[Jamming] KM bizhub PRO C6500 FS-607 J-7224/6 when folding

[orestesp]

An order came in the other day for a couple of hundred advertisement letters that were to be printed in A4 plain paper and to be tri folded. So when I was ready, I fired up CWS and gave the order for the machine to start printing and folding them.

And then it jammed. And again, and again, and again. I tried a different brand of paper that we had laying around, but to no avail. Tried loading the paper from a different tray, but it kept jamming at the same exact spot in the finisher with the same exact code (J-7226, although sometimes I would get a J-7224).

The machine in question is a KM bizhub PRO C6500 with just the FS-607 on the output side and the LCT on the input side. The machine's paired with a Fiery IC-303, and has around ~2,500,000 prints on it.

I'm not an experienced user, so I've also uploaded a screenshot of the settings that I used, in case I am doing something wrong. Note that it will happily do a half fold without changing anything else in CWS.

I've linked a couple of pictures where you can see the exact spot where the jam occurs. Although the first fold is completed successfully, it seems that it has trouble doing the second fold.

KM bizhub PRO C6500 FS-607 J-7224 J-7226 - Album on Imgur

Thanks in advance.

[raplma]

Re: KM bizhub PRO C6500 FS-607 J-7224/6 when folding

To get the ball rolling before the pro tech's give best/better advice....

I have had two of the finishers in question, one on a c5501 and another on a c6501, and have had the J-7224 jam code as you currently have, although not in relation to tri-folding.
Your settings seem fine and any tweaking of the folding unit isn't within the CWS.

In our experience these units are prone to the effects of static build-up and dust causing paper to not pass effectively through to the various sections.
We regularly blew out our units out with an air hose as the amount of paper dust that collects at the bottom is quite something.
We also regularly spray the surfaces where the paper comes into contact with a silicone spray to reduce friction and therefore static build-up.
The most common scenario we had the J-7224 was multi-half-folding A4, run the job SRA4 and trim off press no issue at all, simply static preventing the paper from dropping into the lower section.
The type of paper used also makes a difference, cheaper paper was more prone to jamming than quality, again due to the surface being rougher and therefore creating more static.

In all honesty I never got ours to consistently fold tri-fold well and we tended to do these on a dedicated folder.

Not having had your exact problem, what I've said may be irrelevant.
If there is a faulty sensor or even a worn belt, I'm sure someone will help you diagnose further.

[orestesp]

Re: KM bizhub PRO C6500 FS-607 J-7224/6 when folding

Can anyone explain to me what the following means? I tried cleaning the area where the paper jams in the finisher but to no avail.

Screenshot_1.jpg

Thanks.

[raplma]

Re: KM bizhub PRO C6500 FS-607 J-7224/6 when folding

I'll have a go...

J- codes or Jam codes give an indication as to why the machine has stopped, they don't necessarily tell you what caused the jam.
The primary role of a sensor is to let the machine know where the paper is in it's journey through the machine.
The machine logically knows what sensors will be triggered in what order and in what time period relative to the print job received.

The two codes you mention relate to the operation of photo sensor PS26 in your finisher.

J-7224 occurs when "The folding pass-through sensor (PS26) does not turn ON after stapling has completed"
I realise you're not stapling this is what the manual states.
In short it says the paper did not trigger the exit sensor within the time period it expected, i.e. it got stuck before it triggered the sensor.
You know this because the paper did not exit the machine instead it got jammed inside and you pulled it out.

J-7226 occurs when "The folding paper exit sensor (PS26) does not turn OFF within a specified period of time after it turns ON.
In short it says the paper triggered the exit sensor, but did not release the sensor within the time period the machine expected, i.e. the paper moved further than before, but got stuck before it passed out of the machine.
Again you know this because you had to pull the paper out.

So the J-xxx code tells you why the machine stopped, but does not tell you why the paper got jammed.

What you have found in the solutions pdf, is what you need to do in order to see if this sensor (PS26) operates.
So your machine is equipped with a function that enables it to turn on and turn off pretty much any operational part, and then confirm the state of that part.
The parts that can be checked are given an identification code - like a post/zip code - the 72-44 is the identification code for the PS26 sensor in the finisher on the machine the solution is for.
You access it via the service mode, under [state confirmation] [I/O Check Mode].
However get this wrong and you can cause damage to your machine, so you'll need to be confident in what is being done as well as check that the 72-44 is correct ID for your machine.
I only know the machines after yours so am unable to check this code is the right one, you'll need to check that the solutions pdf is for the c6500, and not c6501 etc.

However my hunch is that seeing you are getting the codes it's not the sensor that's not working, but rather the tri-fold functionality.
Judging from your pics, the paper is passing into the finisher and down to the "saddle stitching stopper" the folding knife is triggered which gives the first fold, and passes the paper through to the tri-fold stopper, it's from this point that the paper is not then passing correctly through the tri-fold rollers. As for why, that's a dark art and why end users like us use professional techs.
As I've said before I've never been satisfied with the tri-fold functionality on these finishers, even our SD503 finisher doesn't do the job as good as a dedicated folder.
Ensure all the rollers at the bottom are clean, I use - and I risk being shouted at - quality brake cleaner, although alcohol is best, with a lint free rag, to get all the grime off.
It could well be that a solenoid is not triggering, or a motor isn't operating, which could be because a drive gear or belt is worn.
If you don't mind me saying a c6500 is an old machine cir 2007 and the rubber parts, belts and gears will be tired.
Many years ago when faced with a situation not too dissimilar I even resorted to added a small line on the artwork so I could fold the 500 tri-fold leaflets by hand...doch!

Good luck, and if you do get it fixed please post up it always helps the next person.

Mark

[tsbservice]

Re: KM bizhub PRO C6500 FS-607 J-7224/6 when folding

J-7224

Try adjusting the finisher paper curl. To do this, perform the following:
1. On the Machine tab of the display, select the adjustment button.
2. Select #4 Finisher Adjustments.
3. Select #8 Curl Adjustments.
Within this adjustment there are a number of adjustments depending on the functionality selected within the jobs.
Large, Middle, Small. For 1 to 1, duplex and folding.
This adjustment adjusts the speed difference from the machine speed to the finisher drive roller speed which, in turn, will affect curl. Also affecting the curl is the quality and type of paper, fuser temperature and the GSM paper weight of the tray settings.


J-7226

Check the folding paper exit sensor PS25. Clean, adjust, and replace as necessary (p/n 08AA 8551 2).
Check PS29 both sensor and LED in the I/O State Confirmation mode for proper operation. Clean or replace as necessary. (sensor p/n 12AR 8551 2 and LED p/n 13QJ 8551 0).


Lastly, I will second that.
"Good luck, and if you do get it fixed please post up it always helps the next person."

[orestesp]

Re: KM bizhub PRO C6500 FS-607 J-7224/6 when folding

If you don't mind me saying a c6500 is an old machine cir 2007 and the rubber parts, belts and gears will be tired.

I am well aware of this. The machine was bought second hand by a shop which had it under a maintenance contract with KM's official representative in my country. Unfortunately for me, their work was sloppy, to say the least. The dev units were bodged with some PP tape for some reason I don't want to find out until I have to replace them and the filters on the machine must have been changed only once, if ever, and as I said, it's pushing 2,500,000 impressions.

I doubt the rubber/foam rollers on the finisher have ever been changed. What should I be looking to replace in the finisher?

Thanks again.

[raplma]

Re: KM bizhub PRO C6500 FS-607 J-7224/6 when folding

Regarding impressions, as a rule of thumb this grade of machine is capable of 6 million, assuming well maintained.
We had a c6501 that did well over 5 before it gave up - or we gave up on it - we still have an old c5501 with 3.5M and a c7000 at the back of the shop that's not far off 11 Million, we've kept them simply because over the years we've amassed a load of spares, they are no longer on contract so look after them ourselves. Both these machines are derivations of the c6500.

The maintenance schedule of the FS606 finisher focusses on conveyance rollers, none of the rollers in the booklet maker/folder section, so in effect the rubber rollers should last the life of the print unit.

I would try what tsbservice suggested in adjusting the curl for J-7224 and if your machine hasn't had the best service then cleaning the sensors is a good call. Many of these sensors are break beam sensors so any grit and grime over the emitter and receiver will give false readings. Also check that the sensor trigger - usually made of black plastic - isn't broken or the tips worn out. Alas this part of the machine is one of the hardest to observe to visually find what's going wrong.

You've clearly been searching Google, if not already search for the "Field Service Manual" and "Theory of Operation" for the c6500 and parts list for FS-607, these were readily available online.

Have fun
Mark

[DigiMan]

Re: KM bizhub PRO C6500 FS-607 J-7224/6 when folding

Just my 2 cents in the matter recetly had something similar and the metal plate in which the paper is stacked before its folded(in the FS)was slightly bent.Nothing to serious to fix,took 2 screws and some bending to get it straight.If it always stops in the same spot in the same number of papers in you could always try to panic stop it right before that and check for anything out of the blue.

Let us know how it goes.