Responding to non- techs

[laserman06]

Cuckoltz,
Accept this site for what it is. This is an open site for anyone willing to ask a question, or provide an answer. The are no requirements for you participate, so just stop whining.

We all get screwed, sometimes too often. So get over it and participate, or don't (I don't care).

Well said blackcat. I agree. This site is not perfect, but I have found it helpful.

[Scott_Lewis]

Im NOT cheap when it comes to helping others.I WILL HELP ANY ANY ANY ANY TECH I CAN .THAT IS NOT MY ISSUE.

The nice thing about this forum is you get to pick and choose which questions you will answer and participate in.

When I get a customer who is trying to help themselves and takes a little initiative on resolving their own problems, I usually thank them. It is only when they get too aggressive and damage the machine that criticize the effort and possibly charge them for damages. Keep in mind most of my clients are on maintenance agreements.

A side story....... We took a loaner Ricoh 1035 to a client with an Af450 that was acting up and brought back to the shop. Later we got a call that the loaner was jamming and went to service it. Turns out somebody had gone into the fuser to apparently dig a jam out of it. They had scratched up the hot roller to the point of gouging out the aluminum and broken ALL of the sep fingers. They got charged for a fuser rebuild.

If you worked for any copy company as a tech,more then likely YOU GOT SCREWED.While companies charge $90-175 Bucks per hour,Did you get $30,$40 an hour..

Yeah, can get a little discouraging looking at what I charge vs. my own hourly rate. Something to keep in mind, though. Back when I used to write project estimates for projects back when I worked in aerospace, my cost estimates had to include a factor for overhead costs that amounted to 100 to 150% of the tech's salary. IOW, for a tech making $20/hr I had to use $40 to $50 as the cost of labor when figuring the quote. This is actual cost, not including profits.

p.s. The brand new laptop my boss bought for me to use just came in Friday.

[knightfall]

How many techs have in the past said they wished their customers were smart enough to clear a jam or reset that code on the copier/printer before placing that service call and causing you half an hour traveling time? well this site offers the opportunity to non technicians to learn a little bit of service knowledge to clear that jam, reset that code and maybe not make that service call. Besides whats the harm in letting non technicians get a glimpse into our lives, its not like they could take away your job so lighten up.

[Paper_Jam]

Look at the bright side. People here would only give a non tech enough information to make them dangerous. And then when they screw the machine up even worse, you can make even more money off of them.

[WayneW]

To those who would complain

I can certainly see why some would have "chips" on their shoulders about helping others and so on. Lord knows i've had my days as well. But for those who would intentionaly misdirect someone, or otherwise flame them for asking questions i have the following remark.

I am a tech at my company for over 27 years. I have worked on everything from copiers, and printers to presses, ink jet machines, bindry equipment, building computers, setting up web servers, and networks. I am the "go to" guy so to speak. I also manage databases, and have worked on more machinery in those years than most here would even know what it did (not flaming there, i'm jsut saying). I have the SOLE responsibility of managing the lettershop in which i work, everything from fax and copiers, to offest presses, inserting machines and that's just Monday mornings (ha ha).


I came here looking for help, and was wondering why any reply or slight push in the right direction was not forthcoming. After reading these posts, i believe i have my answer. Perhaps i insulted some of you in saying the service contract on this machine went null and void, due to the techs inability to repair the equipment. Well i'm sorry but techs can be idoits too, it's not an insult to anyones intellegence, just a personality trait.
I personally stood over these clowns, and watched them fumble and scratch their heads for days on end working on this machine. If you're offended because we cancelled the service contract, i guess i can understand the sloidarity, but that dosent make THEM right. We had 37 service calls within the first 30 days of having the equipment. It was at that point we decided to relieve them of their duties, and take responsiblity "in house" since we had purchased the machine outright, and their contract was service/supplies only. We did not fail our end, not in any respect. However, now that the machine is in house, and without "professional" service, that leaves me (the go-to guy) to get this thing up and running. A task i can assure you i will not fail.

So you see, when someone asks for help, sometimes it's because they NEED HELP. (SOMETIMES their jobs depend on it).

It was my impression, when i signed up for this site that it was techs helping people. And indeed i see some who do. However this post thread dosent speak well of some. It appears some are VERY "clickish". If this is a strictly "Tech to Tech" board, then perhaps your "welcome" private message should be changed, and/or your registration require some sort of benign tech service code or something to allow you to sign up.

If i have offended anyone, i am sorry, it's not my intention. I am a tech in need of some help, and finding this stuff is tough. I will find my answers here or somewhere else. Frustration abounds!

[wagon]

To WayneW, people like you, I am sure, are more than welcome to ask (and receive) help -proper help. I think the big problem are persons who have zero technical experience who try to score free advice to fix the problem themselves, doing a technician out of work in the process. I expect, though, that often BECAUSE of their inexperience, they end up digging a bigger hole for themselves. As for incompentent technicians ; they do exist - I have worked with some. Sometimes a problem can LOOK like a 'bad tech' but the problem is really a dud machine (whether that be a whole model or just a particular box).

Just another 3 cents worth...

Wagon.

[Scott_Lewis]

I personally stood over these clowns, and watched them fumble and scratch their heads for days on end working on this machine. If you're offended because we cancelled the service contract, i guess i can understand the sloidarity, but that dosent make THEM right. We had 37 service calls within the first 30 days of having the equipment.

1st - Sounds like you bought a lemon of a USED copier. Did it occur to you that the previous owner unloaded this machine because of problems with it.

2nd - I hate it when some clown how knows next to nothing about what I'm working on stands over me while I'm trying to figure out a difficult problem and starts 'judging' my qualifications for working on the hardware. If I scratch my head or mutter under my breath while I'm working on a copier, I must not -really- know what I'm doing. Not every service call is routine.

3rd - It has been my experience that Fiery provides too little in the way of service documentation whether it be Ricoh Minolta or whatever.

4th - What -other- problems have you been having that may be compounding and confusing the diagnosing of this latest problem? I find it hard to believe any service tech/dealer could close out the same problem 36 times.

5th - It seems obvious to me you did NOT buy the copier from the dealer you entered into a service agreement with. That dealer should have made the copier good on his own nickel or taken it back if they sold it to you.

6th - Our company will NOT put a used machine under a maintenance agreement until the client has paid us to bring it up to par unless we sold them the machine.

7th - Since you didn't purchase the copier from the dealer you had servicing the machine, they may indeed not have been certified to work on it. This is not a simple machine. Much of what we learn is OJT. Most of the time going to a new machine involves learning little things to add to our existing knowledge. Going to a new model we will do our best. But, it isn't always smooth sailing.

Now that I got that out of my system, time to end my rant.

BTW, get a copy of "COLOR CONTROLLER E-750
SERVICE GUIDE
for digital copiers
A guide for service technicians" .

It should answer most of your questions about the controller.

[Copier_Guy]

The opinions expressed on this thread do not necessarily express the mindset of all the techs present and accounted for. Or What ever.

To get to the point, I believe this forum operates on a democratic philosophy. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HELP IF YOU DON'T WANT TO!!!
(As someone said earlier and I must give you your do!)

That being said, those that need help, bring it on. I'm sure if someone has the answer to your question, you will recieve it. Those that don't want to answer, more power to you. It's as simple as that.

If a user has the technical aptitude to fix his/her own stuff, good for him/her. If not, helping him/her will only generate more revenue for the rest of us. That's how capitalism works, I guess and I'm living the dream. The ups and the downs. I hate to lose a job, but it happens. The beautiful thing is, there's always another one around the corner.

To take it to another level, how many of you will rip apart your washing machine and try to fix it yourself if it stops working. I raise my hand because I'm guilty, but I don't want to be ostrasized by a forum full of Maytag Repair guys because I don't fix that stuff for a living. Put that in your thinktank and savor it before you start throwing bricks in a glass house.

Peace and prosperity to everyone.

[wagon]

To take it to another level, how many of you will rip apart your washing machine and try to fix it yourself if it stops working. I raise my hand because I'm guilty, but I don't want to be ostrasized by a forum full of Maytag Repair guys because I don't fix that stuff for a living. Put that in your thinktank and savor it before you start throwing bricks in a glass house.

I think there is some 'solidarity' between technical people of all persuasions. I think a problem arises when somebody with NO technical nous tries to DIY without any idea. If nothing else, they could be injured or killed if they work on something live (without any idea of what is safe!). Particularly with fuser related faults, which seem to be a recurring problem to end users who use this forum. I think copier, printer and fax techs have a pretty good idea what is safe and what is not, even if they are not familiar with a particular brand or model or even machine.

Grumble.

[WayneW]

@ ScottLewis
1) Lemon or not, we PAID for the equipment and a service contract. It was EXPECTED it to function as presented. No matter to us who or why the machine was discarded, the fact is, we bought a machine and a contract for service. Both of which have failed miserably. Hence the existing problem.









6) Your company seems to be an upfront, and honest company. One that stands behind what they sell. From what I know of this machine, I can only wish the same could be said of the dealer we mistakenly decided to go with.



Phew, that was a mouthful.


1) either the Network connection is faulty, or
2) 2)the System software is corrupt.

Since I am the network admin, and have setup this system from the ground up, and I am 100% positive there is nothing wrong with the network, I have come to the conclusion that either
A) the system software is corrupt (or disabled/ missing)
B) The X3e+ controller is fried and in need of replacement. I thought possibly the drive had failed, but diags say no, and since the drive is being seen by the system, I think software is a more likely explanation.







Good Day all, and God Bless

[Copier_Guy]

Wish I were there. I'd fix that piece of crap and put an end to the whole conflagration. (Is that even a word????)

Good luck on your mission and yes, that was a mouthful!.

[WayneW]

Wish I were there. I'd fix that piece of crap and put an end to the whole conflagration. (Is that even a word????)

Good luck on your mission and yes, that was a mouthful!.

Wish you were here too, an end to this sure would be nice.

Confounded conflagration anyway sounds like i word, i vote YES.

[yourownfree]

just a thought

Man oh man we charge $160 USD for the first hour.
You could make this site only for certified techs like Canon does or others. Suppose the person asking is just a newbie first day on the job and he doesn't want to look bad. Also you will come to a point where no matter how much you explain how to fix a problem, the person you are helping, if a customer will finally throw up his hands in disgust anyway, since their knowledge of copiers etc. is limited. They wont even know what you are talking about, even if you tried to explain in simplest terms. The other thing is, they will usually get themselves in a real fix where it will cost them more money to repair, then it would have if they called for service the first time. The other thing is we really don't know the other persons situation financially or otherwise. As long as we do what we think is right and moral then we have done our best. We have a gift, although it might have taken years to acquire, we have it to share and help, but not to do bodily harm. I wonder how many times I needed help, but people wouldn't share with me when i was thirsty? Would you not help your brother? I see there are alot of people here that do not have access to Canon support. I will not give them my support id number, but i will try and point them in the right direction. Even though that was earned as well as the lifetime of learning, it is a matter of security. We need to set a good example for others to follow, and I will bet that there are many people that look up to you for what you know and have done for them. Make sure you tell customer up front before you work on the copier what the cost will be, and have them sign it, then work on their machine. If they have a problem then tell them you have a family to feed and overhead costs, or tell them they are luck they don't have to pay $160 an hour. If it was me, i would tell them, look I will charge you a minimum of x amount to look at it and tell you how much it will cost to fix and if you agree with the work to be performed i will deduct the estimate fee from the final work or if you don't want the work done you just pay me for the estimate. We charge $35 just to look at it. remember you are worth more than customer wants to make you believe you are worth, simply to get something for nothing. If you do side jobs other than copiers, still set a goal as to what you are worth per hour or job. If you don't limit your free stuff you won't have a life. Everybody will be knocking on your door asking for help for free, you get a thankyou and no time to spend with your family. Its ok to choose wisely who you will help for free, and only you will know. These people are usually your friends, someone who will give in return when you need their help. I found out,i thought i had friends, but they were just using me. As soon as the free stuff ended so did our friendship. That was years ago, so i am wiser now.Helping people here in the forum is different than at home life. Here you don't have to answer a question if you don't want to, or answer when you can. I usually help all i can while limiting myself, so I can spend time with the people that are most important in my life, and that is my family. I see your point, but this site is for everyone who agrees with the rules set forth. I too have struggled to get where i am at, wherever that might be on the scale of 1 to 10.

[CanonHPTech]

Let me just clarify, that I don't agree with making this site a tech-to-tech only site. But let me just say the following:

There will always be new/inexperienced techs that will have a first shaky day in front of the customer.
There will always be simple techs who do not want to know how to, nor do they care to learn how to operate what they are working on.
There will always be hit-and-run techs that do the minimum work.
There will always be thorough techs that take too long and spend too much on contract machines.
There will always be a spend-thrift tech who picks customers trash, drives around the block 3 times to find a parking meter with time on it, and calls his brother-in-law who is a mechanic to get ideas of how to fix an annoying problem on their 1981 Buick Regal with 185K miles on it.

But,

There will always be new/inexperienced users who will be the new guy who doesn't know how to make a copy.
There always be the simple user who does not want to know how to operate the unit they have in their office, but uses their fists and feet to remove jams.
There will always be the know-it-all users who think they know more than the tech.
There will always be thorough users who will have a laundry list of items and ask a notebook worth of questions about a machine that they have had for 4 years to be more efficient and get their moneys worth out of their purchase.
There will always be spend-thrift users who feel as though their companies money is there own money, argue until they get free service, and ask you questions or too look at a copier or printer that is not under contract, they bought from Staples for $100, put basement drill-and-fill toner cartridges in, don't care spend even $50 to fix it but will bother you about it every time you speak to them at your cost of $50 per hour.

Thus is life. If you want reward for doing a thankless job- then go and work on a line for Nabisco and you will get free cookies.

[costd]

For my 2 cents; Although I am a "certified" tech, I am new at this and have quite a few questions - some that are DOH!!. Perhaps that is why I am ready to assist anyone that asks -HOWEVER - I do/will not respond to requests for service/parts manuals or "tech only" form/website passwords. Any manual that is available as a free download is ok - but if it is only available on a charge basis, then my providing it via a free copy is not right.

Assistance is assistance. Stealing/theft is not assistance.

Your milage may vary....