Pros Elite, What do you think of it?

[Copier Whisperer]

A question for all tekkies who works under the Pros Elite system.

What are your thoughts as a technician (especially the older ones) about Pros Elite?

[tonerhead]

Re: Pros Elite, What do you think of it?

I actually did better with it than BEI on commissions. I don't remember the parameters that were set for the techs. But for me working a rural area with lots of miles between calls it worked out better. I'm not a big fan of either system. There are lots of good management tools in both. But as far as the tech, they suck and give mgmt more ways to screw the workers over. For example mgmt doesn't have to give out the commissions either suggest, but may give out only a portion and keep the rest for themselves (yes this does happen). I remember one year mgmt said there would be no raises as BEI should provide the increases to the harder working techs. Well when you are driving 200 miles/day you don't get nearly the calls or commissions of a tech who has a 5 square mile territory with enough machine base to provide 3M/month clicks. I had one manager that was so set on the matrics of BEI, that rode me like Sea Biscuit. IE you are not a good tech, you only do 65 calls/month with .5M clicks. Your machine time is only 40%. ETC. He found every excuse in the book because of BEI to put me down. He tweaked the metrics so much that I never got any BEI. He later capped BEI payout for the entire service dept. Then all of a sudden the techs who were getting decent BEI were the only ones getting it and not as much as they used to. Since I left that company, I hear there are no more BEI commissions period. Way to take care of the techs.

They both give mgmt a good cpc on copiers already in the field, however sales takes that cpc and whittles it to the bone to get the sale.

The glory days of making money in copiers/printers is gone. The whole system is going down the drain and IMO BEI and Pros Elite are just helping to drag it down. Let's face it if a canon is going up against a Ricoh, these systems will tell mgmt what the cpc of each is. Company A will bid the minimum and so will Company B based on what the cpc is. They both know each other's cpc. There is no mystery anymore, just statistics. A company needs to make profit, these services pass out info to anyone who pays for it. The info passed out is cpc break even point and that's where sales always ends up at.

This is my view as a tech, I'm sure mgmt has other viewpoints.

[Copier Whisperer]

Re: Pros Elite, What do you think of it?

I'm an old guy fixin' to retire after 42 years in the business, so my opinion is from the old school. For the vast majority of my career, we were given a territory and were responsible for managing it. Back then, we could build customer relationships, make decisions based on customer need, and prioritize calls based on customer needs. I always have churches priority on Thursdays because that is when they run their bulletins. Early April is when the accountants get priority. And so on. You could take your time on PM's to ensure everything is perfect. Most machines will run PM to PM if done right.

Now with Pros Elite and recently BEI (which is now just like PE), none of that matters. The only priority is numbers and the customer does not come first, and the technician comes in dead last. The metrics they use have less to do with overall work quality but focusing squeezing every little penny from the customer and every minute from every technician. They don't care about relationships, customer satisfaction, or repeat sales. They are mainly concerned about hitting that magical 52% profit, come hell of high water. I have found that this system is actually used as a weapon to beat down the technicians as you can never get all the numbers right. The big buzzword is Micromanagement.

It has turned what used to be a highly satisfying and rewarding career into a high-stress, no-reward, adversarial job. It is a real drag on the industry and I'm glad to get out of it. The most successful company in my area does not use this, or BEI, and they are absolutely ripping the competition a new one.

[tonerhead]

Re: Pros Elite, What do you think of it?

Whisperer: It is like I am looking at myself in the mirror. Everything you have said is absolutely true. I'm pretty old school also being 32 years into this. It used to be more about customer relationships. Keep the customer happy and you will have a job for life. I used to have several good relationships with customers. Now with BEI and PE in the mix, parts are to the bone. Parts that you used to replace at manufacturer's recommendations are stretched as far as possible. Used to be I drove a company van, loaded to the gills with parts. My no parts calls and callbacks were extremely low. Now I drive a company compact vehicle with the bare essentials of parts. You ruin many relationships if the customer has to wait a day or two for parts to arrive.

You know though, it all comes back to management. I understand that the company needs to make money, but sales are cut to the bone. Practically every sale made these days is at near zero profitability over the contract term. I remember back in the late 90's, sales was whining that service needs to cut prices to become more competitive with bids. I remember the owner in charge of service shooting right back that we had one of the premier service teams with Lanier products, Ricoh calls us regularly for advice. This sort of service team requires additional expense to maintain and our customers understand that they are receiving first quality repairs from us. Then he looked at the sales team dead-eyed and said our service is quality, and if you can't sell quality over quantity, there is the door.

I also remember a large sale that was on the fence. The sales director came to the service meeting to say service had to cut $40,000 on the contract over the 3 year term to make the customer go with us. The service mgr fired back, how much profit is in this sale? $100,000 to the sales dept. He told sales to drop the prices $40,000, they walked out. He later came back and said drop your prices $20,000 and I will drop service rate $20,000. They still walked out. Lost the sale. Lesson here is sales wants profit on their side, but expect service to cut to the bone.

[slimslob]

Re: Pros Elite, What do you think of it?

Whisperer: It is like I am looking at myself in the mirror. Everything you have said is absolutely true. I'm pretty old school also being 32 years into this. It used to be more about customer relationships. Keep the customer happy and you will have a job for life. I used to have several good relationships with customers. Now with BEI and PE in the mix, parts are to the bone. Parts that you used to replace at manufacturer's recommendations are stretched as far as possible. Used to be I drove a company van, loaded to the gills with parts. My no parts calls and callbacks were extremely low. Now I drive a company compact vehicle with the bare essentials of parts. You ruin many relationships if the customer has to wait a day or two for parts to arrive.

You know though, it all comes back to management. I understand that the company needs to make money, but sales are cut to the bone. Practically every sale made these days is at near zero profitability over the contract term. I remember back in the late 90's, sales was whining that service needs to cut prices to become more competitive with bids. I remember the owner in charge of service shooting right back that we had one of the premier service teams with Lanier products, Ricoh calls us regularly for advice. This sort of service team requires additional expense to maintain and our customers understand that they are receiving first quality repairs from us. Then he looked at the sales team dead-eyed and said our service is quality, and if you can't sell quality over quantity, there is the door.

I also remember a large sale that was on the fence. The sales director came to the service meeting to say service had to cut $40,000 on the contract over the 3 year term to make the customer go with us. The service mgr fired back, how much profit is in this sale? $100,000 to the sales dept. He told sales to drop the prices $40,000, they walked out. He later came back and said drop your prices $20,000 and I will drop service rate $20,000. They still walked out. Lost the sale. Lesson here is sales wants profit on their side, but expect service to cut to the bone.

What I was used to was thew sales manager and large account sales person was also the owner. He had 2 objectives. Total profit and keeping customers happy. He also knew that the service department was the entity that allowed the company to meet the second objective. The previous owner started in the office equipment business as a service tech with Olivetti.

[Copier Whisperer]

Re: Pros Elite, What do you think of it?

I was getting reprimanded by management because my FCE numbers were too low. They wouldn't give me a decent parts inventory. BTW, we had to ask permission to order parts over $100.00. So, over about a three week period, I kept track of the parts I needed to complete a call but didn't have. During this period, I asked permission to order parts no matter what the cost. I also asked if each part should be added to my car stock. Out of 13 times, they approved only 3 parts to add to my inventory. One was a plastic hinge for a small ADF that I never needed before or since, but it only cost $9.00 so it was added to my stock. Another part was a request to increase my Canon iRC 5500 series drums from 1 to 4. They approved that request but never sent them to me. After all this, they still couldn't understand why I couldn't get my FCE numbers up! It is like managing a baseball team from the home office by looking at nothing but the statistics. You have to have a coach on the field who knows what really is going on to win the game.

[tonerhead]

Re: Pros Elite, What do you think of it?

Whisperer: You sure we don't work for the same company? I know we don't but, your mgmt and mine must be reading from the same play book. If it's any consolation, I've developed a WTF attitude. These are the cards I've been given and I'll do the best I can for myself and customer. I totally ignore the BEI stats. Nothing I can do to change it. It is what it is. I know my fce is probably about like yours. Screw the FCE, I will have a hold for parts if the machine needs it. I really think that keeping the customer happy is worth more than what I'd receive by trying to get the additional $100-$200/month BEI by scrimping on parts. Parts with these programs is a double edge sword. The more you use, the less your BEI, but the more you use, the more you are allowed to carry also.

One reason I left a few years back from another company. Our manager had never fixed a copier in his life and lived for BEI. We all had similar territories, my cpc and parts usage was higher than most. So he crucified me on the stats. Another stat he crucified me on was slack time. I generally had 1-1.5 hr more slack time than the other techs each day. How can that be if we have similar territories? I think it was because I was putting in parts as needed and not skimping like the others to get BEI. But because I was doing what was right, he assumed I was not doing a thorough enough job like not cleaning cabinetry. The one thing he "almost" praised me on was lower callbacks than most, but he justified the lower callbacks as "just throwing additional parts" at machines rather than trying to extend life on parts. Like I said here is a guy that never fixed a copier in his life, he came from retail mgmt to manage our service dept.

BEI and PE are needed by mgmt because of keeping up with the competition that have it. HOWEVER!!! It cuts costs to the bone, doesn't do the techs or customers any favors. There is no money to be made in the industry since the later 90's when some dumb idiot started selling contracts with toner included and BEI/PE types of things were just starting out.

[Nachoman4life]

Re: Pros Elite, What do you think of it?

I take no bonus, or commission, in fact disagree with cutting corners because of....
PE and BEI give confusing answers, and charge alot for it.
Its MLM, as far I can tell. Its mostly about the dealer cutting a check for the org., and no real help to the dealer or customer.

[tonerhead]

Re: Pros Elite, What do you think of it?

I take no bonus, or commission, in fact disagree with cutting corners because of....
PE and BEI give confusing answers, and charge alot for it.
Its MLM, as far I can tell. Its mostly about the dealer cutting a check for the org., and no real help to the dealer or customer.

I would tend to disagree a little. I have learned a little more about copier parts stock and things from BEI/PE. When you look at some of the data, you do find that some parts tend to go longer than manufacturer's suggestions easily. I do agree that these companies get paid for their services. The trouble is that if the competition uses this data in bidding situations, we have to also or we would be underbid in most of the potential sales. Unfortunately this just leads to a race to no profit to get the bid. It wouldn't hurt my feelings any if BEI/PE would just roll over and die. In ancient times there was the mystery of the competitions bids, so sales would try to maximize profits yet still get the bid. BEI/PE has taken away lots of the mystery, so sales generally goes in bidding towards bare minimums with little profit. Back in ancient times when I serviced Lanier products we laughed as there were 3 Canon dealers in our area. All 3 would bid the same product, but the bids could be about 15-20% difference between upper and lower bid. Now with BEI/PE, the bids are virtually the same LOW!!!!