Rape me over the coals no more

[JR2ALTA]

Scam is taking it too far.

The machine has a lot of moving parts, the toner is just as valuable as a transfer gear the size of your pinky nail.

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

Ok. Some people are being a little ridiculious. It was a perfectly working laser printer by all rights that should have been over $100 easily on its own without any toners at all. He got two of them for $40. So the only scam, or con, is that I saved the customer at least $160 that he can now use on something for his business. I'd like to see some of you people start selling things at a loss; you won't be in this industry for long.

Kevin, I do appreciate your comments as I've always believed in the freedom of sharing knowledge and opinions. I do have to disagree with you, but I like your reasoning...if I got it right, it would go something like this, and I may use it in the future...

...scenario, I go to buy a car that was advertised for $30,000. When I get the car home, I call the dealer and threaten to sue him. The conversation goes something like this:

Me: I have a problem with this purchase.
Car Dealer: What's the matter?
Me: I'm rather disappointed. I thought there would be a briefcase in the trunk of the car with a million dollars in it.
Car Dealer: Do you think we can take a loss, selling a $30,000 car with a million bucks in the trunk?
Me: Well I'm going to sue b/c I feel I've been cheated.
Car Dealer: Well our ad never said that there would be a briefcase with a million dollars in it in the trunk.
Me: Oh, but your ad never said that it didn't include a briefcase in the trunk with a million dollars in it.

Same scenario as the printer thing, except larger values stretched to the extremes. When you think about it now, doesn't it sound rather ridiculous? Of course it does.

[KEVIN900]

Yes, you're right. Expecting a million dollars in the trunk of your $30000 car is ridiculous. Buying a car, then having to push it to the nearest gas station because its bone dry is ridiculous. Expecting a toner cartridge in a printer I just bought, not ridiculous. All the ill will created over twenty measly dollars. Okay, not Bait and Switch, more like taking candy from a baby.

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

Sorry Kevin but you're just wrong. $20 got him a perfectly working printing, nothing more and nothing less. He didn't get a $50 toner, he didn't get a $30 case of paper, he didn't even get a car or a taxi voucher to ensure that he could get the machine home or to his office; which you probably think that I should have done for him.

It all came down to greed. If he wanted a starter cartridge then he should have gone to staples and paid $200-$300 for a brand new piece of junk. The car scenario is exactly the same thing that you're suggesting with my printer situation. Thank you for somewhat indirectly realizing the ridiculiousness of it.

Yes, you're right. Expecting a million dollars in the trunk of your $30000 car is ridiculous. Buying a car, then having to push it to the nearest gas station because its bone dry is ridiculous. Expecting a toner cartridge in a printer I just bought, not ridiculous. All the ill will created over twenty measly dollars. Okay, not Bait and Switch, more like taking candy from a baby.

[KEVIN900]

By giving this poor customer test prints, you misled him into believing he could take it home and start printing straight away. It doesn't matter that it took him 5 days to figure out your malfeasance, to most people, it's not that exciting to get a printer. You can debate this with a thousand posts, with talk of million dollars in the trunk of a car, and cab fare home, and apples and oranges; but it doesn't change the fact that this was unethical. Your customer left you thinking he got a good deal on a printer. He must have been pleased with you when he eventually plugged it in and got an error display. I don't even care who's right or wrong. That don't matter. The fact remains; that was unethical.

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

You're not even worth my time anymore debating this. You are an enabler and probably part of why there are unrealistic customers out there, but thanks for your input; and I do honestly hope that you never get raped over the coals like I and so many of us have before.

Thanks everyone else for your realistic comments and helpful suggestions, I appreciate them very much and will implement them for the future. Good discussion.

[KEVIN900]

I'm an enabler, you're unethical. Did you give your partner a "high-five" after your "mark" left with a non-working printer ? You walked into the coals with that stunt, sorry your customer did not appreciate your business savvy. I'm done with ethics class. I appreciated the discussion as well. Thanks kingpd.

[mailderrick]

I am not sure which side is right..If i bought a 1992 Honda for $300 dollars then went to the back lot after paying for it and went to drive it home only to find out an engine was not included (even if they didn't show me a video of it driving around) i would feel a little robbed even though i can put an engine in and still come out ahead. It is the hassle that is the problem. I would rather have paid mor eupfront to have it working and ready to go..drive off the lot. If i take my pprinter home and finally ready to use it(which meansi have something that needs printed) i go to print it out only to find it not working , then after digging and wondering why. i come to realize that there is no toner..i will be like but they showed me test pages..how did they print? where is the cartridge that was inside? I think your best bet is to say no toner included or the advice given already..include 2 prices..1 with 1 without..or at least provide a starter cartridge and tell them you did so.

[prntrfxr]

Ad should have said "toner not included" as there are idiots out there, but customer should have asked what comes with it.

[mmru4real]

kINGPD, although some in here disagree, I think the ad was just fine except you should have spelled out Toner not included to keep idiots like him and Kevin from assuming and Kevin there is no comparison to what you are saying, no bait and switch sounds like the guy was an idiot for not asking and just assuming. Remember what assume means, makes an ASS out of u and me. Just because you do not agree doesn't mean he is wrong. But comparing it to a car is just plain irrelevent, just makes me want to question some of the people in our industry. No where in the ad or any comments here did I see anything from him that would make me think he was unethical, maybe not detail oriented but definitely not unethical.

[KEVIN900]

Actually Assume means to "believe to be true, without proof". An ASS out of u and me is a tired cliche, used to shut down a discussion when someone uses the word "assume" near someone else who knows this stupid expression. "Working hard, or hardly working ?" might be another hilarious zinger you may want to add to your rotation of tired cliches. And I'd rather be an ethical idiot, than a tool, mmru.

[Scarecrow]

Mr. King, You sold him a box(s) that "prints perfectly". Well it didn't. Suck it up and give the guy some toner. Problem now is that if you do and it only has enough toner for 3 prints, it makes you look even more shifty.

[Stirton.M]

I look at it from the perspective of what am I getting for $20 that should be in the price range of several times that. That old saying, don't look a gift horse in the mouth, almost applies. I would consider the machine a gift at that price, some others would call that a steal. Caveat Emptor applies. What's the catch for getting such a great deal. Personally, I would have asked what that was for such a low price. That the seller did not spell out what came with it is a bit misleading, but the customer should have exercised some gray matter and took a critical look. I've bought used things before, even refurbished things before, and I always make the issue of inspecting. Even buying a car for crying out loud...in fact, especially when buying a car. I am mechanically inclined, with enough experience to know what I am looking at, to know the pitfalls of the mechanics on any given car. If I cannot fully ascertain mechanical issues, I will ensure the car has an inspection by a mechanic of my choosing. That is a consumer law here in Canada, meant to protect me from those assholes who would sell a POS claiming it was better than it really was. But on the other hand, if someone wanted to sell a $30K car for a couple hundred, that would set off alarm bells to me and cause me to give serious questions....ie, what is wrong with that car. It may appear like a great deal, but what is the catch?

To me, this issue is a lot less about what was advertised, and more about the buyer not asking the right questions to begin with. I once bought a printer thinking the USB cord came with it...why not, they are pretty cheap on the shelf...but alas, I get home and there is no cord.

Instead of me lambasting the sales rep, or for that matter, the printer manufacturer, I suck up the embarrassment and return to buy the cord, because I did not stop to inspect what came with the printer. Buyer beware....caveat emptor.

[mmru4real]

Actually Assume means to "believe to be true, without proof". An ASS out of u and me is a tired cliche, used to shut down a discussion when someone uses the word "assume" near someone else who knows this stupid expression. "Working hard, or hardly working ?" might be another hilarious zinger you may want to add to your rotation of tired cliches. And I'd rather be an ethical idiot, than a tool, mmru.

kevin I like how you changed the definition of assume to benifit your response "to take for granted or without proof", the customer took for granted it had toner when it was not clear whether it did or not, it was just as much his responsibility as a buyer to ask what was included and what was not, considering it was used and at a cut-rate price, as far as being ethical that is your opinion, maybe not everone's but since you said idiot who am I to question that. Have a good day.

[JR2ALTA]

Don't get caught up in the personal stuff, you wanted opinions and most people politely said you should have mentioned it in the ad.

A guy buys a gun they don't expect it to be loaded because they know better.

But laypeople buying printers want them to work asap.

If I sell you a "working computer" online, I better mention that there's no monitor.