Where the rubber meets the road.

[Darren King]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

That is nothing like my argument. My argument goes like this: I call myself an independent, then proceed to vote for 99% republican and 1% democrat.

You may be thinking that, but, you ain't saying that.
An atheist, simply put, does not believe in God. You are putting the rest of those beliefs on them.
Nobody I have ever met has said to me "I am an atheist and I think pedophilia is ok because life has no meaning to me".

[mrwho]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

Chameleon, you seem to be a nice person and everything, but your attempt at trying to understand what goes inside my head is laughable at best.

[Chameleon]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

Chameleon, you seem to be a nice person and everything, but your attempt at trying to understand what goes inside my head is laughable at best.

Oh Snap! People actually thought I was trying to define what goes on in their heads?!?! That is laughable, I was defining atheISM. I guess I wasn’t as clear as I could have been. Maybe this will do it: there is a vast difference between what atheISM means, and what so-called atheiSTS believe. The same goes for Christianity. There is a vast difference between what so-calledChristians (crusaders/pedo preists) believe, and what Christianity actually means. There is nothing terribly wrong with what Christianity means, there is a great deal wrong with what some Christians do. Similarly, there is a great deal wrong with what atheism means, but not necessarily with what atheists do. Words are defined by what they mean, not by what people do.

A SKEPTIC , atheist, simply put, does not believe in God.

I fixed it for you. You attempted to redefine atheism. Atheism means without God, which has definite implications. If people do not like what atheism means, and its logical conclusion, instead of redefining a word they should call themselves something else.

[mrwho]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

So, I don't believe in any god, but since I feel my life has a meaning, then, by definition, I must believe in god, as life without god is meaningless?

[Chameleon]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

Not at all. It is one thing to say "I don't believe in God" and quite another to say "There is NO God, or without God". There are definite implications when a person says "without God". Other than personally, there are no implications to saying "I don't believe in God". Logically, there is nothing wrong with a person saying they don't believe in God, AND feel their life has meaning. I think the majority of people out there feel their life is complete the way it is and don't need religion, which I have no problem with. It's when people make the assertion "without God" or "there is No God" that I have a problem because that does have implications. I should add, admitting there is a God doesn't mean it has to be the one described in the bible. That is a matter of personal preference.

[Darren King]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

You don't need to "fix" my quote. It wasn't broken.
Definition of "atheism: the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
Definition of "belief": confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof.
There, that should clear it all up for you, Chameleon.
And not one mention of pedophiles in either definition. lol

[Chameleon]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

This is your original quote:

..not believe IN God.[/B]

..belief that there is NO God.

doctrine that there is no God and moral relativism. So we stay on the
same page here, this is not about atheiSTS specifically, but the
philosophy of atheISM. Based on the other threads, I think we can all
agree theism can be usednothing really actually matterswill be. I
just wanted to point out that is a serious problem with the philosophy of atheISM,
anything can be justified by atheism since there is no line to be
crossed, whereas, with the philosophy of theism not everything can be
justified, there are many things that do cross lines.

[mrwho]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

AtheISM can be used to justify
ANYTHING. Pedophiles, rapists, thieves, serial killers can all justify their
actions by saying there is no God

That's a moot argument, as the existence of god can also be user - and many times it is -to justify all that and much more.

[Chameleon]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

That's a moot argument, as the existence of god can also be user - and many times it is -to justify all that and much more.

That might be moot concerning murder. Which is why I brought up pedophiles.
NAMBLA and other pedophiles are using the DOCTRINE of atheism and evolution to justify their actions. Until you produce a Theistic DOCTRINE that justifies pedophiles, that argument is not moot.

[mrwho]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

That might be moot concerning murder. Which is why I brought up pedophiles.
NAMBLA and other pedophiles are using the DOCTRINE of atheism and evolution to justify their actions. Until you produce a Theistic DOCTRINE that justifies pedophiles, that argument is not moot.

Dude, there's not such a thing as an atheist doctrine - that's as silly as claiming the existence of an atheist bible! You're treating atheism as a religion - atheism is the absence of religion, of any kind.

[mrwho]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

Going back on the thread a little:

with the philosophy of atheISM,
anything can be justified by atheism since there is no line to be
crossed

No line? What about laws? What about our conscience (surprisingly, atheist do have a conscience)? What about doing what we feel is right?

Again, if the only thing stopping you from doing any harm is religion, then you're a dangerous person. Because when religion tells you to do something (like, perhaps, offering a human sacrifice), you'll most probably do it.

[Akitu]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

Going back on the thread a little:



No line? What about laws? What about our conscience (surprisingly, atheist do have a conscience)? What about doing what we feel is right?

Again, if the only thing stopping you from doing any harm is religion, then you're a dangerous person. Because when religion tells you to do something (like, perhaps, offering a human sacrifice), you'll most probably do it.

You realize why I stopped trying to get any part of a discussion in edgewise? We have one person advocating both sides pulling irrelevant facts and data out of thin air and basing it all on a biased opinion that without religion, there is no morality in the world. He can argue for and against himself and never win!

Once the discussion actually gets some logic in it, it may be easier for someone else to add their two cents, but in the meantime - I support your attempt to take on a human wall of ignorance. Because pedophiles.

[Darren King]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

doctrine that there is no God and moral relativism. So we stay on the
same page here, this is not about atheiSTS specifically, but the
philosophy of atheISM. Based on the other threads, I think we can all
agree theism can be usednothing really actually matterswill be. I
just wanted to point out that is a serious problem with the philosophy of atheISM,
anything can be justified by atheism since there is no line to be
crossed, whereas, with the philosophy of theism not everything can be
justified, there are many things that do cross lines.

Really??? I said, Really??? If I say I don't believe in Santa Claus, it means I think he doesn't exist. It doesn't mean I think he exists but I refuse to admit it.
I don't understand your need to bring God, and ones belief in Him or not, into a discussion about pedophiles. Maybe you should take your questions to certain Catholic priests. They may be able to answer them for you. They can likely talk on both sides of the question.
As for atheism, whether I am an atheist or not ( i'm not saying I am) doesn't make me any more or less moral. One is no more or less likely to be a pedophile.
As mrwho stated, God, and religion in general, have been used to justify some horrendous things. Most wars have one religion or another to blame for their occurance.

[Chameleon]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

aaaaand we're back to discussing atheiSTS. I had hoped to discuss the "philosophy" of atheISM, things like "where did we come from?", "What is the purpose of life?", "What happens after we die?", "why are pedophiles wrong?" You know, philosophyn. pl.
1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means
and moral self-discipline.

2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles
of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than
empirical methods.

3. A system of thought based on or involving such
inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.

4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or
beliefs.

5. The disciplines presented in university curriculums
of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.

6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics,
aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.

7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular
field or activity; an underlying theory: an original
philosophy of advertising.

8. A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.

[Darren King]

Re: Where the rubber meets the road.

aaaaand we're back to discussing atheiSTS. I had hoped to discuss the "philosophy" of atheISM, things like "where did we come from?", "What is the purpose of life?", "What happens after we die?", "why are pedophiles wrong?" You know, philosophyn. pl.
1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means
and moral self-discipline.

2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles
of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than
empirical methods.

3. A system of thought based on or involving such
inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.

4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or
beliefs.

5. The disciplines presented in university curriculums
of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.

6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics,
aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.

7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular
field or activity; an underlying theory: an original
philosophy of advertising.

8. A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.

Without atheISTS there would be no atheISM. They are kind of inseperable. Same as without religion there would be no religious fanatics.