[Misc] Firmare upgrades for KMC C253 Printer - Better stored document management?

[Guest]

Hi There,

I stumbled on this forum trying to find a solution to our ongoing woes with our KMC BizHub 253 purchase. I am in Singapore and Konica have a local representative office here that seems to have an aggressive salesforce and zero-interest in long-term customer retention.

Since our small school purchased our C253 some 16 months ago I have been complaining that their onboard document management solution (the mailboxes/user boxes) is near unusable because of several very poor UI decisions - specifically, the inability to move more than 1 file at at time, the inability to print more than 1 copy of multiple files in a mailbox at once. This is a problem both with the on-machine interface and the (very poorly designed from a user experience standpoint) web interface.

The response I get from KMC in Singapore is very consistent - when I rattle the cage they say oh yes yes, well look into it. Then they dont bother replying - I have tried this for over 16 months now. I have asked about firmware upgrades, but they say 'it's difficult' and dont bother responding beyond that. (!!!)

I wonder whether capable technical people outside of my region that know KMC machines might be able to help me with some questions:

1. Have there been firmware upgrades in 2009 or 2010? What is the latest firmware for the BizHub C253?

2. How do I find out my firmware vesrion?

3. Have you heard of the problems I am describing? If so do you know if they are solved in a recent revision? If not, do you have any idea where I can find a changelog for the newer firmwares?

**Hopefully questions 1-3 will give me some amunition to continue my frustrating dealings with the local KMC firm**

4. Do you know the best way for me to feed back on the sub-standard service and support wer have received in Singapore DIRECT to the Japan head office? I regularly send feedback and complaints to the local contact points I have about the level of service (not problem *resolution*, just *acknowledgement and follow up*) but like with the problems themselves, it seems that the service feedback is falling on deaf ears. Surely someone in Japan cares about the quality of their Singapore Operations - I see a lot of effort goes into producing the equipment, but the Singapore Office is damaging the brand with their sub-standard support - at this point I am never going to consider KMC again, and actively recommend against their offerings to my peers - not out of spite, but genuine concern for other's making the right decision. I cant imagine I am the only KMC customer to be in this situation in my region and I think the head office should probably appreciate being made aware of the situation.

I apologise for the intrusion to your technical forum! But hopefully someone here with experience might help me more than the company I PAY support fees to!

Thanks & Regards,

Alex

[jschool]

Update on Q2 - Since posting this I have read through the Service Manual BlackAngelKM2010 uploaded on his/her blog - whose link I have been asked to remove, but is posted elsewhere in this forum when discussing firmware for the bizhub range.

I can go into the service mode and see my firmware version - but it gives me 4 pages of versions! All firmware from the printer boards to the ADF to the stapler, fax board etc...

So I would like to ammend my question #2:

How do I find out the *revelant* firmware version that has an impact on the device user interface and the web user interface?

THANKS!

[suso73os]

As I know you can only access to download a machine firmware if you are an oficial distribuitor. If you have the service manual you can know the firmware version instaled in service mode.

[jschool]

As I know you can only access to download a machine firmware if you are an oficial distribuitor. If you have the service manual you can know the firmware version instaled in service mode.

Thanks for that Suso. Perhaps my post was too long so the details got lost in the rant... but:
a) I dont intend to install anything myself - I just have a totally non-responsive support organization in my country and I am hoping information from other, more capable and responsive techs can give me the ammunition to get the local excuse for a distributor to take action.
b) I did have a look at the service mode and can see 4 pages of firmware numbers (approx 35 +/- different firmware versions for different components.) Hence my request about 'which' one I should look to for knowing if I had the 'lastest for machine & web UI'


I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my post and hope that you and your colleagues on copytechnet might be able to steer me to find a way to wake up the support organization that has, thus far, left us out to dry!

Best

Alex

[Stirton.M]

Unfortunately, some offices of KM in areas such as yours have very poor support locally. I am not sure if this is just poor communications between the office and Japan, or a centralized office to the entire region and the place you are dealing with. It is also possible the office is merely a dealer, and not a branch. The difference being is that a dealer will sell other brands, not just KM. In those cases, it is quite likely that the tech has zero support beyond the basics.

That said, KM does have excellent support for technicians overall. You mentioned you wondered why KM did not have something like the link you posted. Actually, we do, but it is controlled access through mykonicaminolta.com. Without authorization, someone such as yourself will only have access to basic things like user manuals and drivers, whereas someone like me has access to pretty much everything, service manuals and firmware and technical bulletins.

That said....

To my knowledge, the interface on the control panel should allow you to move/merge/delete multiple files if I recall correctly. I am nowhere near one of these machines at the moment, so I cannot verify for sure. The web interface should allow almost the same features...almost in that moving to other boxes is not in the works.

To my knowledge, this link has the latest user manuals available. bizhub C253 Printer Scanner Fax from Konica Minolta

As technicians, it is not our responsibility to know the finer details of how to use features like boxes and smb. I know enough how to set them up, make use of some of the basics and that is it. My job primarily is to fix the machine when it breaks down, not to train the customer. This is not universal to all companies, competitors or otherwise. However, it is very common.

The manuals should give you all the information you need to know on the functional capabilities of the user box. Pay special attention to the PageScope Web Connection sections.

Also, there is a program you should have available on one of the disks sold with the machine. One disk, black coloured, called pagescope tools, contains many user programs, one called box operator, that more than likely will suit your end use needs. If you do not have the disks, you can download the files from this location.

Konica Minolta Knowlegebase

User manuals should be available with the zip file. I recommend you use the most recent version for best results.

Further, if that is not a solution to some of your issues, perhaps scan to smb may resolve some of those.

As for firmware version, this can easily be found by printing out the configuration page.

Press the utility key, then the user option on the screen. Select Printer settings, then print reports, then configuration page. Select letter or any size you want...letter is typical...and press the start button.

On the page, you will see the firmware level currently on the machine. The latest baseline version of firmware is G10-R6....the last two digits are the version family, the previous three are the variant to that family. Older versions, old to new...78, 88, J8 and R5.

Your tech, as explained above, may or may not be able to help you with this. I honestly do not know. Firmware, along with technical manuals and so on, is strictly controlled by KM. They should be able to get you the latest firmware updates as required, but as I stated before, they may be simply a dealer and have limited support. You may have luck by contacting support through konicaminolta.com, at the very least you should get some answers regarding what to expect where you live if the local office is not helpful. It might be beneficial to simply visit that office in person and put them on the spot, so to speak...see if you can have a chat with the service manager.

The site you posted the link to by the way, is violating copyright. I advise you remove the link from your previous post.

[jschool]

Hi there Sirton M.

Thanks for your comprehensive reply. I get the impression you work for Minolta or with part of their organization that is more responsible/rensposive. I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my complaints (something KMC Singapore never have!) even if they do not lead to a direct resolution.

Unfortunately, some offices of KM in areas such as yours have very poor support locally. ..... It is also possible the office is merely a dealer, and not a branch.

Nope - they are a branch, only dealing with KMC products (albeit more than copiers.) They are just the embodyment of the Singaporean attention to detail, work ethic and ability to communicate - something that is detrimental to the Japanese brand and the values they try to enforce abroad.

That said, KM does have excellent support for technicians overall.

Fair enough - It is not outside the realm of possibility (!!) that we just have a poor organization here that does not attract capable tech (or non-tech) service talent - leading to terrible service. Still says very little for the local branch - and I would loke to raise this to someone who actually follows up on levels of customer satisfaction in this region!

To my knowledge, the interface on the control panel should allow you to move/merge/delete multiple files if I recall correctly.

I have been a user and buyer of MFPs for decades now and have seen all varieties of on-board document management tools. One would think that the amility to move multiple documents, or print more than 1 copy of multiple documents would be an absolute no-brainer.. but in our machine it is not possible. This has been confirmed by sales crew (whom I initially thought sold me a lemon since they repeatedly claimed it was possible when I mentioned that we would have >200 documents stored on the device and needed an efficient way to manage them.) Furthermore, it is a matter that I have raised repeatedly and still has no resolution - so I assume if it were just a question of someone calling me to say "press this combination of buttons you ***ing idiot - just like it says in the manual!" I am sure they would have - and I would have (and will still) humbly acknowledge my mistake.

Which is what brings me to the firmware. I do not expect perfection out of the R&D department, but presumably *some* other users need to use the onboard document management fuctions (which are attrocious) and thatwould have triggered someone to tweak the web/onboard tools to allow multiple prints or moves. This woudl likely come in the form of a firmware/internal software update. But the hopeless crew out here in Singapore claim 'its difficult' - leaving me with no choice but to see if others have an idea of whether such an update exists. If so then I can raise more hell until I become
more 'difficult' than applying the new firmware!

Anyway - thanks for the manual and links - Again I appreciate your effort despite it not solving my problem. Details follow:

1. Knowledgebase (great new resource, thanks) but the only semi relevant tool to onboard document management is the Box Operator. I installed the lates version of this and it still does not allow management of PRINTED stored jobs. (again something the sales guys swore to me was possible before the purchase.)

2. Manuals (already have them, but thanks =) I compare my manual with the one on the site (presumably the latest) and see no differences. The manuals do not explicitly state 'You can only move one file at a time' but neither do they show screens of moving more than one file at a time. Ditto on the printing 2+ copies of multiple selections.


[QUOTE=Stirton.M;174637]As technicians, it is not our responsibility to know the finer details of how to use features like boxes and smb. [\QUOTE]
Yes indeed - there are hardware techs (probaly the really hard part!) Software Techs, General customer service personnel, sales, management etc.... but NONE take responsibility here for an unusable interface. And since the tech at least have the technical capacity to understand the problem, you all are my only hope... God knows the rest of KMC in Singapore is unable/unwilling to look at this matter.

Further, if that is not a solution to some of your issues, perhaps scan to smb may resolve some of those.

We use this all the time, but it is different to onboard document management - I have an office with very tech aerse people that need to be able to print large, complicated print jobs (multiple pages, double sided, saddle stiching, mix of colour/B&W, page scaling, etc...) and I need a device (like ALL in the market today) that allows me to store print jobs and their settings on the copier and allow timid technophobes with intermittent motor control of their index fingers and even more intermittent periods of lucidity to perform these prints. (We have a school and print lots of manuals on demand; no our staff are not THAT bad at operating technology!) Since we have over 200 different documents that are regularly updated and reorganized, moving one at a time is really NOT a viable option.

Anyway - what/why we need a usable interface, or a minimum level of support from our local branch is rather beside the point

As for firmware version, this can easily be found by printing out the configuration page.

AHA! Great Thank you! Printer controller firmware is: A02E0Y0-3000-G00-65

The latest baseline version of firmware is G10-R6....the last two digits are the version family, the previous three are the variant to that family. Older versions, old to new...78, 88, J8 and R5.

Hmmm, to me G00-65 seems much lower than G10-R6 Does this mean I could use an update? If so is there a place for me to see/request a changelog to see if my problems are addressed?



THANKS again Sirton.M! Amazing that I feel better about Konika Minolta through an anonymous blog post than I do from nearly 2 years of being a paying customer, and trying to squeeze some support of of our local branch!

Best

Alex

[emujo]

G00-65 is the latest level for the print controller. If you look at the f/w versions in service mode, you should see a few items labled R5. If this is true, then your MFP is up to date. It may be that you have some administrator settings enabled that are keeping you from doing what you want to do, but if you scan or store print jobs to the HDD you should be able to select and print as many as you need. Some advanced features are not available from the print screen. Emujo

[Stirton.M]

Yes, emujo is correct about that...I thought the config page gave the firmware level that we associate with the firmware package. In your case, you may, or you may not have the latest. Version J8 and R5 both contain the same version print controller. As emujo stated, find out what service mode indicates regarding firmware. Regardless of which of the 3 levels you may have, the user manuals, that is, the latest ones I had shown on that link, indicate they are specifically for version J8 and above, which implies that there is very little difference in operational controls.

I agree with emujo that it is possible that there is some limit set that may be obstructing you from fully using the hardware. As I previously stated, you should have the ability to select multiple documents. The user manual explicitly shows that ability, at least from the pagescope web interface section I mentioned above. The control panel interface should show the same capabilities, albeit a bit more convoluted, given the limited size of the panel screen.

If you are at version R5, you should be able to do this. R6, I had not mentioned earlier, may not show that it is installed, as there is very little difference between the two versions aside from the boot code...if you see G00-04 listed for the boot code, you have R6, otherwise, you have R5 if you see that referenced under "MFP Controller".

It might be advantageous to simply start over with respect to the machine defaults.

Backup any user one touch programming you may have. Use data administrator or simply export them from the web interface logged in as administrator. Also, download all box data onto a computer. Again, as I understand it, box operator should allow you to streamline this. Otherwise, you will have to do this via the web interface. Make note of network settings like the IP address, workgroup settings, scan to email, DNS and so forth. If you are using copytrack or authentication, again backup that as well. Data admin makes this process fairly easy to do. The point being in this exercise is that you are going to do a factory reset procedure to clear all user and configuration data currently stored on the machine.

Once you have backed up the information, the next step is to go into tech rep mode.

Press the utility key. On the screen you should see "meters" on the left, select it if it is not already selected. At the bottom left, select details. Basically the same as though you wanted to print out a meter listing. No need to print out the listing, just need to be at that screen. tap the hard keys in the following order as written....

stop - zero - zero - stop - zero - one

Do not adjust any settings in tech rep. Its ok if you want to look around here, but changing any settings without knowing what they do can cause you problems you may be better off not having. All I want you to do is simply select the following screen buttons....

System 1
-->Initialization
---->Data Clear
------>Start Key

Wait for the machine to do its thing. Can take a minute or so for the machine to do what it needs. It will eventually prompt you to turn off the main power (switch behind the front door). Wait at least 10 seconds and then cycle the power switch back on.

At this point, you will have to wait several minutes after the machine has come back up to the main screen. It is annoying how long you have to wait, but the point is, the machine is still doing some things not readily obvious. Grab a cup of fresh coffee to pass the time....bathroom break, smoke...whatever...5 minutes should be enough time.

Go back into tech rep as indicated above. Select system 2 this time. On the right side, you should see a button called HDD. Select that. Within, two buttons should be seen, one called installed, the other uninstalled. The latter "should" be currently highlighted. You can select "installed". Back out of tech rep mode. Cycle the power again as described above. After a few minutes, you should have a fully functioning machine. The hard disk is disabled as part of the data clear process, enabling it will allow you to enter your one touch data and recreate the user boxes. See the attached pdf for additional items that are cleared that you "may" have to re-enter, pending the options you have with the base machine.

If all goes well, you should be able to access and use the boxes as per the user manual descriptions.

Beyond this, there is not much more I can advise that is not seen in the user manuals regarding box operations.

[Mr Spock]

This is the latest list of the firmware on the c253 (last full update was 5/19/09). Some may change depending on any special firmware installed and which options are installed but this should be close to what you should see if it was installed. This is also the USA listing.

BOOT: A02E0Y0-1E00-G00-04
MFP controller subset: A02E0Y0-1F00-G00-70
MFP controller: A02E0Y0-0100-G10-R5
MFP controller system: A02E0Y0-1000-G10-R5
MFP controller print controller: A02E0Y0-3000-G00-65
MFP controller print controller font: A02E0Y0-3F00-G00-22
MFP controller print controller Demo Page: A00J0Y0-3E00-G00-00
MFP controller MIO: A02E0Y0-5000-G00-80
MFP controller PSWC: A02E0Y0-5100-G00-06
MFP controller MIB IF: A02E0Y0-5200-G00-J1
MFP controller IPP IF: A02E0Y0-5300-G00-82
MFP controller TCP/Socket: A02E0Y0-6300-G00-J2
MFP controller OPEN API: A02E0Y0-7000-G00-11
MFP controller operation panel: A02E0Y0-8000-GM0-30
MFP controller PIC: A02E0Y0-8200-G10-23
MFP controller CSRC control Body: A02E0Y0-8300-G00-80
Scanner: A02E0Y0-0023-G00-34
Printer: A02E0Y0-0050-G20-08
FAX board controller 1: 15LA-0040-G01-10-000
Operation panel message data: A02E0Y0-8100-G00-K1
ADF: A01H0Y0-0024-G00-12
Finisher (FS-519): A01G0Y0-0071-G01-01
Job separator (JS-505): A0830Y0-0070-G00-00

[emujo]

I looked at our C550 (same controller as 353) and I am able to scan mutiple page documents as saved files and merge these documents together for printing. I have finishing, duplex and number of copies options. What I can't do is merge documents from different boxes. We have a LK101 license on this MFP and although I ma not too familiar with it, it looks like you can do a little more with this add on, but I don't have the time to get too invloved with it. The MFP is at R6 firmware. Emujo

[Stirton.M]

emujo, You can transfer files from box to box....or copy them as I recall....

[emujo]

With page scope and the control panel, I can move docs from 1 box to another, but I can only merge documents using the control panel. I suppose this is because if I am using page scope, KM assumes I can do the required merging with my PC and then manage the docs (send back to box, print, delete ect). So I go back to my original reply...if the thread starter can't do this from the MFP, it's a settings issue, or it may be a functional limitation due to the geographical area of the world he is in..maybe this is not a app that is included for his region..like the voice option for clearing jams on the C652 series...it's available, but not in the US. Emujo

[jschool]

Thank you all for your comments and efforts - I have been unable to come back to this last week but spent a little more time on the Firmware checking and will also clarify my difficulties.

First, The Firmware: Thanks Mr. Spock for your complete list. My firmware is almost exactly the same as yours with the exception of additional/different components like our finisher, etc... The only thing that may seem relevant is that You did not include a 'Panel CPU' firmware, where as I have one listed. This is in addition to the 'MFP Operation Panel' and 'Operation Panel Message Data'. Here are my firmware numbers:

BOOT: A02E0Y0-1E00-G00-04
MFP controller subset: A02E0Y0-1F00-G00-70
MFP controller: A02E0Y0-0100-G10-R5
MFP controller system: A02E0Y0-1000-G10-R5
MFP controller print controller: A02E0Y0-3000-G00-65
MFP controller print controller font: A02E0Y0-3F00-G00-22
MFP controller print controller Demo Page: A00J0Y0-3E00-G00-00
MFP controller MIO: A02E0Y0-5000-G00-80
MFP controller PSWC: A02E0Y0-5100-G00-06
MFP controller MIB IF: A02E0Y0-5200-G00-J1
MFP controller IPP IF: A02E0Y0-5300-G00-82
MFP controller TCP/Socket: A02E0Y0-6300-G00-J2
MFP controller OPEN API: A02E0Y0-7000-G00-11
MFP controller operation panel: A02E0Y0-8000-GM0-30
MFP controller PIC: A02E0Y0-8200-G10-23
MFP controller CSRC control Body: A02E0Y0-8300-G00-80
Scanner: A02E0Y0-0023-G00-34
Printer: A02E0Y0-0050-G20-08
FAX board controller 1: 15LA-0040-G01-10-000
Operation panel message data: A02E0Y0-8100-G00-K1
ADF: A01H0Y0-0024-G00-12
Finisher (FS-519): A0D60Y0-0071-G00-00 (Different Finisher)
Panel CPU: A02E0y0-8900-G00-00


Now, in response to emujo and Sirton.M:
Background:
1. We are a school and use the device to print course materials.
2. The mailboxes are used exclusively to store print jobs/settings for these materials
a) Only print jobs are used to ensure quality of printout (ie: we do/will not print then scan to mailbox(!)
b) Staff that operate the device can learn the Device Panel to nagivate mailboxes and print books, but it is impractical to expect them to learn how to manage the finer points of the windows driver settings to get the right settings for re-sized booklets, saddle stiching, etc...
c) If these print jobs were not stored in the mailbox, they are so big, it would take too long to re-send the jobs from a PC each time they are to be used.
3. We have over 40 mailboxes and 300+ print jobs.

Problems:
1. The frequenly touted (by KMC sales) box operator is useless to our company because it ONLY allows the management of Scanned jobs. Print jobs simply do not appear
2. Both in the Panel and in the Web-interface, I cannot move more than a SINGLE job at a time. This means that maintenance of over 300 documents is impossibly slow, repetitive and frustrating for anyone with an IQ of over 60.
3. In the panel, it is not possible to print more than ONE copy of a selection of multiple documents. ie: if I had 10 module booklets to print for 10 students, I cannot multiple select them and print 10 of each. I need to single-select, print 10, then single select the next item and print 10, etc... or multiple select all 10 booklets and print 1 copy of each, then wait for the printing to finish and repeat 9 more times. In the case of 10 books for 10 people it means I need to do 10x more work. Imagine when we have to do this for 40+ documents and 40+ students - again, makes us really really think poorly of KMC - especially given that we raised these specific usage patterns with the sales staff.

These are problems that cause is daily difficulties.

Then whe have general usability issues with the web interface that indicate NO usability testing was ever done on this tool - not even any reasonable translation checking.
It is because of this that I assumed we had been given an early-release of the firmware - thinking that most self-respencing companies would at least want to release incremental improvements to corrent horribly designed and translated elements of their product. Sadly it seems this may not be the case since Mr. Spock and Sirton.M seem to agree that I have the lastes firmware.

I would appreciate your thoughts on the issues I am seeing - but if this is really the last update KMC released for the device I am very disspointed with their attention to deficits in already-released equipment and will be certain not to include them in any future considerations for MFP equipment.

Again - thank you all for your time and comments! It is far more than I have received from KMC and was most undexpected....

Regards

Alex

[emujo]

I think this will solve at least one of your issues...go to the user box that you want to print multiple sets...select all of the documents you want to print..now select "COMBINE", the screen will change to a list of all the documents you have selected, press OK. Now the finishing options and # of copies should no longer greyed out. You can input # of copies, staple and duplex options. Let us know. Emujo

[BlueBlazer]

Have you considered setting up an external printer server. It seems that the document flow you are talking about could be better managed by an external PC. A dedicated print server would keep transfer time to a minimum and allow for future expansion as you rolled out more course packs.

These are problems that cause is daily difficulties.

I only make this suggest because I work at a university that is rolling out a KM workflow system.
Konica's box printing solutions are great for low volume, high user base, not so great for large volume which you are referring to, especially a c253, which is a great machine, just not quite the speed you may be looking for the amount of volume you are seeing.

I don't mean to step on any toes, but it just seems like you may have more success looking outside of KM's work flow solutions.