E-8508/18A problems with C471

[Rusty.Harris]

This is kind of a rant, but anyway...

If you work on these two models, the 8508A or the 8518A, you know the issues with C471 errors, belts ripping in two.
Personally, when this started about November of 2018, I said they should just go back to using the fuser in the 5540-6570.
It's a POS in these machines. Too fragile. Mod after mod...still does it. The issue, is the oil isn't enough to keep it from
drying out the wick, and once dry, you get too much friction on the fuser belt, which rips it in two.
Then, with the friction, the outer sleeve of the fuser belt holder, gets scratched in an vertical direction. Since this uses an
inductive heat, to heat the fuser, it's creating a hot spot in the areas of the vertical scratches. Then, the Brainiac that put the
thermal fuse on one end of the fuser, and the thermistors in the middle and opposite end. I've tried countless ways to combat
the problem and lowering the fuser on the 08/18's was about the best thing you could do, then TABS comes out with a bunch
of 08 changes that do what? Lower the fuser temperature on the 08/18's. Then, I talked with one of the guys and he said it
was because the temperature open point of the fuse is close to the operating temperature of the machine. Well, then make
the fuse a bit higher temperature. At one point, in early 2020, I went through 30 fuses in less than 30 days!
Now, the geniuses say that the issue isn't with the fusers that come with the machines, they are lasting their rated life, but,
after they are rebuilt. NOW they say that you shouldn't rebuilt the core/belt holder, but, replace the entire belt holder because
it is just too fragile. Ok, you made a part, for a high temperature, high productivity machine, but made it too fragile? Seriously?
And to make it even worse, if you look at the parts manual, the ONLY part of that belt holder/core that is NOT available as a
replacement part is....wait for it...the outer core shell! If you try to scrub the goop off the belt holder in servicing it, it has a
gray goop, which is funny...it's the same color as the inside of the upper fuser belt. Maybe their oil is causing the material on
the inside of the belt to deteriorate? And, the oil? Less than a thimble full of oil is included with the fuser kit. Oh, you can
order more...at 30 dollars per thimble full! (I found an alternative source, thanks anyway TABS).
I've worked on TABS machines for over 30 years, and I should know better. When I went to the first school on the 8508A series,
I said this is great! They took a 5560/70, took out the color and made it a black & white...we'll never have issues with these!
Oh...Murphy's law...STRUCK again. The only thing they really changed was the fuser, and it's the headache we've had since release!

Rant over...

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[Bicyclerepairman]

Point well made Rusty...although 5560 fuser units are not without their issues!

[Rusty.Harris]

Point well made Rusty...although 5560 fuser units are not without their issues!

Yeah, but I'd get close to a million copies out of some of them. Hell, the 8508/8518's we're lucky to get the expected life.
Before Toshiba took their old bulletin board, couple guys mentioned using a different kind of oil they were using and having
pretty good luck. Got it from a distributor in Ohio. The company sent me a free 100ml can of the stuff, so I'm doubling up
on the amount I put in the fusers and just keeping the TINY amount of oil that comes with it on the shelf.
Plus, we had a TON of these in schools and they always want the energy save turned off. So I set up a policy, that after
four hours, they go into deep sleep mode. Hopefully the oil won't all burn up and destroy the belts.

[tsbservice]

Yeah, but I'd get close to a million copies out of some of them. Hell, the 8508/8518's we're lucky to get the expected life.
Before Toshiba took their old bulletin board, couple guys mentioned using a different kind of oil they were using and having
pretty good luck. Got it from a distributor in Ohio. The company sent me a free 100ml can of the stuff, so I'm doubling up
on the amount I put in the fusers and just keeping the TINY amount of oil that comes with it on the shelf.
Plus, we had a TON of these in schools and they always want the energy save turned off. So I set up a policy, that after
four hours, they go into deep sleep mode. Hopefully the oil won't all burn up and destroy the belts.

4 hours seems a bit much. Can't you lower fuser temperature while machine is in an idle mode waiting for a jobs?

[Bicyclerepairman]

Different viscosity or temp rating?

[blackcat4866]

These settings have cured the C471's on two machines for sure:

1) New holder.
2) I tested the fuser unit exhaust fan in 03-462, 461. Tests OK in low and high speed.
3) I lowered the temperature at which the fans start/stop running: 08-2386 4>2 (to provide additional cooling).
4) I lowered the fuser temperature at the center thermistor by 5 degrees: Normal 08-2010-0 14>13, Low 08-2010-2 14>13, Decelerating 08-2010-10 12>11

=^..^=

[SalesServiceGuy]

I am not tech smart enough to comment on the technical details presented here but I sure like selling these models.

I have sold more than a few and none have come back to bite me yet. I have none in schools.

I appreciate the heads up on the rant so that I can be more proactive with my service techs.

One thing is for sure, there is no way Toshiba is going back to the older fusers.

One inside tidbit, expect new similar models one year from now.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Yeah, but I'd get close to a million copies out of some of them. Hell, the 8508/8518's we're lucky to get the expected life.
Before Toshiba took their old bulletin board, couple guys mentioned using a different kind of oil they were using and having
pretty good luck. Got it from a distributor in Ohio. The company sent me a free 100ml can of the stuff, so I'm doubling up
on the amount I put in the fusers and just keeping the TINY amount of oil that comes with it on the shelf.
Plus, we had a TON of these in schools and they always want the energy save turned off. So I set up a policy, that after
four hours, they go into deep sleep mode. Hopefully the oil won't all burn up and destroy the belts.

When you say you set up a policy on school copiers are you referring to eCloud Connect or are you making changes on the LCD panel?

To state the obvious, if the fuser is at full power, high heat all of the time, this will prematurely wear out the fuser correct?

When you say schools always want the Energy Save feature turned off it is because the teachers are pressed for time and do not want to wait for the copier to warm up during the day regardless off the extra electricity costs. Some teachers who are keeners work after hours as well.

Looking at Toshiba Tec Top View, it does not look like you can buy a spare fuser complete as a hot swap.

I see the factory spec on the fuser belt ranges from 520k to 720k on a e5518A to a e8518A.

[Rusty.Harris]

Yes, I set up the policy that the super sleep will kick in at 240 minutes via an 08 code. The most an admin can do is 60 minutes.
Most of the fusers we had rip apart, were in July/August of last year after the schools here were shut down from around March
through July/August. Sitting that long, some on, some off, the oil evaporated and the friction just ripped them up.
The changed Toshiba made to the fuser temperatures via a USB firmware update seem to have calmed down a lot of the C471
thermal fuse pop problems. Now it's mostly the oil leaking or evaporating out and destroying the belt.
It's why I'm using a different oil on the fusers, instead of that tiny thimble amount that comes with the kits. If you are familiar
with that tiny bottle of oil, the oil I'm using now, I'm doubling the amount, then marking the fusers so when they come back
in I can see how the added & different oil holds up.

When you say you set up a policy on school copiers are you referring to eCloud Connect or are you making changes on the LCD panel?

To state the obvious, if the fuser is at full power, high heat all of the time, this will prematurely wear out the fuser correct?

When you say schools always want the Energy Save feature turned off it is because the teachers are pressed for time and do not want to wait for the copier to warm up during the day regardless off the extra electricity costs. Some teachers who are keeners work after hours as well.

Looking at Toshiba Tec Top View, it does not look like you can buy a spare fuser complete as a hot swap.

I see the factory spec on the fuser belt ranges from 520k to 720k on a e5518A to a e8518A.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Yes, I set up the policy that the super sleep will kick in at 240 minutes via an 08 code. The most an admin can do is 60 minutes.
Most of the fusers we had rip apart, were in July/August of last year after the schools here were shut down from around March
through July/August. Sitting that long, some on, some off, the oil evaporated and the friction just ripped them up.
The changed Toshiba made to the fuser temperatures via a USB firmware update seem to have calmed down a lot of the C471
thermal fuse pop problems. Now it's mostly the oil leaking or evaporating out and destroying the belt.
It's why I'm using a different oil on the fusers, instead of that tiny thimble amount that comes with the kits. If you are familiar
with that tiny bottle of oil, the oil I'm using now, I'm doubling the amount, then marking the fusers so when they come back
in I can see how the added & different oil holds up.

Thanks for the detail. Does the same fuser oil problem exist for the e7516AC series?