[Misc] Identify what goes on under bonnet

[Penelope Wakeham]

Hi all,
Could someone help me identify the printing technique of Canon copiers? I am about to buy another one and the method of print transfer I use works with some machines and not with others.
The IR3100 works and the IR3200 works.
I'm told it has something to do with an oil which is added at some stage in the process. Do the 2 machines above use an oil? Or is it that they don't use oil that makes my process work?
you see my dilemma?
Hope some one can help
regards, Penelope

[Tricky]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

The scanner stores the image in digital memory.

The drum is negatively charged.

The laser writes the image area to the drum and those areas get discharged to 0 volts.

The negatively charged toner gets pulled over to the image area (0 volts) on the drum.

The paper passes between the drum and the transfer roller, the positive charge on the transfer roller pulls the toner towards the paper.

The fuser completes the job

Colour machines have another stage the transfer belt, this is used to build up the image from the three colours and transfer it to the paper.

I am not aware of any oil in the machines you use.

oh and BTW

dont buy another 3100 try a irc2880 or that range.

Some other brands user an oil for the fuser.

[blazebusiness]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

Hi all,
Could someone help me identify the printing technique of Canon copiers? I am about to buy another one and the method of print transfer I use works with some machines and not with others.
The IR3100 works and the IR3200 works.
I'm told it has something to do with an oil which is added at some stage in the process. Do the 2 machines above use an oil? Or is it that they don't use oil that makes my process work?
you see my dilemma?
Hope some one can help
regards, Penelope

If I understand your question.....Oil would not be an issue causing your transfer problem as Canon for quite some time has used suspension polymerization for color laser toners. Instead of oil, a sphere with a wax rich core holds the toner pigments which has made possible the oil-less fixing systems that most machines use today. What method are you using to transfer the prints? I assume you are doing a heat transfer to cloth or canvas. If so, almost any brand of color laser copier or printer should be compatible nowadays. In the past oil was almost always used but oil is not very common in the fixing process today---regardless of the brand.

[teckat]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet


Canon Europe - Copier Printing Process
full link above


The Fixing Process





- Roller Fixing: roller fixing occurs when the roller is heated by a tube heater installed in its centre. The toner is then fixed by applying pressure and heat from the fuser unit.
- On-demand Fixing: when a paper passes through the fusing unit, the fixing film makes contact with a heater and immediately becomes hot. The toner is then fixed onto the paper by pressure and heat, which is released through the film, thus saving energy with no warm-up time required.



Call RICOH in Europe / they may still make oil base printers in that market

[copres]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

There are no copiers or printers currently manufactured with use of fuser oil in the fixing unit (that i know of). Last of the series for Canon was CLC1180 class machines. You need to get a heat transfer sheet that works in conventional fuser unit. They are much more expensive but do work.

[Penelope Wakeham]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

Hi all, thanks for the interest.


I am familiar with the general xerographic process but what I don't understand is why I can use copies from some machines and not others. I use an acrylic polymer to lift the pigment from the paper after printing.
I found this Canon U.S.A. : Supplies - Technology
which is very interesting. It seems I have got 'oil' and 'wax' mixed up. It looks as if it is the toner which is the variant here, not the machine.
So different machines use different toners. Which toner does the ir3100 and ir3200 use?


It would be logical to think that a 'Polymerized Toner' as in the Spherical & Synergy toner would stick to another polymer better than the 'Micro Dispersed Wax structure' of the Vivid toner.


Skynet: I hear what you say about the 3100. I need to upgrade to a proper colour machine that can deliver better colour and quality. Can't afford much though.
Blazebusiness: I don't print on canvas or anything, but use the pigment that the machine lays down on the paper for me. So I should have guessed that it is the toner that is all important.
Teckat: I think I have to find a modern solution to my problem if I am to keep working like this.


Again, thanks for the interest.
Regards,
Penelope

[teckat]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

On Canon color products the Toner (Silica/Resin) to Starter(iron-oxide/Carrier) ratio is different in all models

iRC3200/ & iRC3100 Series uses=Canon’s S-Toner=consists of a wax inner layer and polymer outer layer.
Spy glass.jpg
Toner is a dry pigmented complex powder with particles size of 8-12 micrometer and is
composed of the following basic components;

• Polymer - generally brittle to enable efficient particle manufacture and low melting point
to enable rapid thermal fusing.
• Colorant (pigments e.g carbon black) - to provide the desired toner colour.
• Charge control agent – to enable the charge characteristics of the toner to be fine tuned.
• Flow control additives (for example fumed silica) – to prevent the toner from caking.
• Wax – to prevent toner from sticking to the heated fuser rollers.

Each toner is formulated to match the characteristics of a particular print engine, including the
toner cartridge configuration, image development, transfer mechanism and fusing technique.

Tribo-electric charging of the toner is an important factor for printing [7][8]and is influenced by the type of polymer, the toner particle size and shape, polarity, pigment and surface additives (typically silica, titanium oxides, organo-metallic salts).
The purpose of using surface additives is to maintain the tribo-charging characteristics, transparency and flow
characteristics of each toner particle.

[Penelope Wakeham]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

On Canon color products the Toner (Silica/Resin) to Starter(iron-oxide/Carrier) ratio is different in all models

iRC3200/ & iRC3100 Series uses==consists of a wax inner layer and polymer outer layer.

So it seems I need to test machines that use S-Toner.
Do you know how I can find this out? Lots of information out there but I can't find a site that lists the type of toner used in the technical information.

I'm thinking a trip to Newbury might be the way forward. Though whether they would bother with someone who wasn't going to lease a copier from them I don't know.

Regards,
Penelope

[Scottb]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

You know most of the guys here are helpful. You might could send a file to one and let them print on different models and mail you the prints for you to test. We are mainly a Kyocera dealer, but we do have a couple of canon color copiers on the floor.

Scott

[Penelope Wakeham]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

You know most of the guys here are helpful. You might could send a file to one and let them print on different models and mail you the prints for you to test.

Scott

What a brilliant idea! Here is a small image - I can tell whether it is going to work with a couple of square inches.

If anyone has the time and wouldn't mind sending me some copies to try, I would be very grateful. I'll email my address.

Thanks in anticipation

Penelope

[Scottb]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

I have printed a copy from an Canon ir advance 5235, and a Kyocera FS-C2126, and I will gladly mail them today.

Scott

[Penelope Wakeham]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

I have printed a copy from an Canon ir advance 5235, and a Kyocera FS-C2126, and I will gladly mail them today.

Scott

Thank you Scott - very good of you.
I've sent a message with my address.

Penelope

[Penelope Wakeham]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

I have printed a copy from an Canon ir advance 5235, and a Kyocera FS-C2126, and I will gladly mail them today.

Scott

Hi Scott, The prints have arrived - and all the way from the States too.
Now for the test.

Anyone else like to send me some copies from various Canon machines to try?

Thanks Scott, will let you know how they turn out.
Penelope

[Penelope Wakeham]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

Test Report


I'm sorry to have to report that Scott's trial prints did not work.

On the up side, he has helped me eliminate PQ (Pure Quality) toner from the search.

Unhappy face, Penelope

[Scottb]

Re: Identify what goes on under bonnet

Penelope

Have you had any luck with anyone else sending you test prints.

Scott