MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

[sandmanmac]

Hey all....Just looking for any insight you might have on this seemingly strange issue.
I won't bother you with all the details leading to me finally finding out that they had apparently force removed the black toner cartridge, because it was stuck, and the entire gear mechanism popped of the cartridge and remained inside the machine.

They were able to twist it around and get it out, but then the machine had an SC681-08.

By the time I arrived, they had just left the machine without a cartridge installed.

I started to install the cartridge that they said caused an SC681.
It got stuck going in. I thought that the exit tray seemed to be slightly out of position, so I removed it, and the cartridge went right in, machine came to ready, and all seemed good.

(In hindsight, I don't think that the exit tray was in fact dislodged or causing any sort of obstruction, and I don't know how it actually could).

I made a few copies, and printed out a few test pages, etc, and I was about ready to walk out the door when it flashed up another sc681.

I rebooted, and then it displayed that the k-toner was not set correctly. I tried to pull it out and it got stuck about half way again.

I got it realigned and reseated and it worked again, and ran a lot of copies, over several runs, and it never displayed an SC code again; However, after it would load toner, the bottle almost always would get stuck when removing, and when I would reinstall it, it started showing that the C & M toner were not installed correctly.

I cleaned the chips on the bottles and all good the first time, but a couple of times I could not get the machine to acknowledge the cartridges until I rebooted. This seemed to happen every time I removed the k-toner and reinstalled .

It was closing time at that office, so I left the machine, and it seems to be working fine for now - at least until there is a need to remove/ replace any of the toner bottles.

So I guess my questions are:
1 - Any ideas how or why the K-bottle seems to get "off track"? Nothing appears damaged either on the toner tray itself or the bottle

2 - What would cause the cyan/ magenta cartridges to be unrecognized just because the K- bottle has been removed and replaced?


As always, I'm very appreciative for any advice!

EDIT: Machine only has 79K total on meter

[slimslob]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

Maybe this might help. RD147103.pdf

[sandmanmac]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

Thanks Tim!
I did see a couple of threads referring to those springs, but I'd not found the actual bulletin, nor did I understand exactly which spring it referred to, so it's handy to have!
(Looks like a miserable job too!)

This machine, however is a 2015 build, so I'm thinking that it's not the cause, and the bottle doesn't seem to come loose on it's own.
Everything was seemingly fine until they went to change the cartridge, and it was out of 'position' and got stuck.

[slimslob]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

I can't remember if they are interchangeable or not but could they possibly be using C6003 toner and not C3503 toner?

[sandmanmac]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

I can't remember if they are interchangeable or not but could they possibly be using C6003 toner and not C3503 toner?

I think you can use C3503 in place of c6003, but not the other way around.
In any case, they are definitely using (genuine) C3503

[Gift]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

Did you try another toner bottle? Perhaps the new bottle came from a monday made production

Qick and dirty fix might have been to swap the black part from the old cartridge + keep the new chip.

[sandmanmac]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

Did you try another toner bottle? Perhaps the new bottle came from a monday made production

Qick and dirty fix might have been to swap the black part from the old cartridge + keep the new chip.

Thanks.
No. I didn't have an additional one with me, but since both the nearly empty cartridge, and the replacement seem to have the same issue, I sort of ruled out a cartridge problem

I do intend to go back and have another go at it next week and will take one with me just in case. I'm just hoping to come up with some ideas in the meantime.

Hopefully it continues to run in it's current state without issue until I can find the time, because of course, it's also one of the most distant customers I have

[mikadonovan]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

(Looks like a miserable job too!)

It is involved.If you do this, be very careful not do drop the tiny springs into the cavity. The yellow is nearly impossible to reach, but I got them in without issue. 1.5 hour. This mod just holds the bottle chip tighter against the terminals, and keeps them from popping out and slamming against the inside of the front door. When I first heard of the bottle popping issue, I thought "no way". Way.

[sandmanmac]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

It is involved.I you do this, be very careful not do drop the tiny springs into the cavity. The yellow is nearly impossible to reach, but I got them in without issue. 1.5 hour. This mod just holds the bottle chip tighter against the terminals, and keeps them from popping out and slamming against the inside of the front door. When I first heard of the bottle popping issue, I thought "no way". Way.

Oh my. Yep, That's FUGLY! - And about how I pictured it.
( I can't hit the "Like" button because there is nothing I see there that I "like" )
There also isn't anywhere in the office with that kind of space to work, if I had to do it.

Again, it's a 2015 build so I'm kind of ruling that out, and it doesn't seem to explain the issue with the other toner cartridges all of a sudden not being recognized when the black is reseated - although, this may have been an unknown pre-existing condition for some time, as they do very little in colour, and have not needed to replace a colour cartridge since I installed the machine a year and a half ago.

[slimslob]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

Considering that the machine is over 5 years old and it is the black toner that seems to generate the problem, is it possible that the spring on the black that the bulletin says to replace could have been weakened over the years by the heat from the fusing unit?

[FrohnB]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

We have seen time and time again, where the chips on the bottles aren't set correctly, and they can cause errors like this.

Have you removed or inspected the K Toner detection chip ("ID chip" in service manual) to see if it's damaged? We've had success in reforming the bent contacts to get machines working again. Pretty easy to get to from rear. Swing controller out of the way, remove toner transport motor, toner bottle drive motor (K), and then your chip is right there.

As for the bottle getting "stuck", the Black toner cavity has an air duct (lighter gray material) that sits right above the toner bottle and directly underneath the output tray cover (dark gray material). We have seen that "duct" get warped or broken and cause issues with the Black bottle "being hard to insert or remove". Make sure that this duct isn't interfering with the bottle's movement (Picture attached for reference).

[mga]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

Maybe this might help. [ATTACH]49480[/ATTACH]

+1 good call

[sandmanmac]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

As for the bottle getting "stuck", the Black toner cavity has an air duct (lighter gray material) that sits right above the toner bottle and directly underneath the output tray cover (dark gray material). We have seen that "duct" get warped or broken and cause issues with the Black bottle "being hard to insert or remove". Make sure that this duct isn't interfering with the bottle's movement (Picture attached for reference).

THIS!!
Thank you so much for this, Frohn
I literally got the notification of your post while I was at my machine wholesaler comparing one of their machines, and noticed that duct.
In my head, I kept coming back to the exit tray, and initially thought it was possibly the wrong one or that something was missing. Guess what.....the air duct cover is missing from the machine!
Once again, I'm left a bit embarrassed by my lack of knowledge.
I did feel that it was quite odd that there was nothing between the exit tray and toner bottle, and foolishly assumed at the time that it must alone provide the support/ guide for the toner bottle. I've just not had the exit tray removed very often other than to swap it onto a machine at a wholesaler after removing a finisher or something, and never paid much attention.
Frankly, I've found these units so reliable, that I've not had to do much of anything out of the norm other than routine maintenance.

I have no idea why someone would have removed this duct in the first place- unless they removed it for another reason and forgot to reinstall it .

This would also seem to explain why there is much more toner dusting inside the machine than I would expect to see -especially at this low volume.

Anyway, as usual I had a feeling that someone would come along and shine a light for me.

Thanks all for you input!!
I'm feeling much better about the start of next week now!

[Klydon]

Re: MP C3003 - toner cartridge out of position

I think you can use C3503 in place of c6003, but not the other way around.
In any case, they are definitely using (genuine) C3503

Nice work getting it figured out.

As far as the differences in the toner bottles, the 4503 and up models use a different one. The differences are the keyway on the bottom of the black guide and the fact that the 4503+ bottles are a bit longer.

Typically when someone uses the wrong bottle, they shove it into the machine (you can force the "wrong" bottle in over the keyway on the bottom. It then doesn't work and they break the collar off trying to yank the bottle back out.

[FrohnB]