[Misc] HDD Replacement - Any Model

[zames77]

Just wondering, cost aside, anyone tried fitting a SSHD yet?

[KenB]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

Assuming that this would be in an effort to increase speed, I can't imagine a SSHD making any sort of difference, if it even works at all.

The parts that make an MFP slow or fast usually have nothing to do with the HDD.

[subaro]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

Assuming that this would be in an effort to increase speed, I can't imagine a SSHD making any sort of difference, if it even works at all.

The parts that make an MFP slow or fast usually have nothing to do with the HDD.

While the above maybe so, the conventional hdd still works by mechanical disk head movement and is a weak point, though is has be for the most part reliable. The SSD are entirely electronic switches that can fail like any computer circuit, but is more robust and can withstand shock ect. Failures in hdd can be caused by vibration and sudden shock that causes the read/write head to produce outright failure and intermittent problem, which sometimes sends a tech on a journey of discovery. So IMO, the SSD is a welcome introduction . The newer laptops and ipads used them and they can be banged around unlike a normal laptop.

Below is a quote from one manufacturer introduction model lineup.
The Standard 8GB SSD is used for improved response time from Warm-up and Recovery from Sleep.
There is no Fax System Memory Option. The Fax System uses 170MB of the 8GB SSD for page storage, etc. Memory Reception supports 7,000 sheets or more.

[Polarbear]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

I'm with Subaro here.

Hp has been fitting SSD to even their small desktop printers, for some time now. Some as small as 8GB - complete with SSD cables!

It is definitely more robust.

[rthonpm]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

There's one major issue with using SSD's that I can see: SSD's still have a smaller write life compared to standard HDD's. With most copiers doing multiple writes and erases in a single day, you run the risk of having a shorter lifetime for the device. There's also the fact that while desktop and server operating systems can use features such as TRIM to better manage SSD's, you're likely not going to find that kind of feature in an MFP's embedded OS (generally some flavour of NetBSD) that's likely optimised for managing a traditional spinning disk. The drive is their for storage as opposed to launching an operating system so you're really not gaining any kind of performance or reducing latency in making the change.

Think of it this way: it's no different than a desktop PC that needs a large amount of storage: you're going to install an SSD for the operating system and use spinning rust for your bulk storage. In MFP terms, the operating system is already on flash memory on the system board, so the drive is just being used as a swap and scratch location.

[sturmtrooper]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

Putting and SSD in a copier seems like putting lipstick on a pig.

[DRichard]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

Putting and SSD in a copier seems like putting lipstick on a pig.

Damn! Are we STILL making Sarah Palin jokes?!

[zames77]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

The reason I ask is I visited a building site yesterday and had to replace the HDD, at the customers cost. Building dust had contaminated the platter, he was non too pleased as it's the second replacement this year. He asked about the SSHD, which in terms of environmental conditions causing failures is a sound idea. Initial cost vs a few replacements a year weighed against the potential read write thrashing issue, might turn out to be a completely pointless exercise.

Cheers for the input guys. I might give it whirl and feed back any interesting findings.

[sturmtrooper]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

The reason I ask is I visited a building site yesterday and had to replace the HDD, at the customers cost. Building dust had contaminated the platter, he was non too pleased as it's the second replacement this year. He asked about the SSHD, which in terms of environmental conditions causing failures is a sound idea. Initial cost vs a few replacements a year weighed against the potential read write thrashing issue, might turn out to be a completely pointless exercise.

Cheers for the input guys. I might give it whirl and feed back any interesting findings.

Interesting. We've got some units it very dusty places, a metal fab shop, office next to a sawmill, and a car scarpyard. Haven't had that kill an HDD yet.

In your situation an SSD may make sense. See if you can find one that automatically does wear leveling and it might last a few years. Even if only last two years the customer probably comes out ahead price wise.

[slimslob]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

The reason I ask is I visited a building site yesterday and had to replace the HDD, at the customers cost. Building dust had contaminated the platter, he was non too pleased as it's the second replacement this year. He asked about the SSHD, which in terms of environmental conditions causing failures is a sound idea. Initial cost vs a few replacements a year weighed against the potential read write thrashing issue, might turn out to be a completely pointless exercise.

Cheers for the input guys. I might give it whirl and feed back any interesting findings.

Did you contact Ricoh and ask for engineering help? Also, check with HDD manufacturers to see if their disk are hermetically sealed. Unless you are purchasing used drives, most have a manufacturer's warranty of 3 to 5 years. If i t is under warranty, the customer should not have to pay again, other than labor.

[NeoMatrix]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

Did you contact Ricoh and ask for engineering help? Also, check with HDD manufacturers to see if their disk are hermetically sealed. Unless you are purchasing used drives, most have a manufacturer's warranty of 3 to 5 years. If i t is under warranty, the customer should not have to pay again, other than labor.

Most platun HDD's have a small vacuum pressure release hole in the top of the HDD metal case.
The hole is located in line with the label that says "Do not cover this hole."
Given an extremely dusty enviroment I believe dirt could find it's way inside the HDD unit.

The HDD I have in my hand ATM also says "Warranty will be void if this unit experiences a shock greater than 350g's".
A platun HDD can take a serious bump before they give up. I've witness first hand an angry bloke round house punch a portable video camera another person was filming with. My first thought was the HDD is gone in the camera for sure. I believe the video camera works fine to this day.

Re: Which is better, SSD v's HDD.
The jury is out for me, I don't have enough feed back to tell one way or the other.
It's a point of read/write reliability verses data access speed. It's horses for coarses in some cases.
I will put that question to the computer Techs next time I run into them.

[subaro]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

The reason I ask is I visited a building site yesterday and had to replace the HDD, at the customers cost. Building dust had contaminated the platter, he was non too pleased as it's the second replacement this year. He asked about the SSHD, which in terms of environmental conditions causing failures is a sound idea. Initial cost vs a few replacements a year weighed against the potential read write thrashing issue, might turn out to be a completely pointless exercise.

Cheers for the input guys. I might give it whirl and feed back any interesting findings.

When you say contamination of the platter, could you explain a bit futher or if you have a pic, upload it. I have open plenty of hdd and never seen one with contamination, it's either the drive controller failed or damage to the disk surface. There are still a lot of techs and customers who don't know that the copier shoud not be moved, shifted, push ect. while on. This is the cause of a lot of hdd failures as the hdd head scratches the surface and cause bad sectors and premature failure.
The only thing preventing ssd to be used on copiers today are the cost. kyocera already has optional slots on some of the smaller mfp that are for ssd cards and their new line up also is in incorporating them as options for job storage ect. Buy a drive like the one below and experiment at your shop machine, it's cheap enough

Kingston HyperX Savage SSD 240GB 7mm 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Drive(SSD), Read: 560MB/s Write: 530MB/s (SHSS37A/240G)

Our Price $116.99

[zames77]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

[QUOTE=subaro;530324]When you say contamination of the platter, could you explain a bit futher or if you have a pic, upload it. I have open plenty of hdd and never seen one with contamination, it's either the drive controller failed or damage to the disk surface. There are still a lot of techs and customers who don't know that the copier shoud not be moved, shifted, push ect. while on. This is the cause of a lot of hdd failures as the hdd head scratches the surface and cause bad sectors and premature failure.
The only thing preventing ssd to be used on copiers today are the cost. kyocera already has optional slots on some of the smaller mfp that are for ssd cards and their new line up also is in incorporating them as options for job storage ect. Buy a drive like the one below and experiment at your shop machine, it's cheap enough

The machine is sat in a container which they use as the site office. It's filthy, building dust covers everything. I opened the back of the machine up, it was covered in thick ust. The HDD was covered. When I got back to the shop and split it open, there was a coating of dust laying on the top platter. I'll upload some pictures tomorrow when I get back to the office.

[subaro]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

[QUOTE=zames77;530391]

When you say contamination of the platter, could you explain a bit futher or if you have a pic, upload it. I have open plenty of hdd and never seen one with contamination, it's either the drive controller failed or damage to the disk surface. There are still a lot of techs and customers who don't know that the copier shoud not be moved, shifted, push ect. while on. This is the cause of a lot of hdd failures as the hdd head scratches the surface and cause bad sectors and premature failure.
The only thing preventing ssd to be used on copiers today are the cost. kyocera already has optional slots on some of the smaller mfp that are for ssd cards and their new line up also is in incorporating them as options for job storage ect. Buy a drive like the one below and experiment at your shop machine, it's cheap enough

The machine is sat in a container which they use as the site office. It's filthy, building dust covers everything. I opened the back of the machine up, it was covered in thick ust. The HDD was covered. When I got back to the shop and split it open, there was a coating of dust laying on the top platter. I'll upload some pictures tomorrow when I get back to the office.

Thanks for the reply. What you have described there is typical of some of our installations. We have machines in cement plants and i am amazed that those machines still work when they come back to the shop. Your salesman has to be the one to come to a resolution about drive replacement cost ect. Some techs will not work on machine with those conditions.

[sturmtrooper]

Re: HDD Replacement - Any Model

[QUOTE=zames77;530391]

When you say contamination of the platter, could you explain a bit futher or if you have a pic, upload it. I have open plenty of hdd and never seen one with contamination, it's either the drive controller failed or damage to the disk surface. There are still a lot of techs and customers who don't know that the copier shoud not be moved, shifted, push ect. while on. This is the cause of a lot of hdd failures as the hdd head scratches the surface and cause bad sectors and premature failure.
The only thing preventing ssd to be used on copiers today are the cost. kyocera already has optional slots on some of the smaller mfp that are for ssd cards and their new line up also is in incorporating them as options for job storage ect. Buy a drive like the one below and experiment at your shop machine, it's cheap enough

The machine is sat in a container which they use as the site office. It's filthy, building dust covers everything. I opened the back of the machine up, it was covered in thick ust. The HDD was covered. When I got back to the shop and split it open, there was a coating of dust laying on the top platter. I'll upload some pictures tomorrow when I get back to the office.

I hope your contract cost takes into account the hideous conditions that machine is in lol.