Is it legal to change the meter count on a refurbished copier in california ?

[Guest]

Hi,
Those anybody knows if it is legal to sell a refurbished copier in California with a new nvram and meter count. There is a customer that is asking us to sell him a refurbished copier with the meter reset to ( 0 )
Thanks for your help.

[blackcat4866]

Most people on this site consider it to be unethical, but I don't know about illegal.
I can't imagine a buyer asking you to deceive him. Do you know the reasoning? =^..^=

[teebee1234]

Refurbished - no
Remanufactured - yes, but under strict conditions. The device is basically stripped to the frame and all major components are replaced as well as well as the exterior covers replaced or repainted. Physically there won't/shouldn't be a difference between a newly manufactured and a reman. The warranty is the same as new also. Most companies contract this out to a subcontractor to perform. I'm pretty sure only the original manufacture can lay claim to selling remaned devices. When I worked for Lanier, we sold them for awhile (sourced the work out to a specialty company), but I was never impressed with the results.
Here is a generic description of differences I cut and pasted from the web....
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The Lowdown on Remanufactured and Reconditioned Devices

Not only is remanufactured and/or reconditioning a strategy for keeping MFPs out of landfills, but it is also a cost-saving opportunity for cash-strapped office environments.

In most cases, manufacturers treat remanufactured products the same as a new device in terms of servicing and warranty. This is because remanufactured machines are typically completely disassembled and reassembled with new or recovered parts. Manufacturers replace items that aren’t necessarily worn but that might fail during the second life of that product. Remanufactured machines are also given a like-new cosmetic appearance. In addition, the meter on a remanufactured machine is typically reset to zero. The ideal customer for a remanufactured product is someone who is looking for value and does not need all the latest technology.

Unlike with a remanufactured machine, a used or reconditioned piece of equipment is not torn down to its raw components and then remanufactured through the factory, though it is thoroughly inspected and cleaned. It may still have scratches or dings, but is repainted and all the high-frequency-use components are replaced. Further, unlike with remanufactured machines, the meters are not set back to zero. The warranty is also typically different for a used or reconditioned machine than it is for a remanufactured machine.

[KenB]

Perfectly said, there, TeeBee!

[VEGACOPIERSUPPLIES]

Thanks Blackcat for your response... Well the customer is saying that will be a lot easier for them to keep track of the meter count. So I don't know what to do. I want to sell him the copier but I want to make sure I'm not doing anything wrong or illegal. If anybody has more information about this. Please let me know.
Thanks,

[VEGACOPIERSUPPLIES]

Thanks Teebee. I might be using the wrong term ( Refurbished ) When we work on a copier we stripped the copier to the frame and all major components are replaced as well as well as the exterior covers are repainted. And when we sell the copier we sell them with 1 year full warranty ( Labor and Parts ) or 25K copies. Whichever comes first. But we do not reset the meters. So if we sell the copier not as refurbished but as remanufactured and restet the meter. Do you think that there will be no problem ?
Thanks,

[SCREWTAPE]

I would have to say that the actual manufacture can actually remanufacture the machine and sell the machine with a 0 click.

If you replace parts,etc and sell the machine as if its remanufactured, its refurbed not remanufactured. Refurb isn't bad but resetting meters to deceive buyers as if its a new machine is unethical. Been there done that. It comes back and it will bite hard,$$$$$.

[blackcat4866]

If this is what the buyer wants, maybe there is a simple solution. Identify the actual total count on the sales paperwork, and specify that the counter is zero'ed per customer request, and have the buyer sign off.

I'm no lawyer, but there is no appearance of deception. =^..^=

[KenB]

Just a thought...What would prevent the customer from turning around and reselling the machine at a near - new cost, and pocketing the difference?

[copyaction]

Well let's see, can you change some "major components", repaint a car and set the odometer to zero?
I think not.

[SCREWTAPE]

Well let's see, can you change some "major components", repaint a car and set the odometer to zero?
I think not.

Good analogy.

[VEGACOPIERSUPPLIES]

Good replies... If this will be illegal. Why does Ricoh sell the nvrams and the copy count boxes to anybody. Just something to think about.

[teebee1234]

If I remember correctly, a prominent tag was placed near the serial tag identifying it a remanufactured. As long as the purchaser is aware and the paperwork is clear on this, I'm not sure if there would be a problem. But being that you're in California, they regulate everything that can create more bureaucracy and income for their coffers. I bet they have some specific legal definition on the books as to what constitutes a refurbished and a remanufactured device.

[teebee1234]

Good replies... If this will be illegal. Why does Ricoh sell the nvrams and the copy count boxes to anybody. Just something to think about.

The nvrams wouldn't affect the mechanical meter(s) that are somewhat hidden, just the electronic counter. The color devices usually have 2 mechanical counters - 1 for total b/w prints and 1 for total color.

[copyaction]

Good replies... If this will be illegal. Why does Ricoh sell the nvrams and the copy count boxes to anybody..

in case they were defective, of course