 10,000+ Posts
    Bad Paper?

    blackcat4866's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Paper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonerbomb View Post
    Very creative BC! Now if your already wiring in AC, how about adding a humidistat , a step down transformer ( to power the humidistat and relay) and a relay ( to control the lamps) so you can regulate the humidity in the paper. If you dry it out too much you know you will have a static problem.
    Sounds great. ~35% humidity inside the cabinet would be perfect to achieve 3.0% in the paper. =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

  7. #7
    ALIEN OVERLORD 2,500+ Posts fixthecopier's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Paper?

    If I go back tomorrow and determine that my paper runs better than theirs, and there is nothing else I can do to the machine, and I know there is no way to get the customer to dry out the paper, I have a solution for the short term. I will trade out my reams for the ones they would put in that machine. The law says that they have to buy recycled, but it does not say the copy guy can't swap it out after they buy it. At least until I can think of something else.
    The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen Hawking

  8. #8
    Service Manager 1,000+ Posts
    Bad Paper?


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    Did you really throw the other tech under the bus in front of the costumer ?

    cringe

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    Not a service manager 2,500+ Posts Iowatech's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Paper?

    If you've already tried this, sorry about that.
    Still, paper can sometimes be run more effectively if you switch it from LEF to SEF. And, while I haven't seen this for a while, sometimes if you load the paper with the seam in the ream wrapper up it works better, too.
    Kind of depends on the grain of the paper and the observed curl after it comes out of the fuser.
    As far as the paper drying cabinets are concerned, if you want to do that get a dead fridge and put a hundred watt bulb in it. You can also keep arc welding rods dry in that.

  10. #10
    ALIEN OVERLORD 2,500+ Posts fixthecopier's Avatar
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    Re: Bad Paper?

    Quote Originally Posted by JR2ALTA View Post
    Did you really throw the other tech under the bus in front of the costumer ?

    cringe

    If you are referring to my comment about them throwing off on paper, then YES I DID. Anytime a customer tells me that, it should be followed by "And then he proved it." 9 time out of 10, that excuse is used by a tech who needs more experience.
    The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen Hawking

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