The Price Of Freedom

[theengel]

This thread is an offshoot of another thread where we were discussing climate change.

The claim was started by yours truly, that Canadian law prohibits speech.

Starting with a quote to respond to my claim:

Allowing hatred to rule give rise to cowardly groups like the KKK and white supremacists.

Possibly. But freedom has its price. Again, you have to give the devil benefit of law. No matter who is making the laws, eventually, someone else will be in power. If you want society to always be able to do good, then you have to allow for society to do bad. THAT is the point of freedom. It's not so people can misbehave--it's so that people will always have the ability to behave.

As soon as the government has the power to tell people what they can and cannot say, you're on the road to tyranny.

[theengel]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

I think anyone with a semblance of intelligence and compassion knows what "hatred" is. To hate a person just because their skin is a different colour, or because they worship a different "God" than you is ridiculous and pointless.

In my original post, I had pointed out that someone was arrested because they were lecturing about the hateful way Islam treats women. So who is 'hating'? And who decides who is hating. If you're not going to allow hate speech, you'd have to shut down a lot of mosques.

[Copier Addict]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

In my original post, I had pointed out that someone was arrested because they were lecturing about the hateful way Islam treats women. So who is 'hating'? And who decides who is hating. If you're not going to allow hate speech, you'd have to shut down a lot of mosques.

Why single out mosques? All religious faiths are twisted by extremists. They cherry pick words and phrases to suit their own purposes. We have the KKK that uses specific bible verses to promote their own agenda, just like isis does with the quran. There is really no fundamental difference. The only real difference is scale. In my opinion the world would be a much better place without organised religion, be it catholic, protestant, jewish or muslim. They all say "My god is better than your god" when they all have the same god. Kinda silly when you think about it.

[slimslob]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

Why single out mosques? All religious faiths are twisted by extremists. They cherry pick words and phrases to suit their own purposes. We have the KKK that uses specific bible verses to promote their own agenda, just like isis does with the quran. There is really no fundamental difference. The only real difference is scale. In my opinion the world would be a much better place without organised religion, be it catholic, protestant, jewish or muslim. They all say "My god is better than your god" when they all have the same god. Kinda silly when you think about it.

Because the "extremists" in Islam are not twisting their religion. They are following the exact teachings of the Quran. You very seldom hear "moderate" Muslims condemn the terrorist attacks because they know this. For a Muslim to kill a non Muslim according the Quran is merely eradicating infidels. Also according to the Quran, for a Muslim to kill another Muslim is either purging the faith or honor killing.

[theengel]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

Why single out mosques? All religious faiths are twisted by extremists. They cherry pick words and phrases to suit their own purposes. We have the KKK that uses specific bible verses to promote their own agenda, just like isis does with the quran. There is really no fundamental difference. The only real difference is scale. In my opinion the world would be a much better place without organised religion, be it catholic, protestant, jewish or muslim. They all say "My god is better than your god" when they all have the same god. Kinda silly when you think about it.

I'm an extremist. At least I try to be. I've never thought in any way that it was ok to kill people. I guess some Christians (me being one of them) think that capital punishment is ok. But that's as far as it goes. Christian extemists (and as far as I know, Jewish extremists) don't believe in killing people. I'm pretty sure that's not part of Buddhism either. I'm not sure about Hindus. Someone who knows about it could speak up.

[Copier Addict]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

Because the "extremists" in Islam are not twisting their religion. They are following the exact teachings of the Quran. You very seldom hear "moderate" Muslims condemn the terrorist attacks because they know this. For a Muslim to kill a non Muslim according the Quran is merely eradicating infidels. Also according to the Quran, for a Muslim to kill another Muslim is either purging the faith or honor killing.

Of course they are twisting the quran. Just like the KKK twist the bible. Cherry picking any text can make it say exactly what you want it to say.
If you care to, read this with an open mind.

Anyone who says the Quran advocates terrorism obviously hasn't read its lessons on violence | The Independent

[Copier Addict]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

I'm an extremist. At least I try to be. I've never thought in any way that it was ok to kill people. I guess some Christians (me being one of them) think that capital punishment is ok. But that's as far as it goes. Christian extemists (and as far as I know, Jewish extremists) don't believe in killing people. I'm pretty sure that's not part of Buddhism either. I'm not sure about Hindus. Someone who knows about it could speak up.

Do you believe the KKK is a christian extremist group? They believe it is ok to kill jews and blacks. Just because they don't do it much anymore doesn't make them any less extreme.
Look into the Myanmar situation. It is Buddhists doing the killing there.
As I said previously, religion is the scourge of the earth.

[Copier Addict]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

In my original post, I had pointed out that someone was arrested because they were lecturing about the hateful way Islam treats women. So who is 'hating'? And who decides who is hating. If you're not going to allow hate speech, you'd have to shut down a lot of mosques.

I did some searching for this incident and was unable to find anything. Can you post a link please?

[tech28]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

If religion is a "scrooge" to you, why take interest? Just to demean what millions of people believe? That there is a creator? I would just let it go and be done with it, move along so to speak. Good luck in your walks in life.

[Copier Addict]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

If religion is a "scrooge" to you, why take interest? Just to demean what millions of people believe? That there is a creator? I would just let it go and be done with it, move along so to speak. Good luck in your walks in life.

Why would you assume I don't believe there is a creator? I said religion is bad, not what people believe. Organised religion is just a way to have power over people. You don't need someone preaching at you to have faith. So, move along and good luck to you.

[Tricky]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

As soon as the government has the power to tell people what they can and cannot say, you're on the road to tyranny.

We are on the road to tyranny already. Governments are pushing the major websites to remove hate speech. Their definition of hate speech appears to be anything that conflicts with their liberalism. A well known video streaming site had a featured video next to the sites icon a few months back and it was called "adopt a refugee" or something like that. It had millions of views and lots of dislikes because of the biased way it depicted the situation. Clicking the refresh button would reveal a hundred or so extra dislikes. The sites administrators adjusted the likes, dislikes ratio and removed the hate speech or as I see it, the kind of opinion most people would have.

[theengel]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

I did some searching for this incident and was unable to find anything. Can you post a link please?

https://medium.com/@KelemenCari/amer...d-4aa9f0f28f2b

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2017/03/07/canadas-parliament-wants-to-fight-islamophobia-by-killing-free-speech/?utm_term=.70077dd8cfeb

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-canadian-motion-to-silence-critics-of-islam-passes-house-of-common

I remember hearing several years ago that Catholic priests were no longer allowed to preach against homosexuality. I didn't pay too much attention at the time. But apparently, this now extends to islam.

The first link... that guy's talks were simply lectures concerning the way they treat women. Genital mutilation and oppression. That kind of thing.

The KKK is not a religion. It started as a left-wing political secret society. Democrats.

You will not find anything in the Bible condoning the killing off of any one race or religion.

You will find such subject matter in the quran.

[Copier Addict]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

The first link... that guy's talks were simply lectures concerning the way they treat women. Genital mutilation and oppression. That kind of thing.

The KKK is not a religion. It started as a left-wing political secret society. Democrats.

You will not find anything in the Bible condoning the killing off of any one race or religion.

You will find such subject matter in the quran.

Regardless of whether the kkk is a religion or not, they use specific cherry picked verses from the bible to put forward their agenda of hate towards specific groups of people.
The bible and torah, which are basically the same thing have many references to killing non believers.

Yes, the Bible Does Say to Kill Infidels

And, as stated earlier, possibly in a different thread, a motion is not a law. It is not enforceable.

[theengel]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

In the entire Bible, you found 2 quotes from Deuteronomy, directing the Jews on what kind of rules they should follow as they build their nation. No. The Bible does not tell us to kill infidels. The KKK didn't use bible verses to justify their actions. There are no Bible versus for that.

[theengel]

Re: The Price Of Freedom

What's more, those two versus have nothing to do with infidels... This is direction on how to conduct themselves. How to deal with those who live in that nation and don't follow the rules.

There's nothing in the Bible directing people to kill infidels.