Bizhub c650 Image Shift REYB/PH PWB-J

[Synaux]

I thought someone might find this useful and deserving it's own post originating from here.

I have not found a single bulletin or any mention of this issue from KM (it might just be a fluke).

Had a PWB-J board (print head relay board) burn up causing P-14, 21 & 22 along with a severe shift of prints:
c650 image shift.jpg

[habik]

Have you tried system and data clear? Back up settings first!Then mass production firmware and see how it goes. Then maybe the p14 fw?


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[Synaux]

Re: Bizhub c650 Image Shift REYB/PH PWB-J

Have you tried system and data clear? Back up settings first!Then mass production firmware and see how it goes. Then maybe the p14 fw?


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Thanks for replying habik, I did everything you suggested and more.

It was definitely the board--I neglected to mention that I tried the board in another working machine and was able to duplicate the issue.

[habik]

Re: Bizhub c650 Image Shift REYB/PH PWB-J

Interesting Glad you sorted it out. I was screening through some bulletins and found interesting info, but it is regarded to C364e and it states a bug which was fixed with the latest firmware for that series. I wonder if there is

Check this out

Image shift may occur if the main power switch is turned ON while the front door of FS-534 is opened.
So I wonder if, but only if your case was "maybe" jam and reboot with door on finisher or side door or front door on machine was open whilst powering machine up

Just bit of a boredom really here

[Synaux]

Re: Bizhub c650 Image Shift REYB/PH PWB-J

Interesting Glad you sorted it out. I was screening through some bulletins and found interesting info, but it is regarded to C364e and it states a bug which was fixed with the latest firmware for that series. I wonder if there is

Check this out

Image shift may occur if the main power switch is turned ON while the front door of FS-534 is opened.
So I wonder if, but only if your case was "maybe" jam and reboot with door on finisher or side door or front door on machine was open whilst powering machine up

Just bit of a boredom really here

Curious. What is the bulletin number--I am obviously not searching for the right thing, because I cannot find it.

Anyways, a friend of mine is going to send me another board soon from a scrap machine.

I will report back with the results.

I am certain the board is bad as one of the chips is physically damaged. If you didn't get around to reading my last post from where this started it is here and I circled the bad component.

[habik]

Re: Bizhub c650 Image Shift REYB/PH PWB-J

Curious. What is the bulletin number--I am obviously not searching for the right thing, because I cannot find it.

Anyways, a friend of mine is going to send me another board soon from a scrap machine.

I will report back with the results.

I am certain the board is bad as one of the chips is physically damaged. If you didn't get around to reading my last post from where this started it is here and I circled the bad component.

As I said, I was screening through some bulletins and this one is related to firmware update for C364e series :see below:
Program Release Information
CSES ID-No. DLBT1321025EN
Model: bizhub C364e/C284e/C224e
MFP firmware Ver.GD1-A9
and voila under point 15, "15. Image shift may occur if the main power switch is turned ON while the front door of FS-534 is opened."

I repeat this has "nothing" to do with c650 . it is just interesting that shift of image was in a sequence with jam and reboot that's all and when I was reading it, hmm this rings a bell and so I posted it. Despite the fact that you have eliminated the issue and solved the problem. I was more curious what have caused it

[Synaux]

Re: Bizhub c650 Image Shift REYB/PH PWB-J

Yea, I wanted to put the info in with my notes for the c364e.
One day I might need it

As far as the cause, I am going to check the voltages to the old board before installing the other one as a precaution.
However, other than that, there is not much else to do that I can think of other than hope it was simply an evil board.

[habik]

Re: Bizhub c650 Image Shift REYB/PH PWB-J

Yea, I wanted to put the info in with my notes for the c364e.
One day I might need it

As far as the cause, I am going to check the voltages to the old board before installing the other one as a precaution.
However, other than that, there is not much else to do that I can think of other than hope it was simply an evil board.

Is it not by any chance this ic5 Toshiba IC5 on PWB-J Relay board for PH unit C650.pdf ?

It may be, that you have misread the IC number on the chip. I also had no luck with Google, I did however had luck with 62308 which to me has characteristics of a driver that can handle the motors /fans on PH Unit but before even considering to put a new driver back on board I WOULD check the fans connected to the relay board. Unless you have blown the fans with compressed gas to get the gunk out and it created negative EMF and tickled the IC5 which ended with a IC5 with not enough sunscreen


TG ?? or TD (Toshiba Digital)
63208 ?? or 62308 - 4CH LOW INPUT ACTIVE HIGH-CURRENT DARLINGTON SINK DRIVER
APG (Array Pin Grid) or just AP (Array Pin)

Let me know what do you think? And if possible and out of curiosity, can you take a closer shot of that IC5 ?

[Synaux]

Re: Bizhub c650 Image Shift REYB/PH PWB-J

Is it not by any chance this ic5 Toshiba IC5 on PWB-J Relay board for PH unit C650.pdf ?

It may be, that you have misread the IC number on the chip. I also had no luck with Google, I did however had luck with 62308 which to me has characteristics of a driver that can handle the motors /fans on PH Unit but before even considering to put a new driver back on board I WOULD check the fans connected to the relay board. Unless you have blown the fans with compressed gas to get the gunk out and it created negative EMF and tickled the IC5 which ended with a IC5 with not enough sunscreen


TG ?? or TD (Toshiba Digital)
63208 ?? or 62308 - 4CH LOW INPUT ACTIVE HIGH-CURRENT DARLINGTON SINK DRIVER
APG (Array Pin Grid) or just AP (Array Pin)

Let me know what do you think? And if possible and out of curiosity, can you take a closer shot of that IC5 ?

Habik, that is some impressive detective work being that I slaughtered the number for the IC5.

"This IC does not include built-in protection circuits for excess current or overvoltage." Might explain things a bit.

It is actually TD62308APG...
I found it here for a little over a dollar! Assuming the site is legit I think its worth a shot.

In short, I pretty much gave up on this, your direction definitely got be back on course. (Now if I can just do this without burning myself or the carpet with the soldering iron things will be great!)

[habik]

Glad to hear you giving it a 2nd chance. I would check any other components around the ic5! Just in case, since it came out as bacon out of the oven! Good luck and let us know the out come!


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[habik]

I wonder if there would be a way to make protection for the ic5 as suggested in the spec sheet. And possibly get rid off the P14 that way ?


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[Synaux]

Re: Bizhub c650 Image Shift REYB/PH PWB-J

I wonder if there would be a way to make protection for the ic5 as suggested in the spec sheet. And possibly get rid off the P14 that way ?


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If there is, I don't know how...

Bad news:
I got around to installing a new board into the culprit machine. It immediately burned up the board (a very slight snapping sound then a slight electronics burning smell around the stabilization stage upon boot). However, this time there is no visible damage to any of the IC5 chips.

I immediately turned it off, but I am almost certain the damage has be done.

Initially, I tested the voltages for the main power in (the only thing that I can think of to to test in an operational environment). The voltages were +.4 on the 5v lead (yellow) and +.4 on the 24v line (red).

I figured this would be okay. Someone with more electrical knowledge please advise...
^
My methodology was sloppy at best:
I tested this with the old board first....lamentably, I merely tested this after the machine was fully booted and not concurrently during the entire start-up process to test for a spike (which would require 2x meters--and someone without ADD [lol] which I was ill-prepared for and didn't think of in the first place).

Regardless, can anyone suggest a root to this issue other than than the power PCB?

Feeling defeated and about to condign this machine to a cold oblivion of the spare parts realm.

[habik]

Re: Bizhub c650 Image Shift REYB/PH PWB-J

If there is, I don't know how...

Bad news:
I got around to installing a new board into the culprit machine. It immediately burned up the board (a very slight snapping sound then a slight electronics burning smell around the stabilization stage upon boot). However, this time there is no visible damage to any of the IC5 chips.

I immediately turned it off, but I am almost certain the damage has be done.

Initially, I tested the voltages for the main power in (the only thing that I can think of to to test in an operational environment). The voltages were +.4 on the 5v lead (yellow) and +.4 on the 24v line (red).

I figured this would be okay. Someone with more electrical knowledge please advise...
^
My methodology was sloppy at best:
I tested this with the old board first....lamentably, I merely tested this after the machine was fully booted and not concurrently during the entire start-up process to test for a spike (which would require 2x meters--and someone without ADD [lol] which I was ill-prepared for and didn't think of in the first place).

Regardless, can anyone suggest a root to this issue other than than the power PCB?

Feeling defeated and about to condign this machine to a cold oblivion of the spare parts realm.

Hmm... If power supply is not supplying 24V or 5V you'll get response from MFPWB that something isn't right a probably C-Code.

You have put another PH PWB board in which burned off but you were able to replicate the issue with the initial first PH PWB in different machine.

So my question now is: What is drawing the voltage down from 24V to 0.4V or is it just anomaly of 24+0.4V which is OK?

I'd imagine when machine is stabilising the PH unit drives the motors to establish synced and good quality image across as a compensation from the IDC Front and Back. Is there any obstruction inside the PH UNIT ? lack of movement of mechanical parts? Might be a bad motor inside the PH Unit does few steps and gets stuck increasing the resistance in coils going the board to pop instead of throwing Code. although I think it is unlikeliy..but who knows Have you had it opened?


Any shorts of 24V or 5 V before you place the board in.. how about the PH PWB fan...isn't that one shorting?

[Synaux]

Re: Bizhub c650 Image Shift REYB/PH PWB-J

Hmm... If power supply is not supplying 24V or 5V you'll get response from MFPWB that something isn't right a probably C-Code.

You have put another PH PWB board in which burned off but you were able to replicate the issue with the initial first PH PWB in different machine.

So my question now is: What is drawing the voltage down from 24V to 0.4V or is it just anomaly of 24+0.4V which is OK?

I apologize, I did not explain it very well. Its was reading 24.4v (a positive 0.4+- value instead of 24v).

I'd imagine when machine is stabilising the PH unit drives the motors to establish synced and good quality image across as a compensation from the IDC Front and Back. Is there any obstruction inside the PH UNIT ? lack of movement of mechanical parts? Might be a bad motor inside the PH Unit does few steps and gets stuck increasing the resistance in coils going the board to pop instead of throwing Code. although I think it is unlikeliy..but who knows Have you had it opened?

Well, I know that the PH is a non-servicable unit so I have not opened it. I can say I could perform the skew adjustment reset that runs the PH motor if I am not mistaken--I can hear it hum.

Any shorts of 24V or 5 V before you place the board in.. how about the PH PWB fan...isn't that one shorting?

I checked for shorts and don't see anything (yet). The fan in question was actually the IU cooling fan, but it was simply jammed and has been operational.
FYI, it does connect directly to the PH board. PH fan is operational.

By the way, it did fry another IC5 chip...I didnt see it before. This time the middle chip instead of the bottom chip on the original board.

This might mean I can try to restore one board and give it another shot in a working machine and go from there.