People's Discretion

[nmfaxman]

We all are working for a living.
Third world counties are no exception.
I don't mind helping where I can, I just need to understand what the problem is in a better format.
I tend to look if it is a new user, how many posts they place and even the username.
A new user post I look at what they use for a username and how they post the question.
Requests for manuals I tend to not reply because they are available for a price, or free if you do the right research.
I use any place at the cheapest price when I can't find it anywhere else, I don't beg for free unless I can provide another manual in trade.

I still recommend a testing to distinguish tech from end user.
Free fixes take money from us who can do it right the first time.

[KenB]

Tough Love

Sadly, I think as our so called "economy" gets dippier and dippier, the issue of end users and non-qualified service folks (regardless of location) will only progressively get worse.

It can be an extremely fine line between being helpful and giving away the keys to the proverbial castle.

While all of us are inclined to want to help, (after all, it's what we DO for a living) sometimes the best thing we can do is refer whoever is asking to check with a local dealer. I guess you could call it a form of "Tough Love".

Doing so will get better results and cost much less in the long run, not to mention maintaining the integrity of the industry as a whole.

[mrwho]

Although I commented on your original post that caused all this fuss, I didn't feel offended in any way - just sharing my point of view!

About kicking the copier, I had a couple of chances of breaking some returned machines from a competing manufacturer with my hands (and feet) and, man! Did that feel great!

[schooltech]

Well, if we're going to be kicking the machines, there seems to be a great supply of "brand name" shoes trying to be peddled on the site!!!!!

Given the new poster (same guy I assume) that wants us to buy shoes, I guess we can all pitch in a bit and get some healthy 'air jordan' discounts.

Oh, the trips to the scrap yard with some copiers felt great----the memories----

[Karsten]

Not every foreigner posting on this board writes in a broken english - at least, I hope so!

On the other hand, I've learned that more than 50% of the people that speak/write bad english are people that use english as a primary language - so your argument isn't so strong (this also applies to other languages, of course).

Not that I want to re-open this can of worms but I would like to comment on this.
I was born and raised in Germany, learned some english in school. I came to these United States ten years ago and had to learn quite a lot of the english language. I KNOW that my english is a lot better than that of a lot of people whose 1st language is english, especially the written (spelling) stuff. When I read some of the things on the various message boards I often wonder how these people made it through high school.
Don't get me going on spanish. Why is it that you find signs in spanish everywhere? why is it I have to press 1 for english? I can press 2 for spanish, so what number do I press for german?????
I don't care that Mexico borders the USA. I am not a racist by any means, but this is an english speaking country. So if you want to live here, learn the language. I had to do it, so can everyone else.

[mrwho]

Not that I want to re-open this can of worms but I would like to comment on this.
I was born and raised in Germany, learned some english in school. I came to these United States ten years ago and had to learn quite a lot of the english language. I KNOW that my english is a lot better than that of a lot of people whose 1st language is english, especially the written (spelling) stuff. When I read some of the things on the various message boards I often wonder how these people made it through high school.
Don't get me going on spanish. Why is it that you find signs in spanish everywhere? why is it I have to press 1 for english? I can press 2 for spanish, so what number do I press for german?????
I don't care that Mexico borders the USA. I am not a racist by any means, but this is an english speaking country. So if you want to live here, learn the language. I had to do it, so can everyone else.

I suppose that happens because most of the USA's closest neighouring countries have spanish as their official language (Mexico, Peru, Argentina, Guatemala, Chile, Cuba... did I miss any?). The only exceptions, if I recall correctly, are Canada (and Canadians speak English as their first or second language) and Brazil (they speak portuguese, but it's close enough to spanish, and most portuguese/brazilian people can at least understand most of it).

I don't believe that it stops them from learning the language - they just get an extra help because they probably are the majority of immigrants into the USA.

[Scott_Lewis]

So if you want to live here, learn the language. I had to do it, so can everyone else.

I'll probably get tagged as a racist for this. But, I agree whole-heartedly.

If you don't want to learn English, go back home.

[Karsten]

I suppose that happens because most of the USA's closest neighouring countries have spanish as their official language (Mexico, Peru, Argentina, Guatemala, Chile, Cuba... did I miss any?). The only exceptions, if I recall correctly, are Canada (and Canadians speak English as their first or second language) and Brazil (they speak portuguese, but it's close enough to spanish, and most portuguese/brazilian people can at least understand most of it).

I don't believe that it stops them from learning the language - they just get an extra help because they probably are the majority of immigrants into the USA.

You are SO wrong. Do you know how many people that have lived here for years don't speak english? And why, because we enable them. My wife works for a hospital on their advice line and she often gets these people. They know just enough to say "interpreter". And I don't even blame them, I blame this country for letting them. I once walked into a tiny little Pizza place and there was only one person from a different country in there (don't want to say which one, don't want to piss anybody off) and he couldn't even tell me that they weren't open yet, he just kept pointing at the clock, WTF?

[KenB]

There are people who are born and raised in the US, and spend their entire lives here, without ever learning English. They also lead full and productive lives.

I understand that this is common in Spanish Harlem in New York.

I'm sure that there are other areas; I just don't know where.

[JustManuals]

Every major city in the US has neighborhoods where a good portion of the residents don't speak English, they could live here for 100 years and they'll never learn. They don't need to, they don't venture out and they only deal with their own kind.

[mrwho]

Sorry for my misunderstanding, after all I've never been to the US and I was just guessing (that's why I began the previous post with "I suppose").

It goes to show that what Karston said was probably true - if you facilitate too much, people will not try as hard to learn their host country's language.

I know for a fact that, here in my country, most of the foreigners try to learn the language - heck, I've even been approached by english-speaking tourists (that probably were spending only a couple of days here) who where looking for directions and they tried to talk to me in my language before they understood that I spoke their language.

So, I think it's understandable that I thought the same would apply to the US - seems not, after all...

[fixthecopier]

I'll probably get tagged as a racist for this. But, I agree whole-heartedly.

If you don't want to learn English, go back home.

I got some input from a friend of mine who has had family living in this part of the state for thousands of years. He and his people agree with a lot of you. They said if you are not going to learn to speak a Native American language, then fuck all of you, take your relatives and go back where your language came from. I think he has a good point.

[banginbishop]

Every major city in the US has neighborhoods where a good portion of the residents don't speak English, they could live here for 100 years and they'll never learn. They don't need to, they don't venture out and they only deal with their own kind.

Well it's been kinda interesting reading the initial thread and then it turning into a political agenda regarding language etc. This debate will run and run regarding the native tongue and people entering yours (USA) or my country (UK).







Saudi Arabia

[Scott_Lewis]

I got some input from a friend of mine who has had family living in this part of the state for thousands of years. He and his people agree with a lot of you. They said if you are not going to learn to speak a Native American language, then fuck all of you, take your relatives and go back where your language came from. I think he has a good point.

Got a chuckle out of this. Native Americans were somewhat in the same position 300 years ago that we are in today. They were invaded by people of a radically different culture and superior numbers. They ended up losing and being to a lessor or greater extend being subsumed by that culture.

I don't want to start down that same path.

[TheOwl]

Well I don't know how my thread turned into this, but I think it is time that I put my two cents in.

Most of the posts recently are talking about learning english if you go to an english speaking country. I think what may have sparked this is the mention of broken english.

Well...... This is the internet people, not your country. The last time I checked, the internet is available in countries that don't speak english. Well done to the people that get on here and give it a go.

If you don't want to reply to these so called broken english threads, then don't. No one is forcing you.

For those who do try to help, well done.

It shouldn't matter where we come from or what language we speak, we all need help at some stage and some times that requires going the extra mile and going out of your comfort zone.

For some people, english is out of their comfort zone. Be tolerant!