Where the rubber meets the road.

[Akitu]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or
beliefs.

Felt the need to highlight this section... Where do pedophiles come into this? What is Jerry Sandusky's opinion on the definition of philosophy?

[Chameleon]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

Jerry's philosophy is he did nothing wrong. I've been thinking though, and realized I made a mistake. While it may be true Jerry Sandusky, NAMBLA, and many other pedophiles might think of themselves as "freethinkers", that having sex with children is "progressive" and they are doing nothing wrong, it is not very kind to blame other atheists for that. The blame for what Sandusky did lies with Sandusky. I should have just brought up moral relativism and left pedophiles out of it, since everyone here agrees they are wrong they are kinda moot. Since I still object to what one group of "freethinkers" thinks I will take it up with them, not here.

[Akitu]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

Jerry's philosophy is he did nothing wrong. I've been thinking though, and realized I made a mistake. While it may be true Jerry Sandusky, NAMBLA, and many other pedophiles might think of themselves as "freethinkers", that having sex with children is "progressive" and they are doing nothing wrong, it is not very kind to blame other atheists for that. The blame for what Sandusky did lies with Sandusky. I should have just brought up moral relativism and left pedophiles out of it, since everyone here agrees they are wrong they are kinda moot. Since I still object to what one group of "freethinkers" thinks I will take it up with them, not here.

So you acknowledge within your own thread that pedophiles are as a whole considered bad, by groups of people both with and without religion? Does this not contradict just about everything you opened the thread with? People without religion still have moral beliefs and ultimately have to deal with their own conscience regarding things of an abstract nature eg. pedophilia.

Ergo - morals and acceptable behaviour are deemed as such by the masses, not by a single group, whether or not religion is tied into it.

[Darren King]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

So you acknowledge within your own thread that pedophiles are as a whole considered bad, by groups of people both with and without religion? Does this not contradict just about everything you opened the thread with? People without religion still have moral beliefs and ultimately have to deal with their own conscience regarding things of an abstract nature eg. pedophilia.

Ergo - morals and acceptable behaviour are deemed as such by the masses, not by a single group, whether or not religion is tied into it.

I was going to put it in much simpler form.......... WE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

[Akitu]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

I was going to put it in much simpler form.......... WE WON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

In the interest of trying to keep it as a discussion, I'll say that nobody "won" or "lost", but Chameleon has definitely argued for and against himself, and now says "I was incorrect" with a lengthy post about how the discussion didn't go the way he wanted it to... I can't help but wonder why, when one side can't decide which side it wants to argue for...

[Darren King]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

In the interest of trying to keep it as a discussion, I'll say that nobody "won" or "lost", but Chameleon has definitely argued for and against himself, and now says "I was incorrect" with a lengthy post about how the discussion didn't go the way he wanted it to... I can't help but wonder why, when one side can't decide which side it wants to argue for...

It seemed he thought atheism was an organized group who had no regard for other people.

[Chameleon]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

WHOA!! Hold on there a second. Read this again, this time for comprehension:

since EVERYONE HERE agrees they are wrong they are kinda moot.

What I was saying NOBODY HERE IS A PEDOPHILE so I will go argue with pedophiles. I have not changed my position, I was just informing everyone I was going to change my audience. You read something that wasn't there. For the record I still think atheism and evolution are TERRIBLE philosophies for life and have nothing good to offer!! As for atheism, how can one person say the meaning they "make up" for life have any authority over another what another person has "made up" as their purpose in life? Isn't everyone supposed to be a "free thinker"? And popular opinion sucks as a standard for right and wrong. As far as evolution's "survival of the fittest" philosophy, most traders on wall street and CEO's have it. They say "I make this much money because I'm worth it", or "I make this much money because I'm smarter than everyone else". They have the philosophy poor people are poor because they are worthless or stupid. It seems incredibly hypocritical to complain about rich people screwing poor people when they are only doing what evolution tells them, survival of the fittest. The philosophy of evolution sucks. When you say everyone has a sense of "right and wrong" that is evidence for God. You can argue that we "evolved" instincts if you want, but only as far to the survival of the species. Evolution fails to explain why we think rape is wrong. Morals are not the product of evolution or atheism but rather proof of theism. I suppose I should go and find some CEO's, rapists, or traders to argue with though since everyone HERE seems to agree rape and screwing poor people is wrong. This isn't meant to force my philosophy on people, but I want to point out the philosophy of Jesus works much better than the philosophy of evolution or atheism.

[mrwho]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

I still think atheism and evolution are TERRIBLE philosophies for life and have nothing good to offer!!

I can't avoid thinking of the connection between religion and the middle ages...

As for atheism, how can one person say the meaning they "make up" for life have any authority over another what another person has "made up" as their purpose in life?

I don't get it...

As far as evolution's "survival of the fittest" philosophy, most traders on wall street and CEO's have it. They say "I make this much money because I'm worth it", or "I make this much money because I'm smarter than everyone else". They have the philosophy poor people are poor because they are worthless or stupid. It seems incredibly hypocritical to complain about rich people screwing poor people when they are only doing what evolution tells them, survival of the fittest. The philosophy of evolution sucks.

Well, you apply the term "philosophy" to pretty much everything.

First of all, what your saying about Wall Streeters and CEOs is not evolution - is exploitation, pure and simple. There's no evolution involved. And, since you want to bring it all into the same basket, let me ask you: how can you point the finger at those bastards and tell atheism is the reason behind all that and, at the same time, completely ignore all the riches the Vatican has accumulated over the centuries, some of it possibly from dealings with nazi gold.

When you say everyone has a sense of "right and wrong" that is evidence for God.

Prove it!

You can argue that we "evolved" instincts if you want, but only as far to the survival of the species. Evolution fails to explain why we think rape is wrong.

It's the most logical explanation, since the Bible itself appears to support it.

Morals are not the product of evolution or atheism but rather proof of theism. I suppose I should go and find some CEO's, rapists, or traders to argue with though since everyone HERE seems to agree rape and screwing poor people is wrong. This isn't meant to force my philosophy on people, but I want to point out the philosophy of Jesus works much better than the philosophy of evolution or atheism.

As I said before, whatever works for you is fine. If it makes you feel all better and warm inside, by all means embrace it. But, unless you've got some hard evidence supporting your claims, you'll never be able to convince me I'm wrong.

[Darren King]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

WHOA!! Hold on there a second. Read this again, this time for comprehension: What I was saying NOBODY HERE IS A PEDOPHILE so I will go argue with pedophiles. I have not changed my position, I was just informing everyone I was going to change my audience. You read something that wasn't there. For the record I still think atheism and evolution are TERRIBLE philosophies for life and have nothing good to offer!! As for atheism, how can one person say the meaning they "make up" for life have any authority over another what another person has "made up" as their purpose in life? Isn't everyone supposed to be a "free thinker"? And popular opinion sucks as a standard for right and wrong. As far as evolution's "survival of the fittest" philosophy, most traders on wall street and CEO's have it. They say "I make this much money because I'm worth it", or "I make this much money because I'm smarter than everyone else". They have the philosophy poor people are poor because they are worthless or stupid. It seems incredibly hypocritical to complain about rich people screwing poor people when they are only doing what evolution tells them, survival of the fittest. The philosophy of evolution sucks. When you say everyone has a sense of "right and wrong" that is evidence for God. You can argue that we "evolved" instincts if you want, but only as far to the survival of the species. Evolution fails to explain why we think rape is wrong. Morals are not the product of evolution or atheism but rather proof of theism. I suppose I should go and find some CEO's, rapists, or traders to argue with though since everyone HERE seems to agree rape and screwing poor people is wrong. This isn't meant to force my philosophy on people, but I want to point out the philosophy of Jesus works much better than the philosophy of evolution or atheism.

Aaaaaaand we're back. You are discissing as if there are only two choices, as stated previously, just because one doesn't believe in God doesn't make them in agreement with evolution, and willing to step on others to get where they want to go. That is a personal choice, you can't blame that on evolution or atheism. Being "religious" doesn't make one less motivated or ambitious.
I am not an atheist, but just because one is doesn't mean they have a "phyosophy". I am not religious either, but I don't have a phylosophy. I just live my life the best I can without hurting others.

[Darren King]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

I can't avoid thinking of the connection between religion and the middle ages...



I don't get it...



Well, you apply the term "philosophy" to pretty much everything.

First of all, what your saying about Wall Streeters and CEOs is not evolution - is exploitation, pure and simple. There's no evolution involved. And, since you want to bring it all into the same basket, let me ask you: how can you point the finger at those bastards and tell atheism is the reason behind all that and, at the same time, completely ignore all the riches the Vatican has accumulated over the centuries, some of it possibly from dealings with nazi gold.




Prove it!



It's the most logical explanation, since the Bible itself appears to support it.



As I said before, whatever works for you is fine. If it makes you feel all better and warm inside, by all means embrace it. But, unless you've got some hard evidence supporting your claims, you'll never be able to convince me I'm wrong.

That is from the Old Testament, I don't think Christians use it at all.

[mrwho]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

That is from the Old Testament, I don't think Christians use it at all.

Oh, I forgot - people choose the bible version more adequate to their needs.

That's one more gripe I have with the catholic religion - how come their sacred book has more than one version? If it's supposed to tell what happened, how come they change it centuries later? Oh, of course: rape was ok back then, now it's not - let's take that part out. God had second thoughts about it, he was wrong. What can we do, he's just "all-powerful"....

[Darren King]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

Oh, I forgot - people choose the bible version more adequate to their needs.

That's one more gripe I have with the catholic religion - how come their sacred book has more than one version? If it's supposed to tell what happened, how come they change it centuries later? Oh, of course: rape was ok back then, now it's not - let's take that part out. God had second thoughts about it, he was wrong. What can we do, he's just "all-powerful"....

The real funny thing is, people talk about the Bible as if God himself wrote. lol. It was written by men with agendas. If they said rape was ok, it is because they wanted to be able to rape. My opinion.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

So Chameleon, Do you think you can tell an atheist from a theist, without discussing religious beliefs, and if the answer is yes, please explain how.

[Chameleon]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

It’s nice to see people are still interested in this topic, even if it is
getting a little heated. Since we can agree CEO’s, wall street, and I’ll
even throw in Bankers have a “BAD” philosophy and it is exploitation, I just
want to point out the origin of these concepts. Those “free thinkers” decided
making money was their purpose in life, and “survival of the fittest” is how
they go about it. It goes without saying there is no evolving going on, there
never has been, but the concept that “survival of the fittest” applies to life
originates from evolution. Calling exploitation a bad thing is a concept
that originates from the Bible “You shall not
oppress your neighbor or rob him” Leviticus 19:13. The fact that
exploitation is a bad thing sure didn’t come from an instinct to perpetuate the
species and I don’t know why any “free thinker” would have a problem with it
since they aren’t breaking any laws or hurting anyone.

I can't avoid thinking of the connection between religion and the middle ages...

I agree what the Muslims did was bad. I am not a Muslim and that is not my philosophy.

...completely ignore all the

riches the Vatican has
accumulated over the centuries, some of it possibly from dealings with nazi gold.....
That's one more gripe I have with the catholic religion - how come
their sacred book has more than one version? If it's supposed to tell what
happened, how come they change it centuries later? Oh, of course: rape was ok
back then, now it's not - let's take that part out. God had second thoughts
about it, he was wrong. What can we do, he's just
"all-powerful"....

I agree what the Cathilocs did was bad. I am not a Catholic.

It's the most logical explanation, since the Bible itself

appears to support
it.

“Appears” says it all, the bible does not support rape. Rape was punishable by death, Deuteronomy 22:23-28.

The real
funny thing is, people talk about the Bible as if God himself wrote. lol.
It was written by men with agendas. If they said rape was ok,
it is because they wanted to be able to rape. My
opinion.

Do you have any evidence of this other than your opinion?

[Chameleon]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

So Chameleon, Do you think you can tell an atheist from a theist, without discussing religious beliefs, and if the answer is yes, please explain how.

I am just going by what people say and do. I don't know the religion of any of the CEO's, traders, or Bankers. What I do know is their philosophy is terrible.