Who would you vote for?

[10871087]

Only in American can the Left Wing Scum hope and Pray that American soldiers die, the more the better. The left Wing Scum wanted this war to fail, they wanted mass casualty and America defeated.

If this is really what you believe the you are just STUPID. If you saying this because you want to get a rise out of people then you are just an ASSHOLE. Either way you can just go FUCK YOURSELF.

Honestly dude, turn off FOX News and go read something other the the NY Post (if you can read) and actually get educated on pre-9/11 intelligence, Afganastan, the complete breakdown of our intelligence community, UN weapons inspectors and the lead up to the war in Iraq. Then come back here for some honest discussion. OUR government failed ALL OF US and as soon as more of us quit the mindless partisan finger pointing and figure out how to actually use the tools we have to actually control this problem and prevent future incidents the better off we all will be.

I'm a Veteran of the first Gulf War and a New Yorker that had a clear view of what happened on that crystal clear Tuesday morning in Sept 2001 and I find your comments highly useless.

Have a nice day!

[pjdbm]

If this is really what you believe the you are just STUPID. If you saying this because you want to get a rise out of people then you are just an ASSHOLE. Either way you can just go FUCK YOURSELF.



Have a nice day!

First off Fuck you and fuck the horse you rode in on. I don't listen to fox news and its no secret in what I have said. If you are educated in any way you would understand, but I guess your not so it is what it is.

You fucking asshole, if it was not for the Clinton administration, we would not of had 9/11. The Clinton administration cut military and all FBI and CIA structures in half! They had Bin Laden two times on a platter and they fucked up!!!!!! You are one of the stupid uneducated bastards that think 9/11 was fixed! You Jack ass!!!!!!!!!!

Go fix a Mita Copier, a copier technician is the only capacity you will ever see.

[Baphomet]

If this is really what you believe the you are just STUPID. If you saying this because you want to get a rise out of people then you are just an ASSHOLE. Either way you can just go FUCK YOURSELF.

I read this and wasn't going to get involved (and maybe I shouldn't), but I am taken aback by that kind of hostility. I have read many of your post and you appear to be a very intelligent, well rounded, thoughtful individual; and this reaction to someone else's statement seem out of character for you.

I can only speak for myself, and I try (though not always successfully) to attack and OPINION not a PERSON. If everyone discussing politics or religion would stick to that, more credibility would be given to the thread.

I have only been posting on this site for a couple of weeks and I certainly do not want to make enemies, but I had to add my 2 cents here.

[pjdbm]

I did not direct my focus on any member here, but that asshole made first attack on a member (me) and I will not let it slide. "You Ain't fucking with a couch Potato Bro"

[fixthecopier]

O.K., that road as become a little rough. In an effort to keep the discussion alive on some of the issues, lets take a different path. I know both sides have said they will bring jobs back, they always do. I know the republican plan calls for big tax breaks for the corporate sector using the trickle down plan. That plan being that if you give the people at the top enough money, then one day some of it will trickle down on the guy at the bottom. I think it kind of works, because a lot of people at the bottom are saying that they are really getting "trickled on" by thier government.
So how do feel the job market in your area has been for the last eight years. I have to give Bush credit on this one, my town is booming! Of course we are an army town and we are at war........ the two might be related.

[Baphomet]

I think it kind of works, because a lot of people at the bottom are saying that they are really getting "trickled on" by thier government.

I like that.

Pretty much the state that I live in, Texas, seems to be pretty sound economically as far as I can tell. But then, I am not a business owner, small or large. A year hasn't past where I haven't made more than the year before. My mortgage payments have gone down, not up. The only increase that has been a burden has been fuel cost, but even that has been easy to manage.

I like the idea of owing less taxes at the end of the year, but on the other hand I like for my employer to afford to give me a raise each year as well. If I could have both, I would be happy.

Economics is my weakest link. I get a headache thinking about it, so I think about it on a very basic level.

[laserman06]

Another liberal talking point and scare tactic!

Remember, we have borrowed most of what we spent so far in Iraq, from China, ...

I have to disagree with this statement. The money that is gotten from the sale of bonds and other debt insturments is not tied to any particular budget item. To say that it only funds the war is not true. It funds all aspects of the government.

Japan is actually the biggest buyer of these debt insturments. China is 2nd. China's economy is tied in to ours, in that we are their biggest importer of their goods. So they have no interest in devaluing our economy.

Let me say that I hate deficits. Especially my own. Here is a link to a story about this.

PolitiFact | Other countries, too

[10871087]

...The left Wing Scum wanted this war to fail, they wanted mass casualty and America defeated.

First off let me apologize to PJDBM for my uncalled for F-Bomb, I try to not make my politics personal but sometimes when I read a statement like the one you made I tend to come unglued. If you honestly believe that your average Democrat or even a Democrat on the far left side would want the US to loose a war and get American Service Menbers killed then your crazy. Nuff said on that, Again I appologize.

[fixthecopier]

Briefing: The Iraq money pit



How much has the war cost so far?
About $600 billion since 2003, and the total is rising fast. Because of soaring fuel costs and the high price of repairing or replacing damaged equipment, the U.S. is spending about $12 billion a month this year, up from $4 billion a month in 2003. About $1.5 billion of the monthly total covers reconstruction, and perhaps an additional $4.5 billion flows to private contractors doing everything from serving food to guarding diplomats. The remainder covers fuel, ammunition, and equipment, as well as the cost of paying, feeding, housing, and providing medical care to more than 150,000 U.S. military personnel. The $600 billion figure does not include such costly consequences as higher oil prices, the interest on the billions borrowed to pay for the war (see below), and the burden of long-term care and benefits for Iraq war veterans.

The $3 Trillion War,Has the money been well spent?
The credit card war
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[pspahr]

[QUOTE=fixthecopier[/QUOTE]


Sorry man, don't see a problem with any of the above expenditures......I have a great idea, though! Let's kill all of the bs social programs that reward slack, lazy, yet capable americans and put their butts to work. That'll save some cash. Next, let's take away the "prize" to illegal immigrants and make it so that they don't get free health care (yep, I said it, I'm evil), take away the "anchor baby" provisions, and make it generally awful for anyone to come here in any way other than by legal channels!!!! Wow, that would free up all kinds of cash.

[fixthecopier]

Ok, lets talk about illegal immigrants. Just like NAFTA,the right wing voters want something done, but fail to understand that the people they vote for have different ideas. Over the past 8 years, list all the efforts that the republican party has made to stop illegals from coming here. What about NAFTA? I get tired of hearing about how it caused jobs to leave the country, but can't find any republican in politics who is trying to get it removed.
As far as the illegals go, I agree that people should enter this country the legal way, but again our government has failed to make any improvement. { HINT: all the money wasted in Iraq could have built one hell of a fence }
I have lived around farms all my life and these days can't find a farmer who wants to pay white kids to work for him; they say they are lazy compaired to Mexicans. And what about the nasty jobs. In Tarheel there is a Smithfield hog processing plant the size of an auto assembly plant. Most of the employees there is are illegals. When the INS raided the place they almost shut it down. None of the non-illegals I know who need jobs will work there because it is too nasty. Anybody want to kill hogs and gut em for eight dollars an hour, come to Tarheel. How much more are you willing to pay for your food to change the current system?
You have raised an issue that the current admin could have adressed in the past eight years but failed to do so while keeping us distracted by war.

[Baphomet]

Ok, lets talk about illegal immigrants. Just like NAFTA,the right wing voters want something done, but fail to understand that the people they vote for have different ideas. Over the past 8 years, list all the efforts that the republican party has made to stop illegals from coming here. What about NAFTA? I get tired of hearing about how it caused jobs to leave the country, but can't find any republican in politics who is trying to get it removed.
As far as the illegals go, I agree that people should enter this country the legal way, but again our government has failed to make any improvement. { HINT: all the money wasted in Iraq could have built one hell of a fence }
I have lived around farms all my life and these days can't find a farmer who wants to pay white kids to work for him; they say they are lazy compaired to Mexicans. And what about the nasty jobs. In Tarheel there is a Smithfield hog processing plant the size of an auto assembly plant. Most of the employees there is are illegals. When the INS raided the place they almost shut it down. None of the non-illegals I know who need jobs will work there because it is too nasty. Anybody want to kill hogs and gut em for eight dollars an hour, come to Tarheel. How much more are you willing to pay for your food to change the current system?
You have raised an issue that the current admin could have adressed in the past eight years but failed to do so while keeping us distracted by war.

I have worked as a field hand, on a hog feeder slab AND in a packing plant. Hard work and low pay ... but I think the point is that I am not an illegal. It is BS that Americans will not perform these jobs, and if these enterprises were not so heavily taxed and regulated they might even have an opportunity to pay a little better. But why should they when they have such a readily available supply of workers who will break their back for twenty bucks a day.

As for Republicans doing something about it ... what? If no body has noticed, the executive branch is republican, but the branch which introduces and passes the policies which would reform and change things is staffed primarily with democrats. The only reason president Clinton had such a successful term was because he had a republican congress. President Bush has had to deal with a democrat congress which is the real cause of most of our domestic failures.

[fixthecopier]

The repulicans had control of the house and senate the fisrt 6 years of bush. I may be wrong, but if Bush has tried to pass some bills to get tuff on the illegals, then I missed it.
You may misunderstand my point. My first job was getting out of high school at noon to go to a tiny plant that made insulation out of paper and chemicals. It was the nastiest job I have ever had and I did it for 2 years. I worked in the tobacco fields in the summer, then in factories for the next 20 with 14 of those in a hot steel forge plant. Some of us older people have a different work ethic. If I needed a paycheck, I would have no problem working in the hog plant, I have a family, i'll do what I have to do. I do not give handouts to the bums who stand at the intersection and ask for handouts. They always have clean clothes and I know they could get a job. I think illegals who work and do not pay taxes can pay for medical treatment. Illegals who don't work should go home.
In every job I have watched spoiled kids turn down work because they did not want to sweat for a living or the pay wasn't high enough for someone who has a whole 6 months work history.
The repulicans have sold out the working man by standing with the democrats to not repeal NAFTA or stopping the illegal work force.
The reason is both things make the companies they own stock in, make more profits and they get big payouts. It is just business.
It should be easy to prove me wrong. Both Bush and McCain have been in office a long time, I am sure someone can list all the times they tried to do something on both of these issues. " DEEDS NOT WORDS"
You see after all of the crying and fits that were thrown after NAFTA passed, I just knew when Bush got in that it would be undone, but alas it never happened. I don't think I have heard a thing about it in the past eight years. Bet if McCain wins I won't hear about it for the next four.

[mtech]

They are all full of crap and they all suck! McCain seems to suck less- for now anyway.

[mjarbar]

As a Brit watching this election, I would like to ask what are the candidates (and everyone's) views on gun control?

The last I heard most Americans who got shot - apart from the actions of law enforcement - ended up being shot with their own gun, combined with the reports of people who should never have had a gun in the first place going crazy and going on a rampage, I would have thought tighter gun control would be a good idea, if not the banning of guns all together.

I know it is a fundermental right to bear arms under the constitution but considering this was written at a time that a persons life could depend on having a firearm, would this now be superfluous to requirements as it were in modern day America. Lets face it - how many New Yorkers for example get attacked by a bear in the middle of Times Square every year?