Condolences To France

[nekowaiidesu]

Re: Condolences To France

My intent was never to deny that religion was the key aspect of this atrocity, as well as so many others.
I meant specifically that post that mentioned "brainwashing from birth a belief in an omnipotent God", or some such wording (I paraphrase because I do not remember), and simply because one chooses to deny all the evidence in front of them and claim that no deity exists, which I believe is their right to do, but to paint all believers with the same broad brush is not the right way to go about it.
I'm rambling because I'm typing this on mobile and if I can't read what I've written I lose track of my thought process.

[point] Believers are not all the same.

Not meaning to paint all believers with one broad brush.
It's no secret that religion has been used to control people. I mean, who are you to question an all-powerful divine and absolute being if it wishes you blow yourself up with semtex? Keep in mind this god decides whether your soul is eternally punished or rewarded after you die.

The problem arises (mostly in already-war-torn countries) where religion takes precedence over reason/education and fanaticism takes precedence over diplomacy. Quality of life low. Desperation is high. Blowing your worldly self up in return for blissful afterlife sounds like a pretty good deal.
Apologies if it seemed like I was saying every religious person is brainwashed - I was aiming more for the ones that, y'know, are brainwashed and end up blowing themselves up or driving trucks through parades..


disclaimer:
Am not trying to say that any particular belief or lack thereof is right or wrong, nor did I mean to imply that all believers are the same. Simply that religion is easily abused by man to breed fanatics under certain conditions (war torn countries, for example) and that giving these kids broader education than just religious zeal would probably help.


"Preventing conflicts is the work of politics; establishing peace is the work of education."

[Copier Addict]

Re: Condolences To France

Not meaning to paint all believers with one broad brush.
It's no secret that religion has been used to control people. I mean, who are you to question an all-powerful divine and absolute being if it wishes you blow yourself up with semtex? Keep in mind this god decides whether your soul is eternally punished or rewarded after you die.

The problem arises (mostly in already-war-torn countries) where religion takes precedence over reason/education and fanaticism takes precedence over diplomacy. Quality of life low. Desperation is high. Blowing your worldly self up in return for blissful afterlife sounds like a pretty good deal.
Apologies if it seemed like I was saying every religious person is brainwashed - I was aiming more for the ones that, y'know, are brainwashed and end up blowing themselves up or driving trucks through parades..


disclaimer:
Am not trying to say that any particular belief or lack thereof is right or wrong, nor did I mean to imply that all believers are the same. Simply that religion is easily abused by man to breed fanatics under certain conditions (war torn countries, for example) and that giving these kids broader education than just religious zeal would probably help.


"Preventing conflicts is the work of politics; establishing peace is the work of education."

Nationalism is just as bad as religion. Being brainwashed by governments to believe your country is better than all other countries. That causes just as much misery in the world.

[subaro]

Re: Condolences To France

Condolences to all those affected in these recent attacks


It also saddens me that these events just make more people want more guns, higher walls, bigger locks and cameras on every other corner.. Remember we were always at war with Eurasia..

to add onto what some said above about access to basic amenities like food and water: EDUCATION!!! Give people the knowledge and power to make themselves useful in trade, find a purpose, earn a living etc.. Rather than brainwashing kids from birth to believe that there is an omnipotent god, and denying them the ability to build their rationality.

Poverty and lack of education are the cause for many problems, from petty crime to international terrorism.

No amount of police and laws will prevent criminals- only punish the ones caught.
No amount of apartheid and war will prevent terrorism- only kill the ones caught.
Often the above simply fuel hate and resentment, and breed more crime / extremism etc...

The statement above i think was rather derogatory to people who believe that there is indeed a omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient creator. just because you don't believe so, makes it the truth. Anyway, you have redeemed yourself by the last post you made to explain what you really meant. So, you see, writing is just that, the interpreter has to come to a conclusion of how his mind processes the information. Therefore, when someone post with vague statements, it can be easily misconstrued by the readers, therefore the importance of making statement or additional points to support stern comments.
Just like religious books, how the readers interpret the context,it is how their reaction will turn out or acted upon. There is plenty of good morals in religion, but the teachers and adults whose mind has been swayed by corrupt men who for dogmatic views and others will commit acts that a moral person would certainly refrain from

[nekowaiidesu]

Re: Condolences To France

Nationalism is just as bad as religion. Being brainwashed by governments to believe your country is better than all other countries. That causes just as much misery in the world.

Somewhat agree. It's certainly causes misery and is dangerous, though I must point out that a secular country could at worst punish you and your family with death for defaulting their ideologies whereas religion threatens to punish you for eternity even after you're dead.

There is also the omniscient & omnificent thing, which is just unrealistic for any nation. A country might claim to be the most powerful. God/s are by nature all powerful, know everything and can defy or succeed any empirical or theoretical knowledge known to man

Again, not trying to bash religion or generalize believers into one pool of 'brainwashed crazies'. Just pointing out again the dangers of concepts like 'all knowing' and 'all powerful' as well the rewards/punishment in the 'eternal afterlife' - religion attempts to answer the human condition questions (typically with a deterministic fatalism approach, which in itself is extremely debatable)

The statement above i think was rather derogatory to people who believe that there is indeed a omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient creator.

Once again, no offense meant to any individual/s. See above as to why I mentioned omnipotence in particular. It is something unique to deities and the very thing that makes it so easy to abuse or twist to your liking.
Example: If the Imam says "Allah is divine and all powerful. He wishes you to blow yourself up and will eternally reward you." - Most people, I suspect, would see through the Imams corruption. While they might not argue Allahs omnipotence, they will argue that the Imam is just a mortal man who is corrupt and using his position to control people under the pretense that his will is actually the will of God. Someone who has been brainwashed into fanaticism -or not ever allowed to question and demand evidence- will likely just go ahead with the order.

[subaro]

Re: Condolences To France

[ Originally Posted by nekowaiidesu



Once again, no offense meant to any individual/s. See above as to why I mentioned omnipotence in particular. It is something unique to deities and the very thing that makes it so easy to abuse or twist to your liking.
Example: If the Imam says "Allah is divine and all powerful. He wishes you to blow yourself up and will eternally reward you." - Most people, I suspect, would see through the Imams corruption. While they might not argue Allahs omnipotence, they will argue that the Imam is just a mortal man who is corrupt and using his position to control people under the pretense that his will is actually the will of God. Someone who has been brainwashed into fanaticism -or not ever allowed to question and demand evidence- will likely just go ahead with the order.[/QUOTE]

Well i think you are trying to get an answer why men are brainwashed as you said. Doctrine is doctrine and the men who are teaching fanatic ideology are themselves controlled by ?. Well lets just say you have to have an understanding of the spiritual realm to gain insights to this. The secular world would only look at tangible evidence and rightly so to the unspiritual mind. But there are real battles being fought in that world. synopsis, is these men thoughts are really not their own and are being manipulated themselves.
I am not putting a religious spin to this thread, but mearly replying to statements given and seeing if i can shed a bit of my own insights, believable or not.

[Iowatech]

Re: Condolences To France

Iowa, what snowflakes were offended by what you said?? You didn't say anything that was even close to offensive

Sorry about that.
I brought up something that could be helpful as a reply to Neo's post, and then a religious debate breaks out just after that. I waited for a while to see if that would die out on it's own and this would return to a thoughtful discussion, as emotions are always high after the sort of attack France had just been through.
It didn't, and it's my fault that happened, and in the context of this of this thread I couldn't see that being very helpful.

[NeoMatrix]

Re: Condolences To France

It's interesting how the threads on CTN digress...

Re: Mood conditioning or Mindcontrol.
The doctrine or dogma mentioned to enslave and control a persons will goes back in
history for a very long time. The act of suppressing or controlling the population is
thousands of years old. I believe one method of conditioning or mindcontrol is inscribed
on the walls in one of the egyptian pyramids.

The Pavlov's dog principle. Pavlov taught his dog to pee on a person leg at the sound of a
bell ring.

Any oppressive regime can place a person in chains electrocuted,punished then reward
that person at intervals for complying to their oppressive will. Such a tormented person
would become conditioned to layers of pain and fear and quickly learn to agree to their
oppressors dogma. If an oppressors cycles of torment continue for some length of time;
such a tormented person would finally lose their self-preservation and will to live. The
younger the person the easier for the oppressor to force their mind conditioning dogma.
If that same tourched person goes on to become a hate filled oppressive controller to
other people, it would only be matter of time before a totally dark regime of hatred
conditions the mind of an entire hidden military type social structure.

Such be the case, I believe there would exist a dark filled social structure in place
where hidden layers of "emotionally triggered subconscious hatred" is forcibly instilled
in the minds of it's oppressed army. There may exist a mental subconscious condition in
this oppressed society where the simple mention of a spoken word like "love" would
instill great fear and violent anger. Where as in the opposite vain you speak of words like
"evil hate", an those tormented souls embrass the ideal of warm friendship and a shake
of the hand with eager desire. What happens when an oppressed persons conscious intent
an emotions become forcefully reverse to other people in society? How do we treat the
cause of such an illness of the soul? An example might be a rabbid dog. Every person
fears a violent rabbid dog, an demands the dog be put down. We should treat the "cause
of disease" in a rabbid dog by affirming that the disease is quarantined,identified and
removed? The dog itself has every desire and basic instinct to once again be
happy,healthy and receive worthy affection; not to be shot.

I guess it's always easier to assume something, and forever more difficult to prove it as fact.

[NeoMatrix]

Re: Condolences To France

[Snip]

Well i think you are trying to get an answer why men are brainwashed as you said. Doctrine is doctrine and the men who are teaching fanatic ideology are themselves controlled by ?. Well lets just say you have to have an understanding of the spiritual realm to gain insights to this. The secular world would only look at tangible evidence and rightly so to the unspiritual mind. But there are real battles being fought in that world. synopsis, is these men thoughts are really not their own and are being manipulated themselves.
I am not putting a religious spin to this thread, but mearly replying to statements given and seeing if i can shed a bit of my own insights, believable or not.

@Subaro: You allude to a paradigm shift in the above closing paragraph.
Perhaps you may like to elabrate further on what you mean?

What mind conditioning area in particular are you referring too: metaphysic like Voodoo,
witchcraft,spirtually? Perhap physics, like EMP/Scalar systems,mobile phone
towers/satelite systems?

In prelude to my assumption:
I'm aware there are gray areas of technology(ostrich syndrome) in use that are openly in
advance of the currently recognised social systems of law. An outdated law system which
is unable to keep up with such technology. We all live in an ever changing world of
technology; the misuse of that technology however harmless it appears to the majority,
cannot be called to accountability, for there is no existing balance of law or control
in place to be able to consistantly measure and force compliance. Example, mobile phone
tower(s) or microwave link towers propagating "harmless" EMF through one person home may
not be as harmless to the next person in the adjacent building. EMF cavity resonance,
along with multi tower intersected modulation effects and sperry force different
abnormal behavior, mood modification and sleep deprevation to various people. To
clarify: p!ssed off angry citizens slowly conditioned to negative health living
conditions. A persons mental health slowly being conditioned to accept the negative
emotions they feel are the normality. A world filled with ever more angry people is not
a better world. Where does the true accountability for misuse or abuse of modern
technology lay? Is there even a recognised real world solution, and which public body
would address the real problem?

I've heard it said "we no longer live in a 'Democracy', we now live in a 'Technocracy',
where those with the most technology get to rule unelected by stealth". How does the
social system force a multi layered "stealth governing system" out into the open
publicly and back to the voting booth? The days of the ostrich hiding its head in the
sand have long surpassed. IMHO, the current elected government(s) along with law/legal
institutes need to seriously address the real issues with modern technology, by putting
proper publicly transparent regulatory bodies and mandates in place. Regulations that
fail to table in government under the guise of national security is utter B/S. Ostrich
syndrome is over with, the equine has bolted...



Tomorrow will always be just another day......

[subaro]

Re: Condolences To France

[QUOTE=NeoMatrix;525335]@Subaro: You allude to a paradigm shift in the above closing paragraph.
Perhaps you may like to elabrate further on what you mean?

What mind conditioning area in particular are you referring too: metaphysic like Voodoo,
witchcraft,spirtually? Perhap physics, like EMP/Scalar systems,mobile phone
towers/satelite systems?


Well, Neo, to answer your question, i would have to delve into some areas that would not be fit for this thread and forum. The dog chasing its tail would what it would lead to. So i stop here.
Vive la France

[nekowaiidesu]

Re: Condolences To France

Sorry about that.

I don't think the thread spiraled into huge religious debate lol. I think it was largely my fault for being vague and offensive and taking a few walls of text to clear that up. I don't see anyone flaming so I think it's under control.

Any oppressive regime can place a person in chains electrocuted,punished then reward
that person at intervals for complying to their oppressive will.

Two plus two equals?

EMF cavity resonance,
along with multi tower intersected modulation effects and sperry force different
abnormal behavior, mood modification and sleep deprevation to various people.

This reminds me of the story like to the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. game a little. I have never given this much serious thought in reality and generally shrugged it off to tinfoil-hat types but I'm starting to wonder a lot more.

The idea in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. was that 7 scientists' consciousness were linked into a kind of hivemind called Common-Conscioussness - This allowed them to interact directly with the Noosphere in attempt to tweak human nature but in the process affect the biosphere to create the post-apocalyptic setting full of strange anomalies the games takes place around. It even includes a giant antenna type structure nicknamed "Brain Scorcher" which is used to basically 'zombify' people who are then easily brainwashed or disposed of. Funnily enough it also uses an analogy of religion in all of this - but I think we've got enough of that in this thread without going into the realm of science-fiction!

There may exist a mental subconscious condition in
this oppressed society where the simple mention of a spoken word like "love" would
instill great fear and violent anger.

Hate week? We were always at war with Eurasia!

we now live in a 'Technocracy',
where those with the most technology get to rule unelected by stealth"

"Your appointment to FEMA should be finalized within the week..."

[NeoMatrix]

Re: Condolences To France

[Snip]

"Your appointment to FEMA should be finalized within the week..."

I'm an Aussie, we don't have USA FEMA in OZ, well not officially anyway...

The particular EMF an associated "big-bother" topics I've disgusted in early threads are over 25-30 years old to me. I worked with this subject material many years ago when I did part-time humanitarian work for groups like Amnesty International. The subject is quite an old topic for me personally, an likewise many others.

Advances in scalar technology have moved on since I became familiar with the topic; some of it truly amazing, some of it abhorred. I still fine it surprising how each generation of youth believes they're the first to discover something devoid an sinister.

The dark side of human nature is still based on 98% orangutan DNA, their behaviour over the last 30 years hasn't surprise me to any degree, they're right on par with their natural DNA sequence.







And no viva la France, just sympathy to the innocent tourist and those families in the city of Nice who suffered pointlessly....

[subaro]

Re: Condolences To France

[QUOTE=nekowaiidesu;525354]I don't think the thread spiraled into huge religious debate lol. I think it was largely my fault for being vague and offensive and taking a few walls of text to clear that up. I don't see anyone flaming so I think it's under control.


I agree with the above and would say healthy discussion with a global audience and participants is a good thing as you get a feel of how peoples of different lands looks at events and spells it out. Mr. Nekowaiidesu, you did not offend anyone really, is that your statement just needed clarifying or expanded, i.e the one where omnipotent was mentioned, which you did later on.
I think the thread was bound to go this route a bit as the event involved religious elements in the scope of the why's. Trying to figure out why men behave the way they do in the extreme is a complex thing, with many suggestions. Well i would like to hear those suggestions , but some are too easily offended when others try to explain in writing what they think.

[nekowaiidesu]

Re: Condolences To France

I'm an Aussie, we don't have USA FEMA in OZ, well not officially anyway...

The FEMA thing was a reference to another game, one of my all-time favourites: Deux Ex. (I play a lot of games lol and sometimes forget not everyone gets obscure the references)

The theme of that game was also a very dystopian future, in which corporations essentially pull the strings of the government (Largely centered around disease which is actually man-made to cull the poor and extort the rich)... So not much unlike our real world, or the covert illuminati 'technocracy' you mentioned.

"Your appointment to FEMA should be finalized within the week.." was the opening line of the intro cutscene. The game has quite a cult following and as such that line of dialogue became a meme among the fan base.

I agree with the above and would say healthy discussion with a global audience and participants is a good thing

Thank you Subaro for engaging and understanding. I think religion, Islam in particular, is going to go continue through many trials and tribulations brought unto it by 'a few bad apples'. It is quite refreshing that people are open to discuss sensitive topics, on a copier forum no less. With all due respect to those affected in Nice, I have enjoyed the content of this thread

[NeoMatrix]

Condolences To ...?

Pit in my stomach.....

I don't know if the pit in my stomach was caused from one to many beers last night, or the fact I turn the television news on this morning to witness yet another one of those pointless, meaningless
defecation of human extirpated acts played out on the screen in front of me, again.

Our sympathy to the families and friends of those people in the city of Munich, Germany....

I'm tempted to cut the electrical plug off my television...

.....

[theengel]

Re: Condolences To ...?

I'm tempted to cut the electrical plug off my television...

.....

I think many politicians have already done so... hence the denial.