Can any laser printer/copier get a cost per page as low as inkjets?

[aab1]

You don't need to be a genius to understand why manufacturers don't want you to refill. The 250 000 pages I printed without paying a single penny to HP would have made them about $25 000 if I bought HP cartridges, instead I paid $1000 to a refill company that provided me the same print quality I would have gotten from HP for at least 25 times cheaper. Plus the printheads which HP claim have a 42 000 page life last 60 000 pages with the refill ink.

I also only bought remanufactured cartridges for my Canon and did 22 000 prints in 2 weeks and the print quality is identical to the genuine cartridges. I've also just refilled the black remanufactured cartridge yesterday and did a few thousand more prints on it with still the same quality as originals. The original Canon cartridges are an absurd $700, I get HP (it uses the same cartridges as an HP printer) remanufactured cartridges for $150 where they replace the drum and every part of the cartridge other than the physical case. Plus the remanufactured ones are garanteed, I bought 8 so far with perfect results, and if any was bad they replace it for free.

I will NEVER buy the overpriced $700 Canon cartridges, ever, when I get the exact same result with $150 cartridges which I can refill for $50.

No manufacturer recommends refilled cartridges for laser or inkjet, period.

Admittedly, some are positively excellent and are almost identical to the originals with various parts being replaced, not just adding toner or ink.

Some, on the other hand, are absolute abortions. Years ago, I had a customer who bought refilled laser cartridges for their fax, and the prints came out negative, as the toner had a reverse charge.

I have also heard of so-called "salesmen", who carry a cordless drill, drill a hole, shake out the waste, plug it, drill a hole in the other end, refill with his bogus junk, and then hand the cartridge back to the customer.

Because of these extreme variations, it's virtually impossible to tell what you're getting.

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

No manufacturer recommends refilled cartridges for laser or inkjet, period.

Admittedly, some are positively excellent and are almost identical to the originals with various parts being replaced, not just adding toner or ink.

Some, on the other hand, are absolute abortions. Years ago, I had a customer who bought refilled laser cartridges for their fax, and the prints came out negative, as the toner had a reverse charge.

I have also heard of so-called "salesmen", who carry a cordless drill, drill a hole, shake out the waste, plug it, drill a hole in the other end, refill with his bogus junk, and then hand the cartridge back to the customer.

Because of these extreme variations, it's virtually impossible to tell what you're getting.

There is a LOT of junk out there. I sell remanufactured (not the same as refilling at all) cartridges to customers. But I only do it with all in one cartridge systems and there's only two vendors in the world that I like and trust.

I think using a generic in general should void a warranty. If anything there should have to be a qualified generic standard certification.

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

You don't need to be a genius to understand why manufacturers don't want you to refill. The 250 000 pages I printed without paying a single penny to HP would have made them about $25 000 if I bought HP cartridges, instead I paid $1000 to a refill company that provided me the same print quality I would have gotten from HP for at least 25 times cheaper. Plus the printheads which HP claim have a 42 000 page life last 60 000 pages with the refill ink.

I also only bought remanufactured cartridges for my Canon and did 22 000 prints in 2 weeks and the print quality is identical to the genuine cartridges. I've also just refilled the black remanufactured cartridge yesterday and did a few thousand more prints on it with still the same quality as originals. The original Canon cartridges are an absurd $700, I get HP (it uses the same cartridges as an HP printer) remanufactured cartridges for $150 where they replace the drum and every part of the cartridge other than the physical case. Plus the remanufactured ones are garanteed, I bought 8 so far with perfect results, and if any was bad they replace it for free.

I will NEVER buy the overpriced $700 Canon cartridges, ever, when I get the exact same result with $150 cartridges which I can refill for $50.

See you lucked out and got an apparently good vendor. That's the risk, is it a good vendor or not. When it isn't things can go really bad and get costly...not necessarily a bad thing for a technician...

[KenB]

There is a LOT of junk out there. I sell remanufactured (not the same as refilling at all) cartridges to customers. But I only do it with all in one cartridge systems and there's only two vendors in the world that I like and trust.

I think using a generic in general should void a warranty. If anything there should have to be a qualified generic standard certification.

The manufacturers tried to do that a few years ago ( I know that Canon was one of them), but failed.

From what I understand, they can only not cover what is damaged by the competitive supplies, and not the entire machine, as was their original intent.

Aab1, if your method works for you, good for you, you're one of the lucky ones. We all understand dollars and cents.

However, I'm sure that any tech on this site who has been doing this for any length of time can tell you horror stories of bogus supplies that have done thousands of dollars worth of damage to machines (blown boards, power supplies, potential sensors, etc...), and have either charged the customer, or have far more likely, eaten the cost of the repair.

Unauthorized, unapproved supplies are the nemesis of any of us in the repair industry.

[tmaze01]

hhmmm..""WAIT A MINUTE, IS THIS THE GUY THAT aodtech WAS TALKING ABOUT?"" oh..ok....BTW THE FEEDBACK YOU HAVE RECEIVED FROM rickflair,rrodgers,kingpd@businessprint and mrspock (WHICH I HAVE READ ) IS GOOD INFO,/DETAILED..ITS GOOD STUFF!!! how ever you may find the ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION(S)(SS)(SSS)(SSSS) ...oohh .. lets say """""WITH IN YOUR COMMENTS""""/ QUESTIONS..

hey kingpd, YEAH, ..WELL THEN ...HOW COME 91 octane gas costs more per gallon then regular 89 octane?? if i am paying the same amount.. (it just doesnt make sense ,,, i mean it is going in the same gas tank) ,,

[Stirton.M]

A great many of Konica Minolta colour MFPs these days are being sold with where cost per copy black is a fraction of a cent per page and full colour ranges from a couple pennies up to a dime or so...that end cost really has a lot to do with the deal that the sales guy, lease company and the user come up with through their deal. IU replacement is now rated in the 100K+ ranges, toner cartridges the same. And of course, the CPC really makes a difference if you go beyond that 5% you tout. Especially if you go into full page photo and not be subject to smearing or other imperfections well known to be the mainstay of multipass printhead solutions, not to mention what liquid does to paper, or the fact that the ink is very sensitive to UV and will fade over time.

That said, if it works for you, great. But this site is not for your rants on the merits of what you are able to do. Go to an inkjet forum and make you case...

In the meantime, the rest of us who know the industry can carry on working on real printers and presses that can go far beyond the mere capabilities of your measly inkjet. Can it do 13x19? 11x17? No. POS WOT!

[aab1]

In the meantime, the rest of us who know the industry can carry on working on real printers and presses that can go far beyond the mere capabilities of your measly inkjet. Can it do 13x19? 11x17? No. POS WOT!

Look, you're comparing my $600 inkjet to multi thousand dollar laser printers, if you make similar price printer comparisons inkjet will always beat laser in both print speed and cost per page.

So you want to compare an inkjet to a $25 000 laser copier? Well here's a $25 000 inkjet that does up to 11x17, and 150 pages/minute, how about you find me a laser that fast and with such a low cost per page for $25 000... oh wait, there aren't any.

This link is set to start the video at 2:18 where it shows print speed, bring it back to the beginning if you want to see it from the start:

YouTube - Worlds Fastest Full Color Copier/Inkjet printer Riso ComColor

[KenB]

An impressive machine, no doubt.

I get into tons of print shops and repro centers, and I can honestly say that I have never seen anything but laser devices, although in all fairness, I can't say I was actively looking for anything else.

My company used to carry Riso, but dumped them some years ago.

I guess my question is, if inkjets are so good, why are their numbers so low? Why aren't they proliferated amongst print shops and repro centers? There must be a reason.

I am involved in competitive bids almost daily, and normally I'm informed as to what we are competing against. The competition is always laser based equipment.

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

hhmmm..""WAIT A MINUTE, IS THIS THE GUY THAT aodtech WAS TALKING ABOUT?"" oh..ok....BTW THE FEEDBACK YOU HAVE RECEIVED FROM rickflair,rrodgers,kingpd@businessprint and mrspock (WHICH I HAVE READ ) IS GOOD INFO,/DETAILED..ITS GOOD STUFF!!! how ever you may find the ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION(S)(SS)(SSS)(SSSS) ...oohh .. lets say """""WITH IN YOUR COMMENTS""""/ QUESTIONS..

hey kingpd, YEAH, ..WELL THEN ...HOW COME 91 octane gas costs more per gallon then regular 89 octane?? if i am paying the same amount.. (it just doesnt make sense ,,, i mean it is going in the same gas tank) ,,

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but the theory would be that a higher octane has higher performance and if people want that then they have to pay a premium. The debatable question is does higher octane guarantee higher performance. The answer lies in both yes and no. Some cars require it and some cars don't but were made to function fine on lower octane. In fact some cars don't perform better on higher octane, while some will get damaged without the higher octane...

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

Look, you're comparing my $600 inkjet to multi thousand dollar laser printers, if you make similar price printer comparisons inkjet will always beat laser in both print speed and cost per page.

So you want to compare an inkjet to a $25 000 laser copier? Well here's a $25 000 inkjet that does up to 11x17, and 150 pages/minute, how about you find me a laser that fast and with such a low cost per page for $25 000... oh wait, there aren't any.

This link is set to start the video at 2:18 where it shows print speed, bring it back to the beginning if you want to see it from the start:

YouTube - Worlds Fastest Full Color Copier/Inkjet printer Riso ComColor

I do have to comment on the Riso ComColors. I've known people who have had them and hated them. They quality is not good for marketing, printshops, or anyone that needs anything of quality.

Now Riso does admit that they are for cheap fast color where quality isn't the main factor. Everything has its place in this world I guess.

[aab1]

I believe the reasons inkjets are rarely used in large volume printing are:
-It's a much newer technology than electrostatic printing
-Most people still think laser costs less per page (as proven by this forum)
-Large business inkjets are rare, I think only HP makes them in models under $1000, and for big ones there's Riso and maybe one other brand I think has something similar

I'm quite sure over the next few years big high speed inkjets will get more popular.

There's also Memjet that is working on selling a 70-100 ppm inkjet for $200, but it's not available yet although there are prototypes and videos you can see on youtube:

An impressive machine, no doubt.

I get into tons of print shops and repro centers, and I can honestly say that I have never seen anything but laser devices, although in all fairness, I can't say I was actively looking for anything else.

My company used to carry Riso, but dumped them some years ago.

I guess my question is, if inkjets are so good, why are their numbers so low? Why aren't they proliferated amongst print shops and repro centers? There must be a reason.

I am involved in competitive bids almost daily, and normally I'm informed as to what we are competing against. The competition is always laser based equipment.

[KenB]

I do have to comment on the Riso ComColors. I've known people who have had them and hated them. They quality is not good for marketing, printshops, or anyone that needs anything of quality.

Now Riso does admit that they are for cheap fast color where quality isn't the main factor. Everything has its place in this world I guess.

Good point.

Something else to ponder... EFI makes Fiery print controllers for nearly every manufacturer. Do they make them for inkjets? I don't think so - they only talk to laser engines.

[aab1]

I forgot, HP also has bigger business inkjets that are a much better quality than the ComColor but "only" 70 ppm.

Good point.

Something else to ponder... EFI makes Fiery print controllers for nearly every manufacturer. Do they make them for inkjets? I don't think so - they only talk to laser engines.

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

Good point.

Something else to ponder... EFI makes Fiery print controllers for nearly every manufacturer. Do they make them for inkjets? I don't think so - they only talk to laser engines.

You have a very good point as well.

There's really three technological contenders. Inkjet, Laser, and Offset Presses. All three of them are making innovations trying to get more marketshare. Perhaps someday, all three will be on a more level playing field...it's hard to say.

It used to be that commercial printers griped at the new high end digital toner devices because on heavy stocks or when they'd have to do folding or booklet covers, the toner would crack. So the toner based manufacturers are resolving that issue with new machines, and advanced toners, and that's also why there are machines called "creasers."

In all three technology cases, one thing is similiar, they're making them all to be more consumer replacable/repairable.

[JustManuals]

Don't feed the trolls