Copier Purchase

[Guest]

We are looking at a replacment for our Canon IR 7086 copier. The finalists are the Sharp MX1100 and the Oce' 4110/4120. We complete 400,000 copies per month 8.5x11 8.5x14 usually duplex. The Oce' seems like a much better machine from a user standpoint as well it seems better built. Any feedback would be helpful!

Thanks in advance !

[Colour Engineer]

Re: Copier Purchase

Go for the Oce machine, it will last longer then the others & it won`t break down as much as the other ones will.

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

Re: Copier Purchase

I'll second that.

Other thoughts: if you have an in house technician, the sharp should be revisited...if not go for oce.

[Hemlock]

Re: Copier Purchase

From an engine standpoint, the Oce' would be my pick. If you have a damn good tech, it's a beautiful thing. The finishing options, however, leave much to be desired. All things considered, go with Sharp. Here's why -

(full disclosure: I worked on the Oce' 6250, the 250-300 ppm machine. 4110 is same box scaled down some)

Tech cost; you're locked in with Oce' and whatever they want to charge (unless you get one of the very few dealers they authorize). This is a biggie. Most copiers you can likely find a tech who, even if he doesn't know the exacts on a machine, can figure it out. He can hit up Google to find out how to get into service/tech rep mode and reset errors/counters, et cetera. Probably even find part numbers online for replacements or consumables. Not so with Oce', they have the whole process locked down. The tech will have to have Factory authorization just to view the manuals. They'll need a laptop with Lotus Notes to view said manuals and parts lists. They'll also need that laptop along with a valid sds license to run simulations (test motors/sensors) and reset counters/errors. You aren't going to be able to just call the local copier shop. Because of this, reselling the machine (if you own it outright) is next to impossible.

The start up and shut down procedure is 6 minutes from moderately warm up to 15 minutes if the machine is dead cold (iirc, it's been a while since I've touched one of these). Now, quite a few of the repair procedures require the machine to cool all the way down or come back up from dead. You're gonna pay an awful lot if you're on a charge per call basis.

Unless they've modded it since I last took a screwdriver to one, the trays won't hold landscape letter or legal. It all goes portrait. Fine and dandy, until you need a booklet made on the plockmatic bookmaker (if they offer it on the 4110). You have to have a rotator that, just like the name implies, physically spins the paper 90 degrees by pinching a corner and driving it with belts. Took handfuls and handfuls of Excedrin until I figured this beast out.

Again, unless they changed things, it sits on feet rather than wheels. Need to move it for any reason? Tough sh1t. (Edit: 4110 may have wheels, 6250 was immobile)

Now, if you're using preprinted in one of the trays, your users *will* forget to configure the preprint tray properly and run it through the process section. The heat on the preheat plate *will* melt off the ink and deposit it on the plate. This *will* slow down every subsequent sheet and the DC motors that handle paper registration will kill themselves trying to compensate for the slowdown. Added bonus - this reg motor failure won't show until you're 4k-5k sheets into a job. Take it apart to check it out and it cools enough to run well for another 4k-5k sheets before slipping again. Many, many handfuls of Excedrin on that one as well.

Freakin' noisy beasts.

We went from an Oce' shop to Ricoh about a year and a half ago (in house for an education center, not print for pay). Had a 6250, 2090 and a couple Oce Venlo color boxes that you can read about here (just scroll down to my username). Love, love, love our new 1107, 1357 and ProC900. Incredibly quiet and very low maintenance.

[rockin57rod]

Re: Copier Purchase

if you have the money go for the Oce' .....mind you the cost per print is going to hit you hard.
if you want something more reasonable....look at a good used docu print

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

Re: Copier Purchase

Good posts Hemlock and RockinRod.

It looks like you're going to need to decide on what's most important...are you leasing or buying, do you care about options on who will service the machine or are you going to service it yourself.

If you're leasing and have a cost per copy type program, then who cares the whole time is on the dealer or manufacturer and realistically the ricoh, oce, or a docutech or docuprint should handle your volume; actually a canon device should too.

If you're looking to own, service yourself, or have the flexibility to pick a different service provider, or get resale value out of your machine then you might want to head what Hemlock says. A canon Imagerunner will probably have a higher resale value especially if it's a pretty new model.

Just curious, was there a problem with service or price in your area that a Canon wasn't reconsidered? Ever consider a Kodak or Heidelberg digimaster? Just some extra thoughts for you to think about.

Footnote: I have no particular loyalty to a specific brand but the mainstream brands like Canon, Ricoh, KM/KM have more parts availability and a surplus of machines and supplies. But again, if you're leasing, doesn't matter much.