Any RightFax fans out there?

[KenB]

Howdy,

OK, I realize I may be reaching a bit, but I figure it's worth a shot.

I just set up a new RightFax server, all latest and greatest. (10.6 with FP3).

The customer (an attorney, of course) frequently sends to a government agency, with a number of locations in Ohio. They are all in different area codes, but we think they all have the same equipment. We are trying to find out just what type of fax setup they have.

RightFax is using a Dialogic (formerly Brooktrout) Gateway 304 (4 line gateway.)

All other locations can be sent to just fine, but not these 4 or 5. The call never makes it through handshaking, so RightFax never sees the call as being answered.

I can can send from the Ricoh MP171s in their office with no problem, using the same lines.

I thought the days of fax incompatibility were over, but perhaps not.

Has anyone seen any issues with these?

I know, I know, fax is dead, but not in the legal and medical worlds, and this customer deals almost exclusively with both.

I have a ticket open with the manufacturer, but so far I've gotten little insight from them.

Thanks!

[Iowatech]

Re: Any RightFax fans out there?

Are there any machine specific fax error codes that you can share?
If not, are they using Rightfax on a VOIP phone system? Because it sounds a little like the problem sites are using VOIP systems that are not standards complaint.
Or could the offending places be using old and cheap fax machines that don't properly understand the modern fax language? Sounds a little like that could be the case as well.
Sorry if this was a waste of time.

[KenB]

Re: Any RightFax fans out there?

Not a waste of time at all. Thanks for replying!

The customer is using 4 POTS lines, but RightFax sends the fax via VoIP to the gateway, then the gateway sends out to the PSTN over the POTS lines. Wireshark allows the VoIP packets to be analyzed and displayed. It shows that the session never even makes it through handshaking, it fails even before training.

Im trying to find out just what the receiving side is using, but I have a hunch that is a software based solution, rather than an MFP or fax machine.

What's odd is that I can send just fine from another Rightfax server at another location, but that customer is using a different model Rightfax gateway (the gateway 2100).

Tomorrow the customer is having their telecom provider come on site to check the lines. It could be that for some reason the call quality is just bad enough to make these questionable connections croak.

I will post back when I hear more.

Thanks again.

[slimslob]

Re: Any RightFax fans out there?

If the what you are saying about WireShark showing a failure, the problem might be at the gateway.

[Iowatech]

Re: Any RightFax fans out there?

I didn't think about the phone lines. A noisy or poorly constructed phone line could indeed cause that.

[KenB]

Re: Any RightFax fans out there?

The telco was out today to "check" the lines.

They found some minor crosstalk between them (water had corroded them a bit), but even after correction the problem persists. Other than that, they found no issues.

I am trying to find another location with the same setup to send to these same numbers from.

Again, the issue only pertains to these few locations.

We have played with and tweaked all sorts of settings on the gateway, and nothing even helped.

i found it hard to believe that the vendor did not have the same model gateway to test with, but they claim they don't.

We press on....

Thanks.

[Iowatech]

Re: Any RightFax fans out there?

I don't know how much this will help, and it kind of sounds like you probably have already tried this, but if it is possible turn off ECM on the MFD.
If that changes anything, that would seem to indicate that there is equipment in the system that isn't modern fax standards compliant. Most likely at the remote locations that are causing the problems.
It's actually quite important that all of the equipment and systems on the entire faxing network are exactly up to the current standards for reliable fax communication to take place.

[KenB]

Re: Any RightFax fans out there?

No MFDs at either end, both are fax servers.

i don't think either has a switch for Error Creation... I mean Correction. Mode.

[KenB]

Re: Any RightFax fans out there?

I was able to find another customer with the same RightFax server and gateway, and he was nice enough to try sending to one of the problem numbers.

Same problem!

This indicates a compatability issue, I would say. ( I still don't know what's on the other end just yet.)

One interesting point: The problem locations all answer on the very first ring.

I checked with one of our senior fax techs today, and he had an issue not too long ago where that was the problem, although it was between two MFPs.

The customer could not receive into his new Ricoh copier, yet his Canon worked fine. The only difference between them was the number of rings; the Canon rang twice before answering, but the Ricoh answered right away. Once he changed the number of rings on the Ricoh, it started receiving from the one problem location without a hitch. It's like the call never sets up properly, if that's an accurate term.

Monday I will attempt to simulate this by changing the Ricoh MP201 in my office to answer immediately, then attempt to send to it from the RightFax customer. If it fails, we will then know that the Gateway 304 doesn't like immediate answers, and we can go back to the manufacturer with that.

Here's hoping that's the issue!

[slimslob]

Re: Any RightFax fans out there?

I was able to find another customer with the same RightFax server and gateway, and he was nice enough to try sending to one of the problem numbers.

Same problem!

This indicates a compatability issue, I would say. ( I still don't know what's on the other end just yet.)

One interesting point: The problem locations all answer on the very first ring.

I checked with one of our senior fax techs today, and he had an issue not too long ago where that was the problem, although it was between two MFPs.

The customer could not receive into his new Ricoh copier, yet his Canon worked fine. The only difference between them was the number of rings; the Canon rang twice before answering, but the Ricoh answered right away. Once he changed the number of rings on the Ricoh, it started receiving from the one problem location without a hitch. It's like the call never sets up properly, if that's an accurate term.

Monday I will attempt to simulate this by changing the Ricoh MP201 in my office to answer immediately, then attempt to send to it from the RightFax customer. If it fails, we will then know that the Gateway 304 doesn't like immediate answers, and we can go back to the manufacturer with that.

Here's hoping that's the issue!

This is a problem with some phone systems on out going calls. The system pauses briefly to see if there are any additional digits being dialed. During that pause, no out going audio is sent. If the call is answered too soon, the calling machine hears the answer tone and starts training before the audio starts going out. It was a problem for dial in dictation systems. There is a sequence of keys that tells the phone system that not to pause. Check with the phone system people.

[KenB]

Re: Any RightFax fans out there?

This is a problem with some phone systems on out going calls. The system pauses briefly to see if there are any additional digits being dialed. During that pause, no out going audio is sent. If the call is answered too soon, the calling machine hears the answer tone and starts training before the audio starts going out. It was a problem for dial in dictation systems. There is a sequence of keys that tells the phone system that not to pause. Check with the phone system people.

While that may work, it would be a really hard sell for the following reasons:

1. Their MFPs have no problem
2. The Fax Appliance (mini fax server) we previously had in place worked OK
3. Another Gateway 308, 300 miles away, had the same issue
and
4. 2 RightFax Gateway 2100s, at different locations, have no issues.

If my test works, meaning that my MP201 fails with no ring count, that will strongly indicate a problem with the Gateway 304/308.

There are about a bazillion settings available, perhaps we can find out from the manufacturer just what to change. If we get the proverbial deer in the headlights look from them, the Gateway 304 is out.

[KenB]

Re: Any RightFax fans out there?

Issue found, but not yet corrected.

Turns out it's a firmware flash for the gateway. When the vendor finally got to test it on the same model gateway, they did not notice that theirs was 2 versions higher.

A senior tech saw that, and backed the firmware down to our level. Once he did that, he had the same issues.

Now that we have the new firmware, it's just a matter of finding the best time to deploy it. There are several steps to go through, and one false move will brick the gateway, a chance we are NOT willing to take.

Almost there.

BTW... We are using an alternative method to send to the problem numbers while we work on getting the issue corrected.