Printing on label paper multiple times

[JayPaul]

Hi all, I have a customer, a low volume MPC 3002. I found out yesterday that they are running label paper through the bypass which is set to Thick 3. There are 14 labels per A4 sheet. She prints off addresses, one by one as the day goes on.
So that same sheet of label paper goes through the machine 14 times. Even though the label paper itself is not that thick, they also put some thick conqueror paper through it which does need it to be set to Thick 3.
It can't go in the trays as all 4 are set for different types of paper with varying thickness. Fuser has only done about 42k and in good condition. Naturally the customer said 'this is how we have always done it and it has never been a problem before' The problem being it now has creases up the page after about 5 runs through and then eventually jams and crumples up so they waste the last few labels.
If I had the choice I would set it to it's own tray/settings and create a 'One click preset' in the driver for them but as all trays are being used up, the only way that would work is them keep changing the settings on the copier multiple times a day which they aren't in favour of.
My main question is when you guys get customers who try running the same label paper though 10+ times what is your procedure? Do you tell them not to, do you try and put it on certain settings like Label paper - Middle Thick so it can survive that many times or do you do something else?
Environment conditions are good as well, I don't think paper dampness is to blame (as the creases look just like those on damp paper)

[TonerMunkeh]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

The customer would be best off printing a full sheet of the same label and taking one off when they need it. If you run a sheet of labels through a laser machine, it weakens the adhesive. If they want to print one label at a time, they need an inkjet.

[davel]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

Charge the hell out of them every time a label gets stuck inside or you have to clean up sticky residue off guides.

[JayPaul]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

They can't print off a full sheet. It is some financial work so I think she does 1 client and prints off their address or something, does something else to close that job and then say 3 hours later does another clients finances, prints off their address on another label. Sometimes it is 6 clients in a day sometimes it is 1 client over 2 days.
Surprisingly as well, there is no sticky residue in the machine at all and never been called out for a label that has come loose and got stuck on something. I was unaware they even printed labels because of this.
So the option of telling her just print all 14 labels at the same time is impossible. I can't put labels in a different tray and change settings. I am genuinely surprised they have been doing this for years and never had a problem until now.
Inkjet would definitely be a superior option but as I say they have been using the Ricoh for years and apparantly I think an MPC 4000 before that for years as well without problem, they just see it as there is now a problem with the MPC 3002 that needs to be fixed and it looks like I'm trying to talk my way out of it by coming up with different thingsto try.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

The customer is being cheap. Tell them to buy a label printer designed for such work. If the labels have to last a long time, they need a thermal transfer label printer using a carbon film ribbon such as in this video.

YouTube

Less than a $500.00 many year solution.

Copiers are definitely not designed to resend the same sheet of peal off labels multi times through the bypass without consequence.

Probably somewhere in the User Guide on this copier it states the same.

Further call backs on this issue should be billable.

[zed255]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

As with others, we don't support running label sheets through multiple times.

If a customer is found to be running label sheets through multiple times they get a little education. If that process caused a service call they usually get ONE free ride and re-education. After that we go billable on damaged parts (prorated) and labour.

As with any customers' application, if it's out of specification it isn't supported, no matter how long they have 'gotten away with it'.

That said, make sure there is no build up on the fuser entrance guides, especially a small ridge right on the edge. You can also put the moveable guide into the 'alternate' position to see if that helps.

[JDYAL]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

We have a customer that was doing the same thing however in our case we have had 4 calls where the labels came off in the machine. The first label didn't make it far just stuck to the PTR. The second and third label stuck to the ITB. The last straw for us was when it made it to the fuser and destroyed a fusing sleeve. We instructed the user that any attempt at re-running labels through the machine would result in cancellation of the service contract and reimbursing our company for parts and time. They now have an inkjet for labels. This was on a brand new MPC 2004.

[JayPaul]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

I'm still suprised they managed to do it on their old machine for at least 3 years and then on a newer machine for the last 4 years without a single label coming off and sticking inside the machine.
Usually on those call outs we fix it first time and tell them about paper settings etc and don't do it again, if we get called out again it is chargeable. Only 1 year left on the contract I may push this to sales for upgrade and see if they can throw in an inkjet as well.
Reminds me of the classic 'but our old machine could do it' when you replace it.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

Inkjet labels are not permanent and will fade over time, maybe six months. Much less if exposed to direct sunlight.

The correct solution depends on what the customers expectation is for the "shelf" life of the label.

They are used to a toner based solution lasting a long time.

[driving lots of miles]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

It could also be that the manufacturer of the labels have made an "upgrade" to the label itself or the backing or the manufacturing process still using the same numbers and packaging.

[mikadonovan]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

Sounds like she needs a Dymo label printer.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

Sounds like she needs a Dymo label printer.

Dymo label printers use Direct Thermal print technology that basically heats very small pins in the printhead to turn dots on chemically coated paper black.

The image will last approx six months to a year before it fades to illegible.

Dymo label printers are relatively inexpensive to acquire but the special label paper is expensive to operate.

The correct label printer depends on the customers application.

[Phil B.]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

Avery Labels has it on their package " do not run sheets through multiple times. "

most customers don't understand the difference between " Inkjet " and " Laser " labels.

Inkjet will: wick oil from the fuser on color machines... causing jams - peels - excess glue on parts... not handle the heat of the fuser.

Laser will: not bond toner well on Inkjet labels.

I tried to instruct my customers to use a high quality Labels in their laser machines. Less glue... better bonding of toner to page.

but customers will do what they want and disregard any hints/tips they FEEL are not valid in their minds regardless of ANY/ALL warnings you show them.

we had a policy where.. we provided a sheet with all the proof - tips - hints ... they signed my copy (kept on file) and when we had a call about labels stuck in machine because they didn't adhere to the sheet they were dinged for labor and and parts required...

Many of them quickly turned their thoughts around when they got a bill for new drums/fuser/belt that had to be replaced -=IF=- we couldn't properly clean the glue/labels off.

I had created that sheet back in 2004 and carried it to my next place(s) of employ.

[Klydon]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

Running label sheets through more than once isn't tolerated. Customers are informed to run them through once and if they continue to try to run them through multiple times, they will be charged time and materials. We have simply had way too many issues with label sheets being run through machines multiple times.

Also, we do have a recommended list of labels that we make the customer aware of in case they try to go with super cheap labels that cause all sorts of issues. I am not sure if Ricoh makes that list public however. Avery is on the list of good stuff to use.

What are the labels being used for? Address for an envelope? If so, an alternate method might be to try to print envelopes from the bypass tray. This can go well at times or exceedingly bad too but it might be worth a shot in this particular case.

[JayPaul]

Re: Printing on label paper multiple times

Off the top of my head their label paper was something like Lyreco L7 163, I think.
The whole situation would have been resolved in 10 seconds if the customer said 'we have just tried putting labels through and this happened' and I could say yes that is because you aren't meant to put the same page through that many times. The problem comes from them getting unbelievably lucky for x amount of time without it happeneing.
I have pushed to sales now and there is someone arranging to speak to them about upgrading machine and us putting in something small for the labels.
I would imagine if they are using labels for addresses then they wouldn't even need to survive for 6 months, maybe 2 at the most.
1 of them actually hand writes her labels so no problem for her! As long as I am involved in the sales decision making of what to put in there we will be good.
I pretty much 99.9% knew how this post would go but I wanted to know all of your opinions and experiences about it. They are always valued.