Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

[Klydon]

So I posted a couple of days ago and screwed up by ending the title in "print" and it screwed the whole thread up.

For those that didn't see it, I had posted a question about trying to figure out why a MP C3003 might be putting yellow blotches on the paper across the center (paper feed direction). Developer is clearly on the paper as well and if you check, the yellow PCDU has developer sitting on top of it on the left hand side above the developer unit. The transport belt drags it across the other PCDU's as well. I have had this situation once and replaced the entire yellow PCDU which seemed to fix the issue. (That was over 6 months ago and have heard nothing from that machine). I had two do it in two days so I replaced the yellow PCDU again on both machines. Except it didn't fix it this time. Originally, I thought developer was spewing up on the top of the development unit through the slit where you pull the mylar out for a new developer unit so I taped across the middle of it. That has appeared to fix one of them as I have not heard back on it, but have not had a chance to go check it. In all cases, I had wound up replacing the yellow PCDU because the drum surface was just heavily worn and grooved.

The last machine did the immediate blotching again. I did some other research including posting here and found a tid bit someplace about the transfer unit. Another tech and I went out to visit the machine and sure enough we found an issue with the ITB unit.

The issue is the metal roller on the left hand side (the roller right before the yellow PCD) was totally seized up. When we turned the belt by hand, it would still turn however and the belt would just slip over the roller. The issue is that roller is on a pivot point like the transfer rollers above each PCDU. When you manually actuate the rollers to drop down for when a color print is made, they all work and this metal roller also drops down as well. The issue is that with it not turning and the belt sliding over the top, the belt forces it even lower. This causes the belt to drag across the top of the yellow PCDU and be in contact with the top of it. This is too close and the transfer roller is also too close above the yellow PCDU. This causes too much pull to the belt and apparently drags developer out of the PCDU instead of just drawing the toner across to the belt. We took the roller out, cleaned the bushings and lubed them and put it all back together. Machine ran fine after that.

According to the person who posted the tidbit of information, they have had to do this a couple of times.

At any rate, I apologize for the screw up on the other post and hopefully this information comes in handy for someone in the future.

[slimslob]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

Dirty charge roller. Excessive wear on the lube bar.

[Klydon]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

Dirty charge roller. Excessive wear on the lube bar.

Are you referring to why the yellow drum had heavy wear on it or other possible explanations behind the yellow blotching?

The drum I replaced had 124K on it, which is nothing for a 3 series color drum. It also doesn't explain why the machine continued with the yellow blotching with developer on the paper even after I replaced the entire PCDU.

What I need to do is get back and visit the other machine I was having issues with and check it out. When I ever get a chance to do that, I will and then also report my findings here as well.

[Klydon]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

Somewhat sorry for digging this thread up, but considering I have had a lot of ITB unit issues the last 2 weeks, maybe it is appropriate. Thanks Sandmanmac for the likes on this one to get my attention back to it.

The second machine was fixed by cleaning and lubing the idler roller bushings.

I have had this issue crop up a fair amount this past year with these ITB units as they get older. The symptoms can be quite broad and yet the issue is the same with the idler roller to the left of the yellow transfer roller. Machines will exhibit some of the symptoms below in addition to the blotching mentioned above with the original issue, but it can vary from machine to machine and also depend on if the roller is totally locked up or just hard to turn.

Intermittently noisy (squeeks from the left side), be noisy most of the time, have a yellow haze across the print or yellow blotches in certain parts of the print, go through a bottle of yellow toner every 5 days, etc. If you pull the ITB unit out and look at the tops of the PCU's and have yellow going across them, then that roller is suspect.

[mga]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

Somewhat sorry for digging this thread up, but considering I have had a lot of ITB unit issues the last 2 weeks, maybe it is appropriate. Thanks Sandmanmac for the likes on this one to get my attention back to it.

The second machine was fixed by cleaning and lubing the idler roller bushings.

I have had this issue crop up a fair amount this past year with these ITB units as they get older. The symptoms can be quite broad and yet the issue is the same with the idler roller to the left of the yellow transfer roller. Machines will exhibit some of the symptoms below in addition to the blotching mentioned above with the original issue, but it can vary from machine to machine and also depend on if the roller is totally locked up or just hard to turn.

Intermittently noisy (squeeks from the left side), be noisy most of the time, have a yellow haze across the print or yellow blotches in certain parts of the print, go through a bottle of yellow toner every 5 days, etc. If you pull the ITB unit out and look at the tops of the PCU's and have yellow going across them, then that roller is suspect.

replace with NEW dev assy

[sandmanmac]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

Somewhat sorry for digging this thread up, but considering I have had a lot of ITB unit issues the last 2 weeks, maybe it is appropriate. Thanks Sandmanmac for the likes on this one to get my attention back to it.

You're welcome! Thank you for posting it in the first place.
Customer showed me a couple of samples a few days ago, but machine was working fine when arrived, so I told them to let me know if/when it came back, which it did a couple of days later.
I'd never seen an issue quite like it before, and had no idea what would cause it at the time.
I did a quick google search, and your post couldn't have described the symptoms of their issue any better.
Sure enough, the roller was seized up completely to where I could just barely turn it.
Saved a bunch of time (and money) for both me and the customer!

[fshead]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

Somewhat sorry for digging this thread up, but considering I have had a lot of ITB unit issues the last 2 weeks, maybe it is appropriate. Thanks Sandmanmac for the likes on this one to get my attention back to it.

The second machine was fixed by cleaning and lubing the idler roller bushings.

I have had this issue crop up a fair amount this past year with these ITB units as they get older. The symptoms can be quite broad and yet the issue is the same with the idler roller to the left of the yellow transfer roller. Machines will exhibit some of the symptoms below in addition to the blotching mentioned above with the original issue, but it can vary from machine to machine and also depend on if the roller is totally locked up or just hard to turn.

Intermittently noisy (squeeks from the left side), be noisy most of the time, have a yellow haze across the print or yellow blotches in certain parts of the print, go through a bottle of yellow toner every 5 days, etc. If you pull the ITB unit out and look at the tops of the PCU's and have yellow going across them, then that roller is suspect.

AS a rule when i get any dirty 03 units even with low count i pull drums,ITB unit and pull the cleaning unit too.
It is amazing the crap that you will find,dog/cat hair,small pieces of paper and just dirt..
When doing that i always blow out and clean/separate that foam roller and ck all bearings etc..
If i think cleaning unit is beat up i just pop in a new one..too much to lose with a dirty beat up unit...
still think these are a SOLID BOX..

[cadillac2]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

You're welcome! Thank you for posting it in the first place.
Customer showed me a couple of samples a few days ago, but machine was working fine when arrived, so I told them to let me know if/when it came back, which it did a couple of days later.
I'd never seen an issue quite like it before, and had no idea what would cause it at the time.
I did a quick google search, and your post couldn't have described the symptoms of their issue any better.
Sure enough, the roller was seized up completely to where I could just barely turn it.
Saved a bunch of time (and money) for both me and the customer!

could it be that the seizing of the idler roller is somehow caused by a worn out ITB cleaning units? They are good for 300k, but as you know, changing them is a little more involved on the 03's, compared to older models - so maybe they are getting skipped here and there?

[Klydon]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

could it be that the seizing of the idler roller is somehow caused by a worn out ITB cleaning units? They are good for 300k, but as you know, changing them is a little more involved on the 03's, compared to older models - so maybe they are getting skipped here and there?

I don't believe the age/count of the cleaning unit matters in terms of this particular roller having issues.

The bushings are rusted a lot of times and there isn't really any lube/grease that I see in there on the ones I have taken out and fixed. I do clean them out and the early ones I was using a thin lube, but I am of a mind now that a grease may work better long term. Either way, they need some form of lube. The copy count on all of them varied from a lot (500K plus and more) to not very much (200K, but is 4+ years old, etc).

All these machines I have had issues with are in fairly good environments (offices, etc).

As far as the cleaning unit life goes, it is rare I change them out. Clean them out is another matter, especially on machines that do a lot of color fill. That is one of the things I try to check on most every calls on my machines that have a lot of fill. (you can do this by seeing how hard it is to turn the auger shaft on the cleaning unit. If it is harder to turn, then that means it is packed and needs to be cleaned out). I have cleaning units that have gone double yield easy with no issues and not had the roller issue either.

[Polarbear]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

Hi all

you guys are lucky that the seized roller shaft did not cause the belt to snap. I have had that before.

We could not understand what broke the belt until i discovered the seized shaft...

[FrohnB]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

That roller you are talking about that you said you removed, cleaned bushings, and lubed and then reassembled, will come back to haunt you sooner rather than later.
We have found those bushings get so "egged out" that they NEED to be replaced. You'll be back for squeaking or Yellow Dev. pulling.
D2416346 and D2416347 are the P/N's for those bushings. Pretty cheap and easy to install, and will keep you from making an early return trip.

[Zeldaman]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

H ithere!
Found this, maybe it helps.
Greetings...

[Klydon]

Re: Yellow blotches from a MP C3003 revisited

That roller you are talking about that you said you removed, cleaned bushings, and lubed and then reassembled, will come back to haunt you sooner rather than later.
We have found those bushings get so "egged out" that they NEED to be replaced. You'll be back for squeaking or Yellow Dev. pulling.
D2416346 and D2416347 are the P/N's for those bushings. Pretty cheap and easy to install, and will keep you from making an early return trip.

Actually, this thread was started over a year ago. The two machines I initially discussed have been fine with no additional work needed to the ITB units so they have been fine for over a year now. I have had others since and have not had to return to any of them so far for repeat issues. I do know some of my compatriots have replaced rollers and the arm assemblies (bushings come with those) because in one case, the bushings got so hot, they deformed the plastic on the arms.

I don't disagree that there could be issues, which is why I went from using a thin lube to using grease, although that was just recently. A lot of my 3 series machines that I work on are coming up on end of lease, so I expect them to be gone in 3-6 months. Given that, my attitude has changed a bit on what I would do with a machine that I expect to remain in the field for another 1+ years and one that is going away in the next 30-45 days.

@Zeldaman I am familiar with that bulletin, but have never seen it be an issue in terms of what they describe. If I have blotches of developer across a page, it is because of ITB unit issues. When this first started, I had a couple I fixed by replacing the yellow devo unit, but I finally got one that I put a new yellow devo unit in it and it immediately did the same thing (basically covered in my OP). Some of the earlier machines I replaced the yellow dev unit in, I got calls on later (after I did the OP) and knew to look at the ITB unit. The other key is to look at what shape the PCU is in for its age. We have seen yellow PCU's under 120k that look like they have 400k on them because of the belt dragging across the top of them. Very worn and grooved.