IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

**teckat** · 02-13-2012, 09:40 PM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

replace Motor Driver PCB Assembly

**Desert Rat** · 02-14-2012, 07:31 PM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

Teckat,
You have always given me good advice in the past, but I do not see the connection here.
The motors are working it is feeding, it is just feeding to many sheets. I am not sure
how the motor driver board could cause it to feed up to 5 sheets at one time.
I am going to stop by this account next and put the spring back in the middle
and see if I can take the torque limiter apart. My thought is that it must be
slipping. I do not have another one available today, so may be I will swap it
with tray 4 the least used tray.
Also I think I will take a ream of paper with me just to see.

Thanks

DR

**charm5496** · 02-14-2012, 07:55 PM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

staples paper is about as cheap as you can get. With that in mind what is the shape of your sponge roller in? Is it concave and flat on one side from sitting too long? Did you install it correctly when you swapped the cradles? There is a 'large' and 'small' end on these sponge rollers so they can fit in multiple decks with different size pins on the shafts.

**Desert Rat** · 02-14-2012, 09:43 PM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

Charm 5496,
I installed new oem rollers 25K ago. The end with the smaller openning for the pin is toward the back.
I will double check the book and make sure it is correct.
I am on site now and here are some #s between jams in the order in which they occured.

230,357,28,27,148,30,57,12,29,309,10,41,40,36,17,4 07,39,226,391 end.

My last call was on Feb 2 2012 They have done alittle over 2K copies.
I see I already swapped the torque limiter with tray 3 last Aug. 2011

The customer told me after a number of jams they fan the paper.
I showed them a way to fan each sheet as opposed to cut lines (4-5sheets).
Hold the paper in both hand with hand open to let the paper move but not
fall. Put a bow in the center and pinch both ends. Flaten out
while still pinching. You will see an air bubble in between each sheet. Twist the
ream a little to separate each page.
When I walked in before doing anything I fanned the paper this way and ran 2 runs of
100 each without any jams.
That is what make me think it is paper.

Comments?

DR

**Herrmann** · 02-14-2012, 10:40 PM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

Just to sort out a paper problem...did you try to change default cassette to deck two and see, what happens? does the same problem occour?

**teckat** · 02-15-2012, 12:09 AM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

Originally posted by Desert Rat

Teckat,
You have always given me good advice in the past, but I do not see the connection here.
The motors are working it is feeding, it is just feeding to many sheets. I am not sure
how the motor driver board could cause it to feed up to 5 sheets at one time.
I am going to stop by this account next and put the spring back in the middle
and see if I can take the torque limiter apart. My thought is that it must be
slipping. I do not have another one available today, so may be I will swap it
with tray 4 the least used tray.
Also I think I will take a ream of paper with me just to see.

Thanks

DR

MOTOR DRIVER controls deck solenoid action for pick-up/release
if the deck p/u solenoid does not move the pick up roller away from paper feed > to feed roller/separation -could cause double feed ???

thoughts welcome-----------------

The pickup motor (M11, M12, M24) is a stepping motor, adopted to ensure good separation
and high durability.
motor.JPG

**DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS** · 02-15-2012, 08:28 AM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

As you pointed out, you could actually be '' fighting a paper quality'' problem. So you are better off if you try to explore that possibility and rule it out as a possible cause. Multiple paper feeds, is usually a symptom of worn out separation pads or tires, if not then paper quality e.g low grain age or gram age, or when paper is too smooth , hence producing little friction at the points of contact OR even the MOISTURE content in the paper.

Try using paper of known working, good quality. This problem is very common in my area here where the market is flooded with all types of junk papers, due poor regulation of consumer goods. We experience it everyday.

**teckat** · 02-15-2012, 03:31 PM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

have seen issues on decks/cassettes where PU rollers stay down and force a continuous feed into the feed roller/sep roller unit --- mimics a paper quality or sep issue

**Desert Rat** · 02-15-2012, 05:22 PM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

Teckat,
I see how this could cause the problem I am having with this unit. I should have
checked the diagram before my post. I assumed the motor driver bd would only
control the motors.
I am also thinking that would be an observable symptom.
Next call I will see if I can observe this happening.
The sheets I have removed under the drum, were stuck together, with only about .25" of offset.
The bottom sheet extended beyond the top sheet by about the .25" mentioned. The next sheet
after that was a single sheet. If the p/u solenoid stayed on I should be able to see this on the
I/O screen, right? If it is a mechanical problem, then I should be able to see the p/u stay on
the stack. I will re-read the theroy to see when the feed motor turns off.

Also on my last visit I took another ream of paper, Xerox somthing, from Kelly paper.
Good thing I did because I ran the last of their Staples paper on my last visit. They
only had 1 ream of Hammermil left, and they complained about that paper jamming too.
I told them that all paper needs to be fanned very well. It is usually dry here in Az.,
so I see more problems with static on paper.
Dag is right about eliminating the paper as a cause. And the customer said they would
try the paper I brought in for awhile.

Thanks for all the advice only time will tell

DR

**blazebusiness** · 02-15-2012, 06:27 PM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

Originally posted by Desert Rat

I have been out on this call a couple of times. Thought I had it last time.
The jam code is 0110 from the Right Deck.
Last time out I pulled the feed assy and cleaned the rollers and blew the sensor
out. I noticed that the sep roller seem to not put equal pressure on the feed
roller so I reversed the craddles and it seemed better. I adjusted the spring
in the direction of "B" to reduce the spring pressure so the sep roller could
do its job. Ran about 100 pages, watched the customer do the same, No jams.
But they called back today with the same problem. Only they said now it is
grabbing more like 5 sheets at a time. This machine only has 455K on the
meter. Could that retard assy on the sep roller be bad at this count or
am I fighting a paper problem? They are using Staples 92 bright 20lb.
I have seen a BH 600 not feed the Staples 96 bright 20lb and feed the
92 bright all day.
Can someone give me some direction?

Thanks

DR

I fixed a similar problem on that model by replacing the torque limiter that you mentioned you were going to check. Did you ever replace or swap it out? Mine had a hairline crack in the plastic. But unlike you I could easily recreate the multiple feed problem when I made copies. Sure makes your troubleshooting work more challenging when its difficult to recreate the problem the customer describes. If that doesn't help.....follow teckats advice and replace the pcb.

Note: Agree that staples paper does suck - but if you are not getting the same multiple feed symptom from the other cassettes I would not think its a problem with the paper.

**teckat** · 02-15-2012, 07:11 PM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

is this printer on a rug ?

did u check if printer has proper ground in outlet ??
net>to gd should be 0.0>0.5v max

quick way to check if poor ground> if u can feel a slight hum off glass with fingers > u have poor printer ground

i also advise customers in poor enviorments(air quality,rugs,printer location) to store paper unopened in a lager Rubbermaid container/
this works

**DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS** · 02-16-2012, 09:42 AM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

This an addendum to my previous post. Since you said you have already adjusted the pressure spring to position 'B', which was really the right step you took, I would suggest you TRY to REPLACE this SPRING the next time you go to tackle this problem. Most likely it has lost its mechanical properties & is no longer obeying ''HOOKE'S LAW''.....of Elasticity.

The effort applied by this pressure spring, on the pressure lever, could be insufficient to overcome the load or force exerted at the separation and pickup rollers. This would definitely result into either double feeding or no picking up.

**THUK** · 02-17-2012, 02:27 PM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

hi if it is the side paper deck you can actually take out the the sep roller assy and that will stop multi feeding.

**Desert Rat** · 02-17-2012, 04:55 PM

Re: IR 5000 multifeeding and jamming

Thank you all for your suggestions.
I am told that my torque limiter has arrived. Next week I will see this unit again,
I will refer to this post and the info contained.
I will post results when finished.

Thank you all very much. This info is really great.

DR