Is "First page out" spec on laser printers a fraud?

[Fer]

Yes it's a fraud is just to look great on paper. On the bigger copiers they programmed the firmware to let a single page copy come out face up instead of face down. Since u don;t need sorting on a single copy, nobody bothers.

I does give u a faster page out, because copier doesn't have to flip over the page.

Why, u may ask. Well, because in big million dollar tenders, buyers without any clue about copiers and printing just put the specs side by side, and take the best. Those specs don't mean shit IRL, they won't tell u if a copier is fast, reliable and have flashy output.

The ironicle part even is those big dollar companies, want to save on paper so they set alle drivers for duplex printing by default. We set the papertray's on "image side priority" for company paper. Average first out increases dramatically. Who cares?? Nobody the deal is signed already....

[peterepeat]

I've been doing this for about 5 years, using only an inkjet until 2 weeks ago, it's not my main income source but makes me a bit of extra cash and I have many repeat customers since several years.

Look, I had like 10 HPs over the past years and HP have always been great,

It was YOU who said that. Knucklehead.

And if you think I'm that stupid for using an HP business inkjet for my printing service, how is it that my prices per color page are TEN TIMES CHEAPER than major copy centers? Not a single copy center using laser printers can get anywhere near as low prices per page as I do because laser printers cost infinitely more in toner and replacement parts. $200 of ink in my HP makes over 50 000 prints and the only parts to replace are 2 printheads every 60 000 prints for under $50 each. That's 0.5 cents a color page, no laser printer in the world can print for this cheap.

Tell us, oh wise oracle...Why dou YOU think nobody uses inkjet for production printing other than you and 3rd-graders?

[Stirton.M]

Must suck to use an inferior machine and have to wait so long to get a first page out...

Perhaps if you went with the larger machines, many of which would not subject you to that long wait, things would be better?

I have to laugh at the counts you speak of...250K in three years on a little HP printer is nothing. I work on machines that can do that in a matter of a couple months. Some in a matter of a couple weeks. And none of the machines I service have a first copy out period that exceeds a few seconds after the job has spooled through to the controller.

The CPC that those large print shops pay goes a lot further than merely paying for consumables and parts. You no doubt have to service your HPs on your own dime. That is fine, since there is not a whole lot to an HP printer relative to maintenance, considering the print volume you speak of. The cost of a toner cartridge is indeed cheap on a machine that has a low TCO like HPs generally do.

But HPs are meant to be, for the most part, disposable units. They were not built for longevity, and service on them is limited to a few basic items like replacing the image cartridge, maybe the fuser from time to time.

Compared to a full MFP like a KM C652, a lifespan measured to be about 7 million, with a warmup time of 2 seconds, CPC on black less than a penny, a few cents for full colour, 1800DPI @ 65 ppm with multiple finishing options and weight capabilities, capable of multiple format scan output along with faxing options, quite frankly, I look at an HP with bile building in my throat.

The customer who takes on one of these pays for my service to maintain and support the machine over the life of that machine. The toner is included in that maintenance. ALL the parts are included. So if I have to replace a control panel, printer control board, motor or a measly preseparation tire, all of that is covered in the cost of ownership. No extra costs. Oh, pardon me. They pay extra for staples.

Can you do hole punching with your HP, can you select between 2,3 or 4 hole choice on the fly? How about stapling? How about saddle stitching and folding? Can it scan to email, computer, memory stick, print from ALL those sources including internet print?

Your costs are low because you are cheap. Plain and simple as that.

But beware, companies like the one I work for are striving to put people like you out of business by providing vastly superior hardware with vastly superior capabilities to those offices that previously went to cheap outfits like yours when colour prints were needed. The days of Kinkos and Office Depot having a competitive edge are going the way of the Dodo. Only large print shops that fill the needs for press related publication will survive the fallout, and I can guarantee you this...none of those large shops owns little inkjets or little HPs for the purpose of printing documents for their customers.

[Brian8506]

Time to stop replying to this guy. He's just playing around here wasting our valuable time. Just asking about first page time knowing full well thats from ready condition is a perfect example. I'm out of this one.

[KenB]

Even though he admitted that he learned from our numerous replies, I lost all technical respect for him when he asked about recycling waste toner.

He has come to a site which is dedicated to dogs to brag about his cat. (Sorry, Blackcat and StirtonM. )

If he wants to ask intelligent questions and make worthwhile remarks about what the rest of us are all dedicated to, he is more than welcome here - after all, that's what this site is all about.

If he wants to make a mockery of Canon, and the industry as a whole, I say ignore him, or ban him if it gets to be too much.

[aab1]

I NEVER said I went through 10 HPs in 5 years, I said I started my printing service 5 years ago, I still had printers for home/office use before I started my printing service.

Nobody uses inkjet for copy centers because most people are stuck with the completely false idea that inkjet costs more per page.

And many companies use the $25 000 inkjets that run at 150 ppm which is way cheaper and faster than laser printers.

I've been doing this for about 5 years, using only an inkjet until 2 weeks ago, it's not my main income source but makes me a bit of extra cash and I have many repeat customers since several years.

Look, I had like 10 HPs over the past years and HP have always been great,

It was YOU who said that. Knucklehead.

And if you think I'm that stupid for using an HP business inkjet for my printing service, how is it that my prices per color page are TEN TIMES CHEAPER than major copy centers? Not a single copy center using laser printers can get anywhere near as low prices per page as I do because laser printers cost infinitely more in toner and replacement parts. $200 of ink in my HP makes over 50 000 prints and the only parts to replace are 2 printheads every 60 000 prints for under $50 each. That's 0.5 cents a color page, no laser printer in the world can print for this cheap.

Tell us, oh wise oracle...Why dou YOU think nobody uses inkjet for production printing other than you and 3rd-graders?

[aab1]

250 K in three years is nothing because I never even advertised my printing business at all, so it's not bad considering that. I'm considering advertising now and growing the business.

About the cost per page, we've already established in another thread that no toner based machine in the world can approach the 0.4 cents per color page (less than 0.1 cents for black) I get with inkjet. The only part to replace is 2 printheads at under $50 each and they last 60 000 prints.

Even if I had to replace the printer every 250 000 prints (and I'm quite sure it's going to last at least another 100 000 prints minimum, likely another 250 000), it would still cost less than printing on any toner based machine.

Also since this is an inkjet there is no warmup time, it starts the second I've hit print at up to 35 ppm.

"Can it scan to email, computer, memory stick, print from ALL those sources including internet print?"

Yes to all (and not just memory stick, it has like 7 card readers for all memory card formats ever invented plus a USB port for USB storage devices, both to scan to them or print from them). About folding and punching, this is a $600 copier, so of course not, but $25 000 inkjets of course do all this and run at 150 ppm.

I have to laugh at the counts you speak of...250K in three years on a little HP printer is nothing.

The CPC that those large print shops pay goes a lot further than merely paying for consumables and parts. You no doubt have to service your HPs on your own dime. That is fine, since there is not a whole lot to an HP printer relative to maintenance, considering the print volume you speak of. The cost of a toner cartridge is indeed cheap on a machine that has a low TCO like HPs generally do.

Can you do hole punching with your HP, can you select between 2,3 or 4 hole choice on the fly? How about stapling? How about saddle stitching and folding? Can it scan to email, computer, memory stick, print from ALL those sources including internet print?

Your costs are low because you are cheap. Plain and simple as that.

[aab1]

Look, this Canon is my first laser printer ever, I didn't even know laser printers made waste toner before. I also know several printer makers have a mechanism that "pumps" the waste toner back into the main toner bin, so considering that I didn't think my question that stupid. Now I know and won't recycle the waste toner.

And I didn't come to brag about my inkjet, I came to ask questions about my new canon laser copier to better understand it as this is my first laser printer.

And I did not want to make a mockery of canon, although like I said before their 99 page limit in the driver software is infuriating as it has no reason to exist, I like the machine itself other than the fact that the scanner doesn't do double sided scanning like every HP machine does. As I've said this small laser copier is an intro to laser printing for me and if it goes well I will get one made for much higher volume printing in a few months and that will probably cost half the cost per page, making it possibly as little as 3 times more expensive than inkjet rather than the 6 times more expensive my canon now costs to run with compatible supplies and refills.

Even though he admitted that he learned from our numerous replies, I lost all technical respect for him when he asked about recycling waste toner.

He has come to a site which is dedicated to dogs to brag about his cat. (Sorry, Blackcat and StirtonM. )

If he wants to ask intelligent questions and make worthwhile remarks about what the rest of us are all dedicated to, he is more than welcome here - after all, that's what this site is all about.

If he wants to make a mockery of Canon, and the industry as a whole, I say ignore him, or ban him if it gets to be too much.